September 2023 brings a “global campaign” for the Jehovah’s Witnesses

[Pudgy]

…. and Eric, you are confusing two entirely separate things. 

By not being perfect, Adam and Eve lost any advantages of the natural consequences that being perfect brings.

Eternal life

Superior genetics

The ability to have two way conversations with the Creator

… and many others.

It’s like when an employee is just “not working out” and is belligerent, disobedient, insubordinate, lazy, or just refuses to “get with the program”.

I have had to fire, or recommend that they be fired, and they had to pack up their stuff in cardboard boxes, and be escorted off the property.

Not having employment, many lives fell apart, and were ruined.

But as “unsuitable” as they were, and denied the “blessings” of a good job, THEY WERE NOT MY ENEMIES.

An ENEMY is someone marked for death and YOU ARE the one that actively seeks to KILL THEM.

If the fired employee takes his cardboard box home, and dies of a a stroke or heart attack, “Stuff Happens”. 

But, he is NOT THE ENEMY.

An ENEMY is someone you seek out and cut their throat with a sharp knife when they are sleeping, because they are a real, clear, and present danger.

Babies are not a real, clear and present danger.

Jehovah has the Sovereign right to kill any of us at any time for any reason, or no reason at all, even babies, as he did in Egypt so long ago.

That does NOT MAKE babies natural enemies of God.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

4 minutes ago, Fausto Hoover said:

The lack of common sense and wisdom among those who agree with nonsense is quite evident among the disfellowshipped. Given that fallen angels were responsible for the birth of Nephilim, it can be understood that these infants were inherently evil, making them adversaries of God. If Jesus were to have fathered a child as a perfect man, then no evil could be attributed to him, as the fallen angels rebelled against God in heaven. Can any commentator provide evidence of Michael's rebellion against God in heaven, which would have resulted in his offspring being equal to the Nephilim? This rebuttal is undeniably the epitome of inconsistency and foolishness.

In this case, I ponder who is worse - the puppeteer (Satan) or the puppets.
 

Perhaps this could be looked at with the following idea. Angels materialized after their perfection was taken away. Similar to Adam and Eve, who bore children after their perfection was taken away, so their children were imperfect, too.
The Logos did not materialize like the aforementioned angels, but was born as the man Jesus. His perfect DNA could prevail in the genetics of his children, so the children would perhaps be less imperfect and thus less hostile to God?

This whole discussion was caused by one frivolous statement of a GB member. Now we see how much damage the leading people at WTJWorg are causing by generating botched discussions due to GB botched instructions. And so for 140 years.

[Pudgy]

Yep.

[Pudgy]

This whole discussion reminds me of a satire on the Golden Age of Comics, which was during the 1930’s and 1940’s.

[Pudgy]

I had to think about it for a while, because my first thought was that if Jesus had a child it would be a hybrid and not be perfect…… Better than many or  most, but not perfect.

But then again I thought about the example of Jehovah God being a father Of Jesus, and Mary was an imperfect woman, so I guess you can have a hybrid birth and the offspring still be perfect.

[Pudgy]

5 minutes ago, Fausto Hoover said:

The confusion arises from a combination of ignorance and a strong desire to win a debate. Commentators persist in muddling the concept of imperfection, and now they aspire to limit its reach for their own advantage. Nevertheless, the ongoing discussion has been derailed by apostates who are distorting its original purpose, and the same distortion continues in this forum.

Your logical reasoning is so twisted when you die, they are going to have to screw you into the ground.

[Pudgy]

8 minutes ago, Fausto Hoover said:

The best part is that you'll go first and without any chance for redemption. Good luck, apostate, and enjoy life to the fullest while you still can.

If you were not a naturally evil person, you would have phrased that differently.

[Pudgy]

If Jesus did not have the ability to father a child, he would have been defective.

[Pudgy]

1 hour ago, Errikos Tsiamis said:

What reason could be someone from the exclusive club have to support such a claim?  …

…. It would be quite offensive if that person were to upvote.

Simple biology, Sherlock Holmes.

A perfect man who does not have the ability to father children is BY DEFINITION, defective …. therefore cannot be perfect.

…. and with THAT, you and Freddie's entire chains of logic and liberal tree hugger theological arguments of the last three days and several pages here collapses.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Errikos Tsiamis said:

What reason could someone from the exclusive club have to support such a claim? Satan, not God, is responsible for creating imperfection. How is it possible for God to be the cause of someone becoming His enemy? I hope there are no Jehovah's Witnesses in that exclusive club, just like there are none present here in this public forum. It would be quite offensive if that person were to upvote.

Since when do the terms "perfect" and "imperfect" date? Who was the first to use them to denote things, persons, phenomena as one or the other? According to the first words of the book of Genesis, God marked things as "good".

When he warned Adam about the tree, he didn't frighten him with punishment and told him; "if you eat from the tree you will become imperfect". They were warned that they would die. He did not tell them that they would grow old and get sick. Just that they will die. There is no indication that the people in Eden knew of the existence of (the difference between) perfection and imperfection. They were the way they were and it was "good" for them. And everything around them was "good" for them.

Who is responsible for "creating the imperfection"? When a bad event or even a crime happens between people, then we talk about the perpetrator and the victim. The law says that the perpetrator is responsible for the damage. Who is the victim and who is the perpetrator in Eden?

The Bible describes the Serpent, Adam and Eve as perpetrators who were punished. No victim appears to have been harmed. The children born of Adam and Eve seem to be treated not as victims, but as children of criminals and suffer all the troubles from the beginning like their parents.

The same God who punished the first people and all their children to this day, apparently did not hate them, but "only" punished them for disobedience. And he also showed no hatred towards their offspring because he sent his Son to redeem them. So God does not consider people and their babies as his enemies, big and small, but as his lost sons and daughters whom he calls to himself. Apparently Stephen Lett doesn't know that or has forgotten it in the meantime.

[Pudgy]

.

[Pudgy]

Always…. when you are beaten … you revert to ad hominem attacks. 

… but even those fail.