Genesis 6:21 and pre-flood food?

[Many Miles]

13 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

Is it possible Noah knocked out some bad people and kept them penned up to feed the meat eaters on the ark:P

Given that Noah was said to be faultless among his contemporaries, I’d have to say no. Had Noah done as you say, among his contemporaries he’d had been an accursed fugitive. (Gen. 6:9; 4:11, 12)

That said, God surely fed a lot of carrion (including human carrion) to animals by means of the great flood.

[Many Miles]

35 minutes ago, George88 said:

The speculation surrounding the mention of carrion meat is somewhat puzzling. It seems unlikely that Noah and his family would consume spoiled meat.

It's not speculation to speak of humans (including Noah and his family) eating carrion dead of natural cause. I'd dare say the meat you eat is of a dead animal. Carrion dead of natural cause can spoil to a point where it is inedible just as flesh of a slaughtered animal can.

Also, and to be clear, nowhere has anyone in this discussion spoken of eating inedible carrion.

As for the general notion of speculation as it related to pre-flood humans eating carrion, there is a logical scriptural argument addressing that just above. You might want to work on that, if you feel you can logically refute its conclusion.

[Pudgy]

I reject the idea that carrion as generally defined was ever a dependable food supply for any living things anytime in history.

It is statistically impossible.

Perhaps if you or an animal killed the prey animal, and then defined that fresh kill as carrion … hmmmm … maybe  … but it is an awkward construct and almost all people DO NOT imagine the grocery stores selling carrion … that is something vultures and other birds who have a highly acidic saliva and stomach acid that will almost instantly disassemble bacteria and toxins do.

In the most general sense, carrion refers to the decaying flesh of dead animals, often found in various stages of decomposition. Carrion can be categorized into different stages of necrosis (decay) based on the degree of decomposition. These stages typically include:

1. Fresh carrion: This is the initial stage of decomposition, where the body is newly deceased, and minimal decay has occurred. The flesh may still appear relatively intact.

2. Bloat stage: During this stage, gases produced by bacteria and other microorganisms begin to accumulate within the body, causing it to swell and become bloated.

3. Active decay: This stage is characterized by the breakdown of tissues, with the release of offensive odors and the presence of scavengers like flies and beetles.

4. Advanced decay: In this stage, most of the flesh has decomposed, leaving behind bones, hair, and tough tissues. Scavengers such as vultures may still feed on what remains.

5. Dry stage: At this point, only desiccated and skeletal remains are left, and decomposition has largely ceased.

Because of the plentiful availability of 5 out of 7 unclean animals on the Ark to be used for predator food, fresh drownings outside the Ark, and when a pregnant “clean” animal died giving birth, and fish, there is no need to introduce the concept of carrion as a food for mankind or animals, in general, but more to the point, it is statistically impossible.

[Many Miles]

Just now, Pudgy said:

I reject the idea that carrion as generally defined was ever a dependable food supply for any living things anytime in history.

It is statistically impossible.

...

Carrion dead of natural cause has been a food staple for many people. Even the Bible speaks of it. (See Deut. 14:21)

Carrion dead of natural cause spoils just like flesh of slaughtered animals. The fresher it is the safer it is.

[Pudgy]

No it does NOT.

It speaks of an occasional snack or meal under dire need, but only for non Jews.

Carrion as a food “staple” is a statistical impossibility.

Even lions on an open prairie where they can range a 200 mile radius and more would starve. They have to eat every three days.

Statistically, most carrion will be poisonous because of the advanced stages of decay.

THAT’s WHAT CARRION IS !

[Many Miles]

25 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

Carrion as a food “staple” is a statistical impossibility. Even lions on an open prairie where they can range a 200 mile radius and more would starve. They have to eat every three days.

Statistically, most carrion will be poisonous because of the advanced stages of decay.

 

By "staple" I intended to convey common. When animals or humans get  hungry they look for food. We mainly eat to survive. If we have the option of being choosy then we might also defer to taste. But mainly we're trying to survive, especially was this so in the ancient world.

Early humans ate would they could live off of as best they could. When they happened upon carrion dead of natural cause if it was fairly fresh (e.g., less than 24 hours deceased) it would have been very edible if its skin were generally intact. Among large herd animals like the American Bison, when literally tens of millions of them roamed the western plains, it was not uncommon for ancient people to come upon hundreds or even thousands of them drowned in a stampeded to a river off a steep embankment. Of the flesh, it would be harvested and what was not eaten then could be dried for later use. This was the same way they stored vegetable matter for future nutrition.

Using fire to cook food was a means of making all foods even safer to eat, and by cooking food it also helped humans get more nutrition from the food they ate.

[Pudgy]

…

 

[Many Miles]

Here's a decent academic article addressing human use of carrion as food: https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/64/5/394/2754213

[Many Miles]

45 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

No it does NOT.

It speaks of an occasional snack or meal under dire need, but only for non Jews.

Please take a look at the title of this discussion. It's about pre-flood humans.

Prior to the flood there were no Jews as a people.

As for Deuteronomy 14:21, it was presented only to show that the Bible speaks (attests) to human eating of carrion dead of natural cause. Men like Elihu and Job and others like them were free to eat carrion dead of natural cause, they could even purchase it from a Jew if they wished.

[George88]

4 hours ago, Many Miles said:

It's not speculation to speak of humans (including Noah and his family) eating carrion dead of natural cause. I'd dare say the meat you eat is of a dead animal. Carrion dead of natural cause can spoil to a point where it is inedible just as flesh of a slaughtered animal can.

Also, and to be clear, nowhere has anyone in this discussion spoken of eating inedible carrion.

As for the general notion of speculation as it related to pre-flood humans eating carrion, there is a logical scriptural argument addressing that just above. You might want to work on that, if you feel you can logically refute its conclusion.

What criteria do we use to determine the quality of processed meat? Can it be considered as neglected, decaying meat?

Could you provide an example of pre-flood humans consuming spoiled meat? It appears counterintuitive that they would not have taken precautions to properly handle the meat, such as preparing it immediately after a kill or upon discovering a carcass that was still edible. It stands to reason that humans would have been aware of the potential health risks associated with consuming rotten food, just as we are today.

You present Deuteronomy as evidence:

Is it possible that the words in Deuteronomy 14:21 could be misunderstood to imply that a devoted Jew, who is not a rabbi, can give away or sell meat from a deer that was hit by a car without having to bless it first? What if there was a sheep that accidentally fell off a cliff, and its Shepherd, who happened to be a Jew living in ancient Israel, that was bound by law yet not considered a Rabbi? It's fascinating how far we are willing to push our imagination.
 

[Many Miles]

34 minutes ago, George88 said:

What criteria do we use to determine the quality of processed meat? Can it be considered as neglected, decaying meat?

Could you provide an example of pre-flood humans consuming spoiled meat? It appears counterintuitive that they would not have taken precautions to properly handle the meat, such as preparing it immediately after a kill or upon discovering a carcass that was still edible. It stands to reason that humans would have been aware of the potential health risks associated with consuming rotten food, just as we are today.

You present Deuteronomy as evidence:

Is it possible that the words in Deuteronomy 14:21 could be misunderstood to imply that a devoted Jew, who is not a rabbi, can give away or sell meat from a deer that was hit by a car without having to bless it first? What if there was a sheep that accidentally fell off a cliff, and its Shepherd, who happened to be a Jew living in ancient Israel, that was bound by law yet not considered a Rabbi? It's fascinating how far we are willing to push our imagination.
 

Logical scriptural argument:

- If carrion was a kind of food eaten prior to the flood,

- Then carrion was stowed on the ark as food to be eaten by the human and animal passengers.

- Carrion was a kind of food eaten prior to the flood. “But this little fellow is essentially a scavenger, doing the work for which he was created: returning trash, garbage, and dead carcasses to the earth.” (Ref: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101992046?q=cockroaches&p=par , and Ps. 19:1)

- Carrion was stowed on the ark as food to be eaten by the human and animal passengers. Genesis 6:21 reads: “And on your part get yourself some of every kind of food that is eaten, and stow it with you, so as to have it for your eating and for theirs.” BLE(Ref: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/by/1/6 ) 

[George88]

16 minutes ago, Many Miles said:

Logical scriptural argument:

- If carrion was a kind of food eaten prior to the flood,

- Then carrion was stowed on the ark as food to be eaten by the human and animal passengers.

- Carrion was a kind of food eaten prior to the flood. “But this little fellow is essentially a scavenger, doing the work for which he was created: returning trash, garbage, and dead carcasses to the earth.” (Ref: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101992046?q=cockroaches&p=par , and Ps. 19:1)

- Carrion was stowed on the ark as food to be eaten by the human and animal passengers. Genesis 6:21 reads: “And on your part get yourself some of every kind of food that is eaten, and stow it with you, so as to have it for your eating and for theirs.” BLE(Ref: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/by/1/6 ) 

While your illustration may not provide concrete evidence of spoiled meat, it does serve as a reminder of the evilness of humanity and the reasons why God intended to destroy his creation. Although we can only speculate about the exact circumstances leading to God's decision, it serves as a cautionary tale about disobedience and carelessness with our lives. The fact that scripture describes specific types of edible foods suggests that humans were once closer to perfection than we are today, as we have a much greater capacity for imagination.