Who and Where Are the True Christians Today?

[Witness]

On 10/24/2016 at 1:10 PM, Anna said:

There is no modern church except for Jehovah’s Witnesses’ which adhere to the same principles as the first century Christian congregations. Other Churches may have some aspects that are the same, but never ALL of them like Jehovah’s Witnesses do. Prove me wrong.

Hello Anna,

The early Christians worshiped in the “Spirit and the Truth”, without the need of any temple or “organization”.

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses?  John 4:21-24; 1 John 5:6; Rom 8:9

Early Christians taught salvation was through Jesus Christ. 

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses, or do they feel it is through an organization?  Acts 4:12

Early Christians baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses, or do they baptize in the name of an organization?  Matt 28:19

Early Christians believed in obedience to Jesus Christ and the Father; not to any man.

Is this what Jehovah’s Witnesses teach?  Gal 1:10; Acts 5:29

Early Christians taught Christ would return to the earth in the same manner as he ascended to heaven. 

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses?  Acts 1:11

Early Christians were aware that Christ, already crowned as King while on earth, began reigning as King upon his ascension into heaven.

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses?   Eph 1:19-23; Matt 28:18; Ps 110:1,2; 1 Pet 3:22; 1 Cor 15:24-27

Early Christians believed it was imperative not to be “conformed to the pattern of the world.” Rom 12:2

Can you truly say Jehovah’s Witnesses do this, when hierarchy of authority is enforced in the organization, and the building (as well as flaunting) of material riches is predominant?  Matt 4:8-10  Think of JWs in underdeveloped countries who live on the bare necessities, donating whatever they have toward building a stately headquarters to house the GB, etc…in comfort?  Matt 6:21

Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”  Mar 10:21

Truly, the organization expects the poor to give to an earthly treasure built by men.  1 Cor 7:23  This teaching principle contrasts Christ’s principle to love one’s neighbor as oneself, as well as worship in the Spirit and the Truth. Mark 12:31;James 2:8  As most are well aware, Pew Research shows 48% of Jehovah’s Witnesses live on a yearly income of $30,000 or less.  As most JWs are also well aware, the photos of real estate holdings sold off by the organization recently, were not lacking in décor or comfort; but revealed the opulence of the organization. 

Please, do not tell me this is all necessary to “preach the good news of the kingdom”, (Zech 4:6) that it is necessary for 7 men at the top of the hierarchy to live in such plush surroundings when many of their own anointed  brothers and sisters in Christ, as well as the majority of all sheep, live hand to mouth.  Eph 5:29,30

For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.  2 Cor 11:4

For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?  1 Pet 4:17

[Anna]

Oh dear. I don't really want to reply to your questions because I have already been through this several times and no matter what I say is not going to change your mind anyway. But others read this too.......(note to self: to save time, I must remember to save my replies for next time I am asked the same old questions)....

On 11/6/2016 at 1:00 PM, Witness said:

The early Christians worshiped in the “Spirit and the Truth”, without the need of any temple or “organization”. Do Jehovah’s Witnesses?  John 4:21-24; 1 John 5:6; Rom 8:9

Worshiping in spirit and truth does not negate the need for organization. Also the scriptures you cited have nothing to do with there not being a need for organization. The first century Christians were organized to accomplish their ministry. The JWs are organized to accomplish their ministry also.

 

On 11/6/2016 at 1:00 PM, Witness said:

Early Christians taught salvation was through Jesus Christ.  Do Jehovah’s Witnesses, or do they feel it is through an organization?  Acts 4:12

Acts 4:12 says it. So no, JWs do not feel it's through an organization. And please don't come back to me with quotes from the WT like "in order to survive the great tribulation we must stick to the organization". These and similar quotes are not replacing salvation being through Jesus, they are merely reminders that sticking closely together and encouraging one another will help us to remain faithful to Jesus.

On 11/6/2016 at 1:00 PM, Witness said:

Early Christians baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Do Jehovah’s Witnesses, or do they baptize in the name of an organization?  Matt 28:19

No, JWs do not baptize in the name of an organization. I don't ever remember hearing that. The second part of the question is a public affirmation that the person being baptized in the name of the Father and the son, and the holy spirit will identify themselves with Jehovah's Witnesses. Nothing unscriptural about that.

On 11/6/2016 at 1:00 PM, Witness said:

Early Christians believed in obedience to Jesus Christ and the Father; not to any man.

Is this what Jehovah’s Witnesses teach?  Gal 1:10; Acts 5:29

Yup. And don't come back to me with quotes from the WT talking about obedience to the elders and GB. No JW should ever obey anyone if they come to them with something contrary to the scriptures

 

On 11/6/2016 at 1:00 PM, Witness said:

Early Christians taught Christ would return to the earth in the same manner as he ascended to heaven. Do Jehovah’s Witnesses?  Acts 1:11

Yes. (I know already what you are going to come back to me with....)

On 11/6/2016 at 1:00 PM, Witness said:

Early Christians were aware that Christ, already crowned as King while on earth, began reigning as King upon his ascension into heaven.

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses?   Eph 1:19-23; Matt 28:18; Ps 110:1,2; 1 Pet 3:22; 1 Cor 15:24-27

Daniel 2:44

Being seated at the right hand of God does not mean he is already ruling but is king designate

On 11/6/2016 at 1:00 PM, Witness said:

Early Christians believed it was imperative not to be “conformed to the pattern of the world.” Rom 12:2

Can you truly say Jehovah’s Witnesses do this, when hierarchy of authority is enforced in the organization, and the building (as well as flaunting) of material riches is predominant?  Matt 4:8-10  Think of JWs in underdeveloped countries who live on the bare necessities, donating whatever they have toward building a stately headquarters to house the GB, etc…in comfort?  Matt 6:21

Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”  Mar 10:21

Truly, the organization expects the poor to give to an earthly treasure built by men.  1 Cor 7:23  This teaching principle contrasts Christ’s principle to love one’s neighbor as oneself, as well as worship in the Spirit and the Truth. Mark 12:31;James 2:8  As most are well aware, Pew Research shows 48% of Jehovah’s Witnesses live on a yearly income of $30,000 or less.  As most JWs are also well aware, the photos of real estate holdings sold off by the organization recently, were not lacking in décor or comfort; but revealed the opulence of the organization. 

Please, do not tell me this is all necessary to “preach the good news of the kingdom”, (Zech 4:6) that it is necessary for 7 men at the top of the hierarchy to live in such plush surroundings when many of their own anointed  brothers and sisters in Christ, as well as the majority of all sheep, live hand to mouth.  Eph 5:29,30

Riches is relative. My home, which is modest by western standards will be viewed as luxury by someone living in a mud hut in Africa. The buildings we owned were very well taken care of. As for opulence, have you ever been in a Catholic church?

Of course I will tell you all this is necessary to preach the good news of the Kingdom. How else are you going to do it? 

Let me tell you something else. I have had this discussion about this sort of thing with your buddies, and in the end they ALL admitted that the organization is not in it for the money and that the "7 men" at the "top" were not living in any more of "plush" surroundings than many other brothers and sisters. They also admitted that if those at the top were in it for the money, then they would be making sure all rank and file got a good education and job because more money for the rank and file would mean bigger contributions. Anyway, this is a ridiculous discussion as I have not seen any flaunting of material riches, merely well presented and taken care of premises, and neatly dressed and clean occupants.

[Witness]

Hello Anna, you did challenge one to “prove me wrong”, and I accepted the challenge.  I am sorry it leads to the “same old questions”, but perhaps there is a reason.

22 hours ago, Anna said:

Worshiping in spirit and truth does not negate the need for organization. Also the scriptures you cited have nothing to do with there not being a need for organization. The first century Christians were organized to accomplish their ministry. The JWs are organized to accomplish their ministry also.

 

Did Christ have in mind a hierarchical power of organization to accomplish his will?  The scriptures in John 4:21-24 do negate the need for man’s desire to “organize”.  Jesus was explaining that no physical entity was needed to worship God in Truth. The Watchtower, ironically, says this also by saying, “ true Christian worship would not be centered in or dependent on any material structure or physical location”. (W 16 #2, pp. 8-10).  Stephen said the same, when proclaiming the Most High does not live in man-made houses.  Acts 7:44-56  Out of the other side of the mouth,the organization teaches each Kingdom Hall is “God’s House”, as well as a physical Bethel – all built in Satan’s realm!  Acts 17:14  It is self-assuming by men that God will put his authority over what men build as sanctioned by Him, above the spiritual Temple He has built through His Son. Heb 3:6

What is organized by God, is the Body of Christ, made up of anointed ones. Eph 2:20-21 Anything earthly is derived by men.  Mount Zion would not be “earthly” when we are to be “no part of this world”.  Zion is God’s Temple – spiritual in meaning and construction.  Ps 132:7-9; 13,14; 2 Pet 1:18; Matt 17:1-3; Rev 14:1

 

 

22 hours ago, Anna said:

Acts 4:12 says it. So no, JWs do not feel it's through an organization. And please don't come back to me with quotes from the WT like "in order to survive the great tribulation we must stick to the organization". These and similar quotes are not replacing salvation being through Jesus, they are merely reminders that sticking closely together and encouraging one another will help us to remain faithful to Jesus.

 

 

 

Anna, (I do appreciate your name) Acts 4:12 states there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.  If an elder body felt it wasn’t necessary for every JW to receive salvation through the existence of an organization, would those who choose to serve God and Christ without it, be disfellowshipped?  Of course they would, because although the WT teaches our worship is not dependent on any structure, one is considered “inactive” for not attending one, and ultimately, shunned.  Hypocrisy.  If one was to recite Acts 4:12 in a judicial committee, would it be respected? 

W ‘81/11/15   “Come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation”

22 hours ago, Anna said:

No, JWs do not baptize in the name of an organization. I don't ever remember hearing that. The second part of the question is a public affirmation that the person being baptized in the name of the Father and the son, and the holy spirit will identify themselves with Jehovah's Witnesses. Nothing unscriptural about that.

 

I am amazed that you do not see how connecting such a statement at the time of baptism is blasphemous.  This is a dedication that should be only to whom we worship.  We can discern what is important to the organization in these questions to the candidate, and compare them with earlier questions.

“On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?” 

“Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."

Holy Spirit is not mentioned – barely, is Christ.

1973 - (1) Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ? 

(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

In today’s questions, do you see that more emphasis is given to devotion to the organization and one’s identity to it?  And yes, it is unscriptural.  For God’s Chosen ones, their identity and dedication is to be given to God and Christ alone.  1 Cor 16:19-20  That is the true mark that determines our actions and thoughts as a Christian. Deut 6:8  Any other mark is through the demands of men.  Rev 13:16,17; 14:9

 

 

22 hours ago, Anna said:

Yup. And don't come back to me with quotes from the WT talking about obedience to the elders and GB. No JW should ever obey anyone if they come to them with something contrary to the scriptures

 

 

 

 

 Although the GB admits it makes mistakes in organizational direction and doctrine (Feb 2017 Wt), obedience is expected to them, and the elder body, throughout their history of mistakes.  If every JW followed your advice, there would be more disfellowshippings than there already are.

At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. w13 11/15 pp. 16-20 –

“By word or action, may we never challenge the channel of communication that Jehovah is using today.” (w09 11/15 p. 14 par. 5 Treasure Your Place in the Congregation)

When we loyally obey the elders and other brothers appointed by “the faithful and discreet slave,” we show that we want to help Christ’s brothers. ws15 3/15 pp. 24-29

22 hours ago, Anna said:

Being seated at the right hand of God does not mean he is already ruling but is king designate

 

Dan 2:44 speaks of God’s eternal Kingdom.  Christ’s Kingdom rule of a thousand years is a time of “bringing nothing to Satan’s world” – ruling “in the midst of his enemies”.  Ps 110:1,2; Heb 2:14; John 5:24  At the same time, he is gathering his kingly administration, to share his own inheritance given to him from the Father, once God’s Kingdom is established.  Eph 1:9-14; 1 Cor 3:13,14; 1 Pet 1:7; 2 Cor 5:10.  Each chosen one must be proven worthy of receiving it during their lifetime.  Matt 25:23; Luke 16:11,12

This began in the first century.  1 Cor 15:25,24,28

And culminates when Satan’s world is brought to nothing and God’s Kingdom reign through Christ and his faithful brothers begins.  Dan 7:13,14,18,27; Heb 12:28; Rev 1:6; 11:15; Isa 14:2; 60:12; John 3:35; Matt 25:23; 24:45-47; Luke 16:10; Dan 4:17

A thousand year period is on God’s timetable, not on man’s.  2 Pet 3:8

 

 

22 hours ago, Anna said:

Riches is relative. My home, which is modest by western standards will be viewed as luxury by someone living in a mud hut in Africa. The buildings we owned were very well taken care of. As for opulence, have you ever been in a Catholic church?

 

 

I was a Catholic for a long while growing up.  You are comparing an earthly place of worship with another earthly place of worship, when God explains that his “footstool” is his own anointed chosen FAITHFUL people within the Body of Christ – who become part of heavenly Zion, His Temple, through their sacrifice to God, to their Master, and to mankind.  Isa 66:1,2; Ps 132:7-9; Ps 15; 2 Pet 1:18; Matt 17:1-3; Rev 14:1

Christ is the source of Spirit, Truth and Salvation, and where our worship lies.  Centralized authority by men is man’s fabrication, not God’s.  The heavenly treasure we store up for ourselves cannot be acquired through membership in an organization, the work of man’s hands.  Christ tried to tell us this, as did the apostles. Matt 6:19-20; James 5:1-6   Caring for a corporation, which the Watchtower is, removes one’s spiritual concentration on the heavenly, by redirecting it to what the physical eye sees.  Matt 6:24; Col 3:1,2

We can’t have it both ways, since God expects devotion to be given exclusively to Him – and His Son.  For men to call the organization “earthly Zion”, as well as expect loyalty and devotion to it, is blasphemous to the Father.  

 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, (Zion) or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;  you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,  but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.”  Exod 20:4-6

This is the downfall of men, and what God dealt with many times over with His people.  Their devotion to Him was diverted to created things, or they combined their worship using His name while serving an idol. 1 Kings 18:21

“For they had bartered the reality of God for what is unreal, and had offered divine honours and religious service to created things, rather than to the Creator--He who is for ever blessed. Amen.”  Rom 1:25

It is no different today.  Truly, the organization expects the bartering of devotion – worship – to be given to the Watchtower.  It is expected that one serve the needs of the organization, evident through baptism questions and pressure to serve, as elders, pioneers, ministerial servants.  We cannot serve two masters.  Rev 9:20

 

 

22 hours ago, Anna said:

Of course I will tell you all this is necessary to preach the good news of the Kingdom. How else are you going to do it? 

 

 

Firstly, JWs easily forget the power of God’s Holy Spirit, as if He is a weak God depending on mere humans to carry out His will, instead of us depending on Him.   Judges 7:2,4,7; Exod 6:6; 15:16; Deut 9:29; Leviticus Chapter 26; Zech 4:6; Ps 89:21; Luke 1:51

The preaching of the “good news” during the end times, is the restoration of “Jacob”, the scattered Temple of Christ. Isa 41:8; 43:1; 2:3  It is scattered within the deception called the Watchtower.  God is gathering His people through Christ, during the end from this deception. Rev 18:4-8; 3:18  The anointed languish under the fist of an elder body, and a “wicked slave” thought to have God-given power over Christ’s chosen priesthood.  This is an “abomination of desolation standing in the holy place” - the only holy place that matters to God that would be written in the scriptures needing any sort of mentioning.  Matt 24:15  God’s people face a deceptive delusion that will sift each anointed heart as worthy to serve Him in the Kingdom.  Luke 22:31; 2 Thess 2:1-12

God’s arrangement of teaching and leadership among “Jews” and “proselytes” (Zech 8:23; John 4:22; Rom 2:28,29) are the “living stones” built upon Christ, the cornerstone and the foundation of apostles and prophets.  Eph.4:11-14; 2:20-22; 3:5; Luke12:42; Heb.13:17; 1Cor.3:16; 1Pet.2:5,9-10; Rev.21:14; 1Cor.3:9-10; 1Tim.3:15; Rev.3:12; Prov.9:1; Rev.1:20

A “showy display of one’s means of life” is pronounced in the organization, (James 4:4; 1 John 2:15-17) and the GB’s attempt to rule over Christ’s brothers with the use of a false priesthood holding rule over God’s sanctuary.  Luke 11:43; John 8:44; Luke 4:5-7; Rev.9:1,11; 13:4; 17:3

This deception outlined to happen during the end times is Satan’s worldly power over Christ’s seed – a form of slavery to a false image of divinity, Rev 13:15,8,7; 19:20, by means of a false prophet and wicked slave, who “plays the Harlot”.   Ps 106:39

 

 

22 hours ago, Anna said:

Let me tell you something else. I have had this discussion about this sort of thing with your buddies, and in the end they ALL admitted that the organization is not in it for the money and that the "7 men" at the "top" were not living in any more of "plush" surroundings than many other brothers and sisters. They also admitted that if those at the top were in it for the money, then they would be making sure all rank and file got a good education and job because more money for the rank and file would mean bigger contributions. Anyway, this is a ridiculous discussion as I have not seen any flaunting of material riches, merely well presented and taken care of premises, and neatly dressed and clean occupants.

 

 

Anna, Satan and his Sons transform themselves into an angel of light. “Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works”.  2 Cor 11:13-15; Gen 3:15

Deceitfulness and deception can be hidden through glitter, godly devotion, and smooth words hiding true intentions under the surface.  2 Tim 3:5; Matt 23:25; 1 Tim 6:3-5; Ps 55:21

Think how easily it is for JWs to accept new books, and discard the old.  If they contained truth to begin with, they would not be discarded; but the “new and improved”, sell – not the old.  This is made on money from people who have little education.  To keep the trap in good working order, new bait is always set.  Rev 13:10; Rev 21:24  If education was highly esteemed by the organization, and one pursued it freely, time spent in the trap would end, or be minimal, allowing one to think independently or develop an independent spirit beyond what is fed an individual through the pages of the Watchtower.  We are well aware of teaching guarding against this.   Perhaps through doing so, in individual would realize serving God and Christ outside of the organization is the proper way to worship.  Power is the primary drive behind the organization; money, in any amount, is a side benefit; but to cover for those who give little, brochures are produced to carefully outlined ALL the ways to give money to the organization.

Ingenious, isn’t it?  The organization touts itself as a haven for “peace” and “safety” – nothing will take it down, since it is taught it has God’s backing.  The most efficient trap is the most unsuspecting one, to house the lion.  If we care not to do our research to "see" it, and we desire what we physically see instead, it can be too late to get out.    1 Thess 5:3; Jer 8:11; Amos 3:5; Prov 7:21-27; 1 Pet 5:8; Rev 13:4

 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.  Col 2:8

http://pearl-satansthrone.blogspot.com/

[Anna]

I understand. There are a few ex-witnesses like Pearl Doxey (is that you?) who are convinced that WT is a false prophet and anti Christ etc. etc. and is convinced of various conspiracies etc. etc. I’m sorry to disappoint you but I don’t see anything that such ones believe has any relevance to the JW org.

These people have their convictions and write their blogs and that is up to them and is fine by me. They can do whatever they want.  However, on further investigation it becomes apparent that spending any amount of time reading their opinions is a complete waste of time, at least for me.

And I am sorry, but replying to you is a waste of time for me also, as I suspected it would be, because you are convinced and want to believe what you want to believe and as I said, no matter what I say will change your mind.

A couple of things I will mention though, One,  you said “Christ is the source of Spirit, Truth and Salvation, and where our worship lies” and  “God’s arrangement of teaching and leadership among “Jews” and “proselytes” (Zech 8:23; John 4:22; Rom 2:28,29) are the “living stones” built upon Christ, the cornerstone and the foundation of apostles and prophets”  and “God explains that his “footstool” is his own anointed chosen FAITHFUL people within the Body of Christ – who become part of heavenly Zion, His Temple, through their sacrifice to God, to their Master, and to mankind”  ---- That is all well and good, but on their own, they are merely words. But what do these words actually mean? And what do they mean in practice? (the Bible give us these answers). Similarly, anyone can say “I believe in Christ”, but those are just words too and many so called Christians will quote them and be content that this is the be all and end all to the question of salvation; that they will be saved. But there is much more to it than that.  Matthew 7:21-27, James 1:25.

Second

On 11/8/2016 at 4:18 PM, Witness said:

If education was highly esteemed by the organization, and one pursued it freely, time spent in the trap would end, or be minimal, allowing one to think independently or develop an independent spirit beyond what is fed an individual through the pages of the Watchtower.  We are well aware of teaching guarding against this.  Perhaps through doing so, in individual would realize serving God and Christ outside of the organization is the proper way to worship.

I am sorry but this is complete nonsense. You and I both know that anyone with a spiritual need will seek out a church. If this church allows practically anything the person personally likes, and supports the life style they choose, then then many people  will happily join that church. I saw it at the big church down the road where I used to live. It was like a club.  Professionals such as Lawyers, Bankers and Doctors loved that Church. They felt blessed that they had such good jobs, a sense of community and a belief in Christ. Have a browse through their website and see what you think: https://www.southeastchristian.org/

So your theory about both money AND power is, like I said, nonsense. IF that is what it was all about, then I would say the GB are not doing a very good job of it at all. They would need to learn from the church I linked above, oh and bear in mind, all members of that Church pay a tithe of course....

[Witness]

Hello Anna,

On 11/9/2016 at 11:52 PM, Anna said:

I understand. There are a few ex-witnesses like Pearl Doxey (is that you?) who are convinced that WT is a false prophet and anti Christ etc. etc. and is convinced of various conspiracies etc. etc. I’m sorry to disappoint you but I don’t see anything that such ones believe has any relevance to the JW org.

I am sorry that you cannot see how this organization has mislead thousands through failed prophesies and ideas of men.

"The Watchtower is a magazine without equal in the earth …. This is not giving any credit to the magazine's publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with it truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies." Watchtower1943 Apr 15 p.127

1922 "We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line.... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." (Watchtower, p. 150, May 15, 1922)

It was considered a “certainty” that the Lord blessed the above prophesy.  But whose fault was it for believing such teachings when it failed?

1975 "The year 1925 came and went. Jesus' anointed followers were still on earth as a class. The faithful men of old time - Abraham, David and others - had not been resurrected to become princes in the earth. (Ps. 45:16) So, as Anna MacDonald recalls: '1925 was a sad year for many brothers. Some of them were stumbled; their hopes were dashed...Instead of it's being considered a 'probability,' they read into it that it was a 'certainty.' and some prepared for their loved ones with expectations of their resurrection." (Yearbook, 1975, p. 146)

The blame for believing such false teaching was put on the listeners, not on the teachers.

1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968)

Derive from these words, what you will.

On 11/9/2016 at 11:52 PM, Anna said:

A couple of things I will mention though, One,  you said “Christ is the source of Spirit, Truth and Salvation, and where our worship lies” and  “God’s arrangement of teaching and leadership among “Jews” and “proselytes” (Zech 8:23; John 4:22; Rom 2:28,29) are the “living stones” built upon Christ, the cornerstone and the foundation of apostles and prophets”  and “God explains that his “footstool” is his own anointed chosen FAITHFUL people within the Body of Christ – who become part of heavenly Zion, His Temple, through their sacrifice to God, to their Master, and to mankind”  ---- That is all well and good, but on their own, they are merely words. But what do these words actually mean? And what do they mean in practice? (the Bible give us these answers). Similarly, anyone can say “I believe in Christ”, but those are just words too and many so called Christians will quote them and be content that this is the be all and end all to the question of salvation; that they will be saved. But there is much more to it than that.  Matthew 7:21-27, James 1:25.

I could say the same about the GB teaching they are the “faithful and discreet slave”.  Jesus said, “who really is…” and the GB says, we are! They recognize this decision isn’t made until Christ appears, but they have labeled themselves as such anyway, convincing millions that this decision is now, and will be, Christ’s, and is set in stone because they say so.    How self-assuming and haughty for uninspired men.  Matt 25:19-30

Within the organization are genuine anointed ones.  Do you find them in any other church/religion where a people professing to be truly anointed are found?  There is a reason for this, of which I will mention later.  An anointing by God is an unmistakable event.  We take the person’s word for it, really; but the individual cannot deny that they have been “chosen”.  1 Pet 2:9,10  They are God’s true “witnesses” in covenant with him to declare praises of Truth.  Isa 43:10,21 They are “formed” by Him to do his will – Isa 43:21. 

Through their lips, they are to offer “sacrifices of praise”, teach the people, and in God Kingdom, will work right among all people on earth (Rev 21:2) with Christ, and as his Bride.  Mal 2:7; Heb 13:15; 2 Cor 11:2; Rev 22:17

The early apostles were chosen as the foundation stones of God’s spiritual “Temple”, Mt. Zion, New Jerusalem, the Holy City.  (All, are the same).  (Heb 8:5) We are aware of why and how they were chosen and we must realize that this “choosing” has been going on since then, on God’s timetable, until His Temple reaches an acceptable finish.  Eph 2:10; 1:4; 1 Cor 3:16; 6:19; Heb 11:10; Titus 2:14; 2 Tim 2:21; Isa 66:1

The “capstone” (Zech 4:7) of the Temple are those anointed ones who are the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”, (New Jerusalem covenant/promise, Gal 4:26), (Rev 12:17) coming out of the great tribulation, and joining a kingly priesthood of the “144,000” who are found worthy, through each one’s testing by Satan, a persecution and refinement during their lifetime.  This is by following in Jesus’ footsteps, suffering as he had suffered.  Although all of us are faced with this refinement when turning to the Christ; this potential Bride (the firstfruits) is hit the hardest by Satan’s tactics.  John 15:20; Rev 19:7; 7:13,14

A side point – the organization has lied about God’s true intentions for this “administration” (2 Cor 9:12,13), God’s Kingdom.  The early priesthood were expected to teach God’s laws to all Israel, as well as serve them through the offering of sacrifices for sins. We know Christ, our High Priest, became the ultimate sacrifice for all; but firstly, for his “brothers, those part of his Body.  The lives of these firstfruits must be lived in imitation of their Master. Heb 8:10; 1 Pet 2:5; James 1:18; Rev 14:4  Through the completed covenant, Abraham’s further “seed” results from the union of Christ and his Bride  bringing life and nourishment to all faithful mankind by serving to their needs. Isa 66:7-13 (they are the symbolic trees - Zech 4:3; Ezek 36:30; Ezek 47:12; Rev 22:2; Matt 12:33) They are a new creation, allowing them access to heaven and earth - both in spirit and as humans, as was Christ after his resurrection.  John 1:51; Gen 28:12; Mark 16:12

During the end times, scripture speaks of a delusion set in place at the hands of Satan, and allowed by God, as a final test for the last of the “living stones” of God’s Temple.  Satan knows that once the Temple is completed, he is ousted; so his best plan of attack is to bring down the chosen ones, by using, and persuading, chosen ones to join his side, by offering the same thing he did to Christ –earthly power.  Matt 4:8,9  They appear as God’s faithful ‘house steward’ (Luke 16) over all other chosen ones and all sheep, by offering tidbits of authentic Truth... initially. John 8:32; Rev 8:11 (With the outpouring of Holy Spirit on anointed ones, truth from scripture, is recognized.) 1 John 2:20

So, what is behind the delusion?

It is the man of lawlessness, the elder body representing the organization, set over God’s Temple/sanctuary/priesthood.   2 Thess 2:1-12 God’s choice of a holy priesthood (1 Pet 2:5) is ignored; an elder body stands over them expecting obedience to them.

“Elders today have also been appointed by holy spirit. Why can we say that? Because they have been appointed based on requirements written in God’s inspired Word. So when we obey the elders, we show respect for Jehovah and Jesus, the two greatest Shepherds.” ws13 11/15 pp. 21-26

These spiritual “Gentiles” have successfully “trampled” God’s Temple. Ezek 44:7; Luke 21:24; Dan 8:13 (Rom 2:28,29; Heb 8:10)

A “wicked slave” “beats his brothers” into submission of obedience to it, and an elder body; disfellowshipping ensues for questioning their teachings, and for their “testimony of Christ”.  Rev 12:17

It is the fourth beast of Daniel, “different” from the preceding beasts, changing God’s set times (2 Thess 2:2) and trampling his “holy people”.  Matt 24:15; Dan 7:21-25; 8:13; 9:26; 2 Pet 2:4-10

It is a false sense of security, an organization touted as earthly Zion. Ezek 13:10-12; 1 Thess 5:3; Matt 24:38,39

I won’t quote from the Wt here, but consider recent comments about the anointed ones in the organization.  They have no voice. Their power as God’s priesthood has been “brought to nothing”, while a false priesthood has been formed to rule over them.    They have become slaves of men. Rom 6:16  Jesus’ words, spoken through the apostles, are no longer adhered to:  1 Cor 12:12-26; 1 John 3:10-12

You made a comment somewhere here that in the end, God’s people come together.  It is the “firstfruits”, spiritual “Jews”, who are scattered among the nations, having no power over a “Gentile” army. Rev 2:9; 3:9 The anointed “come together” spiritually outside of this delusion by giving their testimony of Jesus, thrown “out of the synagogue”, suffering persecution “outside the camp”, and cut off from family and friends through disfellowshipping.  Rev 12:17; John 16:2; Heb 13:13; Luke 12:51-53; Matt 5:10,11

The GB is so intent on themselves as they perpetuate the lie of the organization being “truth”, and that they are the “faithful and discreet slave”, they have chosen to ignore their own brothers – members of Christ’s body.  Paul taught unity and love in that regard, but how easily this slave persecutes and “kills” its own members, contradictory to what the apostles taught. 

 Many will fail this sifting. Jude 1:12,13; 1 John 2:19 which gives prudence to “narrow is the gate”.  Who wants to lose their family members?  Who wants to leave a sense of security? 

Look at the picture below that has hazed out Christ’s face.  Ask yourself, where does the eye focus?  Shouldn’t it be on Jesus, with the GB in the background?

 Why would Jesus’ Bride allow men to rule over them, when their only head is their Master, Christ? 

Because they,

1.      Choose to love the lie and its benefits.  2 Thess 2:11,12; Luke 4:6

2.      Will not give up everything to follow Christ, the only one they are to obey, which takes humility and sacrifice.  Mark 13:12; Luke 12:53

3.      Have fear over men. 2 Cor 11:4,20

4.      Are expecting improvement, that God will “fix” the problems by waiting on “Jehovah”.  Jer 27:16; 23:32

The GB reacts with vengeance when anyone refuses to buy in to their teachings:

This is what the Lord says: “As for the prophets who lead my people astray, they proclaim ‘peace’ if they have something to eat, but prepare to wage war against anyone who refuses to feed them.  Micah 3:5

As for tithing; in the organization I call it “pressured donations”.   Remember the form passed out to each individual publisher asking for a commitment of a regular amount of donation, or a one time gift?  Also, each congregation must donate monthly at least the amount of an excused loan - indefinitely.   

No, I am not Pearl Doxsey, who is a member of the Body of Christ, as am I.