Genesis 6:21 and pre-flood food?

[George88]

3 minutes ago, Many Miles said:

What scripture acknowledges that prior to the flood humans could not eat carrion? The only pre-flood food prohibition I see is not to eat of the tree of knowledge. Are we supposed to believe that eating carrion was also a sin prior to the flood?

I have already mentioned and emphasized this previously. All you have to do is carefully read my post, am I not right? Everyone has the freedom to trust their conscience, but it is important to remember that our convictions are not always accurate. Our beliefs can be biased and misguided.

[Many Miles]

3 hours ago, George88 said:

I have already mentioned and emphasized this previously. All you have to do is carefully read my post, am I not right? Everyone has the freedom to trust their conscience, but it is important to remember that our convictions are not always accurate. Our beliefs can be biased and misguided.

 So pre-flood we know it was a sin to eat of the tree of knowledge. Do we agree on that?

Now, are we supposed to believe that eating carrion was also a sin prior to the flood?

Would Adam have jeopardized his perfect condition were he to have eaten carrion when he looked around creation and saw carrion being eaten as created by God?

[Many Miles]

Abel’s sacrifice

Among us there are some who feel that since the Bible does not rule out transplantation of human organs that accepting or rejecting such a transplantation should be left to personal conscience. And so it is among us.

With that in mind we have the biblical account of Abel’s sacrifice. The author attributed to this account is Moses. How Moses describes Abel’s sacrifice is of interest because of what he does and does not say about it. (Of course, what is unsaid could be endless, but there is an item or items of omission that are of particular interest to this subject)

Moses was very familiar with the various sacrificial offerings and statutory language depicting those offerings found in the Law of Moses. He wrote it. In the Genesis account Moses specifically uses the phrase “burnt offering” on at least seven occasions. These have to do with a sacrifice immediately after the flood, and with Abraham’s test of faith regarding sacrificing Isaac. This usage of “brunt sacrifice” is conspicuously absent in the account of Abel’s sacrifice. So, the omission spoken of is the notion that Abel’s sacrifice was a “burnt offering”.

Of Abel’s sacrifice Moses termed it “offering” and not “burnt offering”. Also, of Abel’s sacrifice Moses made sure to include that his offering included “even their fatty pieces”.

As compiler of the Law, Moses was familiar with the different sorts of sacrifices, and it was important as law giver that his readers could understand what he was describing. A burnt offering was one where the entire animal was consumed by fire. The offering that spoke about fatty pieces (not to be confused with fatty ashes) was the communion sacrifice (also known as peace offering). The main difference was that a burnt offering was not shared whereas the communal sacrifice was partly burned on the altar and partly eaten by the worshiper.

So, the question is, did Abel consume part of the sacrifice he made to God as part of a communion offering (peace offering)? This question arises because the offering mentions “fatty pieces” but not in the context of the statutory language “burnt offering” as Moses took care to do with later sacrifices spoken of in the Genesis account. Also, of the later instances in Genesis speaking of "burnt offering" sacrifices nothing is mentioned about "fat" or "fatty" pieces.

On this matter, also there is extra-biblical text in the form of the Babylonian Talmud that states “And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat [heleb] thereof. What thing is it whose ‘fat’ [heleb] [only] is offered on the altar, but the whole of it is not offered on the altar? Say, that is a peace-offering.”

So what does any of this have to do with transplantation of human organs? As it is true of transplantation of human organs it is also true of Abel eating meat. As the Bible does not rule out transplantation of human organs for us, it also does not rule out eating meat for Abel.

In other words, though the biblical account of Abel’s sacrifice does not say he ate any of the animal he sacrificed, it is also does not say he didn’t. It’s also true that the sole food prohibition documented for the time was of the tree of knowledge, not meat. Abel could have eaten part of his sacrifice to God as a communion offering.

[Many Miles]

The Raven

Speaking of a time prior to the end of the flood, we find this in our literature:

"By naturalists, the crafty raven is considered to be one of the most adaptable and resourceful of all birds. In view of this as well as its flying strength and ability to survive on a wide variety of food, including carrion, the raven was an apt candidate for being the first creature to be sent outside the ark by Noah at the time the waters of the Flood had begun to recede. The text indicates that the raven thereafter remained outside the ark, using it only as a resting-place.—Ge 8:5-7." (Ref https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003651 )

According to this, ravens using carrion as food is part of what made the animal an apt candidate to send outside that ark. This speaks directly to carrion eaters being created for the purpose of helping return dead carcasses to the earth. It's a part of God's testimony spoken by His creation. (Ref Ps. 19:1 Rom. 1:20 )

 

 

[Pudgy]

THAT is one heckofa STRETCH.

I give it a probability … and that’s how  I view  EVERYTHING … how probable is it! … of zero.

[Many Miles]

4 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

THAT is one heckofa STRETCH.

I give it a probability … and that’s how  I view  EVERYTHING … how probable is it! … of zero.

Of what? Abel eating meat? Can you think of a reason why he wouldn't?

- Vegetation can be just a lethal to humans as meat, depending on what you eat and when.

- Vegetation can spoil just as meat can.

- Meat can be stored by basic methods just like vegetation can.

So, if what you find improbable is the notion of Abel eating meat, why?

[Pudgy]

I personally believe Able was cooking up lambchops or some tasty animal on a homemade fireplace grill and sharing part of it with Jehovah.

Being a cartoon dog I have access to Mr. Peabody’s and his boy Sherman’s Wayback Machine and a SX-70 Polaroid Camera.

…… I will see what I can do.

 

[Many Miles]

Logical scriptural argument:

- If carrion was a kind of food eaten prior to the flood,

- Then carrion was stowed on the ark as food to be eaten by the human and animal passengers.

- Carrion was a kind of food eaten prior to the flood. “But this little fellow is essentially a scavenger, doing the work for which he was created: returning trash, garbage, and dead carcasses to the earth.” (Ref: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101992046?q=cockroaches&p=par , and Ps. 19:1)

- Carrion was stowed on the ark as food to be eaten by the human and animal passengers. Genesis 6:21 reads: “And on your part get yourself some of every kind of food that is eaten, and stow it with you, so as to have it for your eating and for theirs.” BLE (Ref: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/by/1/6 )

[Pudgy]

KEY POINT: 

This was BEFORE the Laws were given to Moses.  I personally believe Able was cooking up lambchops or some tasty animal on a homemade fireplace grill and sharing part of it withJehovah.

The Scripture quoted above means to me that 5 out of the 7 unclean animals brought aboard the Ark WERE FOOD FOR THE MEAT EATING ANIMALS!

THINK about it!

Why would Jehovah have over THREE TIMES as many “unclean” animals rescued as “clean” animals?

HE DIDN’T !!

They entered the Ark (the 7s) but they LEFT the Ark by 2s.

Like it or not, accept it or not … but Planet Earth has been populated by predator animals, and prey animals that are eaten for BILLIONS OF YEARS.

THAT IS THE ONLY REALITY THERE IS.

If it offends your delicate sensibilities Please know that it also offends my delicate sensibilities as well, but I realize THAT’s The Way The Real World Works!

Suck it up and don’t be such a pansy!

If you want to be a professional wimp, choose another topic, because EVERYTHING that lives has to EAT.

The dynamic aboard the Ark followed that pattern, as did Able’s lifestyle, and all persons and animals before the Flood, up until now.

All else is Disneyland fantasy.

[Many Miles]

51 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

...

 

Like it or not, accept it or not … but Planet Earth has been populated by predator animals, and prey animals that are eaten for BILLIONS OF YEARS.

...

Yes. For however many years, carnivores have been a part of earth's ecosystem from the beginning of biological life on the planet. If for no other reason these have always existed because it's an integral part of how carrion is decomposed. What happens in the natural world teaches this and, according to the Bible, the natural world is part of God's testimony. (Ps. 19:1)

[Matthew9969]

Is it possible Noah knocked out some bad people and kept them penned up to feed the meat eaters on the ark:P

[George88]

The speculation surrounding the mention of carrion meat is somewhat puzzling. It seems unlikely that Noah and his family would consume spoiled meat. Perhaps such a notion could appeal to a fictional scenario involving zombies, but it is highly improbable that Noah himself was deceased during the time he spent on the ark.

How people perceive Genesis 8:20 also plays a significant role.