What does not passing the collection plate really mean anyway?

[Anna]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Regarding earthly riches Jesus taught just the opposite of what the Watchtower practices. 

He carried a money bag to give to the poor.  He turned over the money tables on the temple steps, shouting, “stop turning my father’s house into a marketplace!”  John 2:16

He said, “sell your belongings and give to the poor”.  As the Wt. sells KHs, do they “give back” to those in need?  Or…do they invest in more shady stocks, like those in the the link I provided?  The GB reside in comfort, their physical needs are met.  Why are they any more worthy than anyone else, to receive physical comfort?  Jesus, who had nowhere to lay his head, said “it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”  Luke 18:25 

The leaders will tell you with apparent sincerity that the example of Jesus is what you, as a sheep should display.  So, you give to what you think is the true need – the organization.   Along with you, are thousands digging into their pockets and who will not be eating three meals a day as the GB does, or sleeping in plush surroundings as the GB does.  These poor ones will save from their want to serve the needs of the organization. 

The Wt leaders are to be walking in Jesus’ footsteps, even to the point of denying oneself. Matt 16:24   Clearly, they have left that path and desire all that the world’s riches can provide them; including power and prestige.   Didn’t Jesus say to love one’s neighbor as yourself?  By doing so, wouldn’t the needs of the other person become paramount?

“Give, and it will be given to you; a good measure—pressed down, shaken together, and running over—will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.”  Luke 6:38

The flock is fleeced not only monetarily, but spiritually.  Rev 3:17,18

 

You have very unrealistic perceptions. This is not the 1st Century. If Jesus was on earth today, what do you think he would be doing? (if it wasn't time yet to rule over the earth). I reckon he would be organizing the preaching of the Kingdom in all the earth, as that is the commission he left his disciples with.  Assuming he refrained from using his supernatural powers, how do you think he would go about it?

[Witness]

9 hours ago, Anna said:

You have very unrealistic perceptions. This is not the 1st Century. If Jesus was on earth today, what do you think he would be doing? (if it wasn't time yet to rule over the earth). I reckon he would be organizing the preaching of the Kingdom in all the earth, as that is the commission he left his disciples with.  Assuming he refrained from using his supernatural powers, how do you think he would go about it?

Are you putting the Son of God on the same level as the GB? Are you dismissing the power of Holy spirit within Christ and his ability to empower others? Ps 110:1-4  Didn’t he use the Holy Spirit to perform powerful works in the first century; and, are you forgetting who his Father is?   I realize the GB is not inspired, but this doesn’t mean other anointed ones are not inspired, that Christ would choose to use.  Rev 11:1-3; John 15:4,5; John 14:12-14,26; Luke 10:19

Perhaps you are saying that Jesus would have to take Satan up on his offer of riches and power and prominence in the world to get the work done in the way the Watchtower does.  Luke 4:5-8; John 14:26

The “good news” will not reach all of “Israel” before the son of Man comes; I believe he will see that it is taken care of without the need of a showy display.   Matt 10:23;28:20; Rom 9:6; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Isa 10:17-23; Matt 24:30,31; Rev 7:4

It is an unrealistic perception to believe God must choose man’s way to get his will done.  Zech 4:1-14

[TrueTomHarley]

10 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

with the recent multiple Earthquake's and Hurricane's devastations .... soon enough ... we will all know.

That "Rainy Day" of widespread catastrophe is HERE, NOW!

About a year from now ... WE WILL ALL KNOW.

So. You are reduced to saying: "Just you wait, Henry Higgins, just you wait." They have knocked it out of the park thus far on disaster relief. 'Yeah, (mutter mutter) but surely this new tough pitcher will strike them out'

They know it is hopelessly out of the reach of many third world congregations to afford their own Kingdom Hall, and they are thrilled to know their funds are spent thereby. Even @James Thomas Rook Jr., who rails about giving up local control of his money, probably does not begrudge that.

10 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Of course not ... I do not begrudge that, as some Bethel Branch offices are 100% subsidized, although it has never been explained or accounted for above the level of the "Circuit Assembly".

My mistake. It appears that you do begrudge it.

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, Witness said:

The “good news” will not reach all of “Israel” before the son of Man comes; I believe he will see that it is taken care of without the need of a showy display.

What is this?   

'If it requires us to do any more than come out of our Quonset hut, it is God's problem.'

5 hours ago, Witness said:

The GB reside in comfort, their physical needs are met.  Why are they any more worthy than anyone else, to receive physical comfort?

Because you must not muzzle the ox while it is threshing.

I don't use the expression "bitter apostate." It seems to me a stereotype which does not always hold true. But  sometimes it is exactly the proper expression.

[Witness]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What is this?   

'If it requires us to do any more than come out of our Quonset hut, it is God's problem.'

Because you must not muzzle the ox while it is threshing.

I don't use the expression "bitter apostate." It seems to me a stereotype which does not always hold true. But  sometimes it is exactly the proper expression.

Did you read the scriptures I attached (one has been repaired) or do they bore you? 

[TrueTomHarley]

6 minutes ago, Witness said:

Did you read the scriptures I attached (one has been repaired) or do they bore you?

Do you mean the misapplied ones?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

My mistake. It appears that you do begrudge it.

I see by that comment that billions of dollars in contributed money to the Society, with ABSOLUTELY NO ACCOUNTING WHATSOEVER to the contributors is agreeable to you.

I scare a lot of people, TTH ... but YOU are one REALLY scary Dude.

That even scares ME ... that someone can even THINK like that.

[Anna]

11 hours ago, Witness said:

Are you putting the Son of God on the same level as the GB?

No, of course not. But you used the example of Jesus, implying we should do what he did, so I was asking what you thought he would do in the 21st century to get the good news preached, without miracles.

11 hours ago, Witness said:

Are you dismissing the power of Holy spirit within Christ and his ability to empower others? Ps 110:1-4  Didn’t he use the Holy Spirit to perform powerful works in the first century; and, are you forgetting who his Father is? 

 I’m not dismissing that at all, but we both know that those powerful works performed in the 1st century  ceased.

11 hours ago, Witness said:

Perhaps you are saying that Jesus would have to take Satan up on his offer of riches and power and prominence in the world to get the work done in the way the Watchtower does.

Now you’re being ridiculous. As if the WT ever had, or has, or will have, the kind of riches, and power and prominence Jesus was offered. Not even close. I really don't think you've thought that one through considering Christendom's churches, such as the Catholic Church etc.

11 hours ago, Witness said:

It is an unrealistic perception to believe God must choose man’s way to get his will done. 

It is an unrealistic perception I agree.  As it is, God has given the privilege to man to make disciples for Jesus  and to tell all about the Kingdom.  

[TrueTomHarley]

43 minutes ago, Anna said:

 

12 hours ago, Witness said:

It is an unrealistic perception to believe God must choose man’s way to get his will done. 

 

That's why Jesus told his disciples to sit on their rear ends. Anything they might do would be 'man's way,' they being men.

[Witness]

2 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

That's why Jesus told his disciples to sit on their rear ends. Anything they might do would be 'man's way,' they being men.

When you read the scriptures, let me know.

[Witness]

48 minutes ago, Anna said:

It is an unrealistic perception I agree.  As it is, God has given the privilege to man to make disciples for Jesus  and to tell all about the Kingdom.  

And it is being done, in truth and not in the lie of 1914.  

[Witness]

49 minutes ago, Anna said:

I’m not dismissing that at all, but we both know that those powerful works performed in the 1st century  ceased.

Holy Spirit is no longer active?  It doesn't have the ability to put truth in one's heart?  That alone is a "powerful work".  Acts 2:17; Rev 1:1; 11:3