The Man of Lawlessness in the 21st Century

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Once again I will end by saying that God may totally cleanse the JW Org and then use it, or God may start a new organisation of truthful Anointed ones. 

The Witness organization cannot possibly be as bad as you charge, for the Devil is not that bad. You are a loon, John, wildly overstating all of your points, substantial or trivial, implacable to any persuasion to back down even a little on any of them. Nothing shows more clearly.

More later.

[JOHN BUTLER]

19 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The Witness organization cannot possibly be as bad as you charge, for the Devil is not that bad. You are a loon, John, wildly overstating all of your points, substantial or trivial, implacable to any persuasion to back down even a little on any of them. Nothing shows more clearly.

More later.

Quote : You are a loon, John, wildly overstating all of your points,

Here again Tom @TrueTomHarley  uses this mental problem thing. He just has no other answer. 

Tom you know that what I have written above is all true. Even IF I was mentally disturbed, as you pretend, it would not make my statements less true. 

As for the Devil not being that bad, who are you trying to kid ?

Didn't the devil get prophets to give false prophecy ? 

Didn't the devil get the Israelites to offer their children in the fire to Molech ? 

The Nation of Israel served the devil so much that they were punished for it many times. 

And in the end the Jews murdered GOD'S SON JESUS CHRIST.

So don't try to tell me the Devil isn't that bad. 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

40 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So don't try to tell me the Devil isn't that bad. 

And John has no sense of hyperbole, rather unfortunate, because Jesus uses them frequently.

[JOHN BUTLER]

17 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

And John has no sense of hyperbole, rather unfortunate, because Jesus uses them frequently.

And Tom is only on here to make money from his books. 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And Tom is only on here to make money from his books. 

Aren’t you in Britain? Don’t you have some exotic cars there that I could buy? What was the last auto that James Bond tooled around in?

My current project is to go through Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah’s Witnesses Write Russia paragraph by paragraph to re-examine wording. I have already done so to (mostly) fix a self-devised system of punctuation. 

That book has caused me more trouble than my other three put together, mostly because of the manner in which it was written.

Once I have completed the task, I will look into releasing it on audio, as an author-read narrator. 

There are many many things that I am not good at, in fact, almost everything. However, public reading is something that I am good at. 

[Space Merchant]

21 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Sorry, I forgot one of the most important points too. Tom is comparing totally UNINSPIRED MEN therefore leading an uninspired organisation, to the Early Christian organisation which was full of INSPIRED MEN INCLUDING PAUL. 

The early Christian Church consist of inspired and uninspired men. Yes Paul was inspired, however, Clement, Chloe, and Epaphras were not, as is with others, regardless, all of them were faithful servants of the Christ and worship Jesus' God, and wanting to do right in their church of which they reside. More so, men and women of the church congregations, not all of them were inspired either, as imperfect ones, they fall short to sin and falsehood, example would be the whole situation with idols, The Temple of Artemis, those who became apostates within the church and were eventually kicked out.

After the Apostles died, there is only uninspired men, however, such ones are still faithful spirit led Christians of God and followers of Christ, wanting to do right in the church.

[Srecko Sostar]

59 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

The early Christian Church consist of inspired and uninspired men. Yes Paul was inspired, however, Clement, Chloe, and Epaphras were not

What evidences and proofs you have to offer us for such claim? By which/what standards and methods you came to conclusion who was and who wasn't "inspired"? What Paul is and have done to be called "inspired"? .... and what Clement, Chloe and Epaphras are not and not done that you put them in group of "uninspired" Christians?

Question come for our time. Who are "inspired" and who are "uninspired" Christians TODAY? Give us some names or tell us, where we can find this individuals in places we live today?

Another question. You separate Christians in TWO CLASSES. What is the role of each one class ?

[Space Merchant]

On 7/27/2019 at 8:05 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

What evidences and proofs you have to offer us for such claim?

Practically regarding what the Bible says, which is the proof right there.

On 7/27/2019 at 8:05 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

By which/what standards and methods you came to conclusion who was and who wasn't "inspired"?

In regard to what I had addressed about prophets who are inspired, and prophets not inspired.

On 7/27/2019 at 8:05 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

What Paul is and have done to be called "inspired"?

Apostle Paul was inspired and infallible, just as Agabus, Jesus, John, etc. Paul, like the rest, was one through whom divine will as well as purpose was made known, for Paul, had the rest were proclaimers and or messengers who were inspired. Paul had the gift of prophesying all while being inspired and infallible, proving he had the holy spirit whereas others, also inspired and infallible, at the ability to commit to miraculous and powerful works, i.e. Moses, Elijah and or Elisha. As is shown in the Bible, we know that Paul was both inspired and infallible based on what we can pull from his history and what we read about him in the Greek New Testament.

On 7/27/2019 at 8:05 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

.... and what Clement, Chloe and Epaphras are not and not done that you put them in group of "uninspired" Christians?

All of them are faithful servants of God, and were good Christians, but they were not inspired, and they were not infallible. Evident to this is due to unfounded information of such in the Bible whereas Chole was mentioned only once in the Bible, she was a peacekeeper, and was among her families household, as is being a member of the church of Corinth (as pointed out last time, in regards to you and Witness, she did not lead the church of Corinth, but sought the aid of Paul concerning the church, hence 1 Corinthians being written by Paul and sent to the Church of Corinth). Epaphras, is a friend of Paul and a fellow believer in the Christ, and he resides and or does his work in the Church of Colossae as is with preaching the gospel to them, he too received Paul's help and by means of this help, it pushed him to give aid to those in Laodicea and Hierapolis. Epaphras was also the one to have  Epaphras went to Rome in order to bring forth words of up-build and encourage to the Church of the Colossians and he remained there for a time while Paul wrote his Epistle (Letter) to the Colossae Church. Clement of Rome, similar situation, but his focus was Philippi - both Clement and Epaphras were mentioned by Paul in the Bible [Clement 1 time, Epaphras 3 times, as mentioned already, Chloe was mentioned 1 time].

On 7/27/2019 at 8:05 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Question come for our time. Who are "inspired" and who are "uninspired" Christians TODAY?

Christians are not inspired and are not infallible. Despite this, they are like prophets, although they do not have the ability to have visions and or have some divine action like some inspired prophets of old, they proclaim the message of the good new gospel (just like Clement and Epaphras) and they are spirit led ones in regards to preaching the good news gospel, as is with the Messianic Age.

On 7/27/2019 at 8:05 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Give us some names or tell us, where we can find this individuals in places we live today?

There is no Christian who is inspired today, something of which I told you several times in the past discussions.

 

 

 

On 7/27/2019 at 8:05 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Another question. You separate Christians in TWO CLASSES. What is the role of each one class ?

No. There are no two classes of Christians, and such a notion is absurd. There is only one church and her teachings are one, of which all in union with the Christ adhere to.

Also, the last Apostle to die was possibly John, who was said to have lived to the near end of the 1st Century. He received the visions as read in Revelations while on Patmos, which he transcribed in the Greek New Testament. Moreover, Hebrews 1:1-2 indicates that the principal way in which God our Father communicates with people present day is through the Christ by means of the written Word itself, that is inspired by God, not through visions or dreams (hence Christians not being inspired and or infallible). Additionally, the Scripture advises Christians to be on guard against fallen ones, otherwise known as demons, for they are the ones who seek out and that attempt to mislead.

That being said, such abilities that the inspired ones have has been done away with for such gifts were unique to the Apostles. It is even more evident granted going on into the 2^nd Century, we do not see anyone inspired nor read of them, more so, even the students and or disciples of them are not even inspired.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I have found that inspiration  often comes after a long day, and you realize that everywhere you have been sitting, it has always felt like underwear.

[Evacuated]

On 7/25/2019 at 2:56 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

On 7/25/2019 at 9:25 AM, Outta Here said:

clergy class still rears its ugly sting to inflict vindictive damage on true servants of God if possible (See the Russian affair).

I don’t think that’s true

" For she keeps saying in her heart: 'I sit as a queen and am no widow, and I will never see mourning' " Rev. 18:7

"The U.S.-headquartered Jehovah’s Witnesses have been under pressure for years in Russia, where the dominant Orthodox Church is championed by President Vladimir Putin. Orthodox scholars have cast them as a dangerous foreign sect that erodes state institutions and traditional values, allegations they reject." Reuters

The activity of Alexander Dvorkin is well documented. In 1993, with the blessing of Patriarch Alexy II, he established a Russian anti-cult organization currently called Association of Centres for the Study of Religions and Sects (RATsIRS). From that time on he has been extremely active in opposing cults and new religious movements through his publications. (Wikipedia)

Finally, in making an appearance at the 1999 trial hearings, which aimed at eliminating the Moscow community of Jehovah's Witnesses, this Alexander Dvorkin recounted stories about a Jehovah's Witness known to him personally, who allegedly dreamed of taking a machine gun to kill everyone who disagreed with him. However, Dvorkin was unable to answer a single specific question about the activities of Jehovah's Witnesses. 

Anyone who underestimates the guile, malice, and influence of the "man of lawlessness", despite its spectacular fall from grace in the eyes of many who were formerly dominated by it's intrigues is, sadly, under it's spell. 2Thess.2:9-11

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The daily real threat of bayonets will dramatically alter most people's perceptions of right and wrong.

Get bayoneted .... or wrap your mind into a pretzel.

Decisions, decisions .....

[Srecko Sostar]

18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

On 7/27/2019 at 2:05 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

What evidences and proofs you have to offer us for such claim?

Practically regarding what the Bible says, which is the proof right there.

And this is answer? :))

18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

As is shown in the Bible, we know that Paul was both inspired and infallible based on what we can pull from his history and what we read about him in the Greek New Testament.

Extraordinary ! Do you want to tell here how (Paul was both inspired and infallible) means:

1) He became infallible because he was accept Christianity  

2) He was infallible because he was inspired 24/7

3) He was inspired because he became infallible

or Paul was came down from Heaven like Jesus and that is reason for his infallibleness :))

And of course, you offer NO SINGLE VERSE that say/quote: Paul was INSPIRED or Paul was INFALLIBLE. !!!!! Maybe such verses exist, i don't know. But you prove nothing - NO BIBLE VERSES - ONLY Practically regarding what the Bible says, which is the proof right there. -  Later you just made DESCRIPTION about some names in scriptures. And put those names in TWO GROUPS, Inspired and Uninspired Christians. 

You can be "academic" how much you want, but so many words you put in comments, without any Bible verse that supports your opinions. And as result of this statement you made: 

18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

There is no Christian who is inspired today, something of which I told you several times in the past discussions.

i think that i can't believe in your teachings/explanations because: you are not "inspired" ... and you are not "infallible" !