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NEWS RELEASES | Jehovah’s Witnesses Close Transaction of Last Brooklyn Property Listed for Sale, One York Street

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    • By Jack Ryan
      GRAND TOTAL OF $2,194,513,000
      It was announced in 2003 that the printing was to be moved to Wallkill leading to the sell-off of six named properties in Brooklyn for a total of $302,620,000.
      It was announced in 2011 that the World Headquarters was to be moved to Warwick leading to a sell-off of twenty-seven named properties in Brooklyn for a total of $1,891,893,000.
      It is believed that the Watchtower still owns two small (non-commercial) residential properties in Brooklyn.
      .
      .
      Printing Moves to Wallkill
      .
      Property Price Date Sales Ledger 360 Furman Street $205,020,000 Apr 2004 Sales ledger 108 Joralemon Street $2,500,000 Apr 2005 Sales ledger 89 Hicks Street $14,000,000 Jul 2006 Sales ledger 67 Livingston Street $18,600,000 Mar 2007 Sales ledger 8-10 Clark Street $12,500,000 Apr 2007 Sales ledger Standish Hotel (169 Columbia Hts) $50,000,000 Nov 2007 Sales ledger TOTAL $302,620,000     .
      .
      World Headquarters Moves to Warwick
      .
      Property Price Date Sales Ledger 50 Orange Street $7,100,000 Dec 2011 Sales ledger 165 Columbia Heights $4,100,000 Jan 2012 Sales ledger 161 Columbia Heights $2,950,000 Mar 2012 Sales ledger 105 Willow Street $3,330,000 Apr 2012 Sales ledger 183 Columbia Heights $6,600,000 Apr 2012 Sales ledger 67 Remsen Street $3,250,000 Sep 2012 Sales ledger 34 Orange Street $2,825,000 Nov 2012 Sales ledger Bossert Hotel (98 Montague St) $81,000,000 Nov 2012 Sales ledger 200 Water St (173 & 177 Front St) $30,600,000 Mar 2013 Sales ledger 76 Willow Street $3,025,000 Jul 2013 Sales ledger 81 Prospect Street $23,000,000 Oct 2013 Sales ledger 64 Prospect St (117 Adams St) $46,000,000 Oct 2013 Sales ledger 175 Pearl Street $53,000,000 Oct 2013 Sales ledger 137 Pearl Street (77 Sands St) $54,000,000 Oct 2013 Sales ledger 107 Adams Street $64,000,000 Oct 2013 Sales ledger 124 Columbia Height (122 & 128 Columbia Hts) $105,000,000 Apr 2016 Sales ledger 25-30 Columbia Hts/55 & 67 Furman St $340,000,000 Aug 2016 Sales ledger 61 Adams Street $65,000,000 Nov 2016 Sales ledger 85 Jay Street $345,000,000 Dec 2016 Sales ledger 107 Columbia Heights $87,500,000 May 2017 Sales ledger 119 Columbia Heights $18,000,000 Aug 2017 Sales ledger 97 Columbia Heights $58,000,000 Aug 2017 Sales ledger 90 Sands Street $135,000,000 Aug 2017 Sales ledger Towers Hotel (21 Clark St) $202,500,000 Oct 2017 Sales ledger 74 Adams Street $60,000,000 Nov 2017 Sales ledger 30 Front Street (One York St) $91,113,000 Dec 2018 Sales ledger TOTAL $1,891,893,000     .
      .
      Watchtower Still Owns
      Property Type Link/s 80 Willow Street Townhouse Still owned by WT in September 2018 86 Willow Street Carriage House Still owned by WT in September 2018 .
      .
      NOTE Property Addresses: Some of the above properties - which sometimes span whole blocks - have a number of official addresses which are also sometimes different to the 'as-used' WT address. Although 'one' property sale is listed above, it might actually 'officially' represent up to four properties that are joined together. There where no property sales between November 2007 and December 2011.
      .
      Please comment below if you have a query
    • By JW Insider
      https://www.loopnet.com/locations/kingdom-hall-of-jehovah's-witnesses/listings/
       
      This LoopNet Kingdom Hall Of Jehovah's Witnesses tenant and owner information is organized and aggregated from public records and the millions of historical and current sale and lease listings provided by members of the LoopNet commercial real estate marketplace.
      To see how to get complete access to all of this Kingdom Hall Of Jehovah's Witnesses listing and property information, register for free:
                                    250 miles   500 km   Terms © 2018 HERE, © 2018 Microsoft Corporation     3161 Oro Bangor Highway
      Oroville, CA Very well maintained church building, with 171 padded seats, carpet, sound/video system with new very large cloth screen, office, room for n...
      $199,000 3,354 SF Bldg 1.14 AC Religious Facility 211 Spring Hill Road
      Trumbull, CT 4.97 acre approved for 30,000 sqft. office complex. One 10,000 sqft building, one 20,000 sqft building. Some site work has been completed...
      $1,350,000 4.97 AC Office (land) 513 Rock Creek Rd
      Toccoa, GA Exceptionally Well Maintained. MOVE IN READY. New roof, less than a year old. New carpet and paint. 2 new AC units. Full price offer in...
      $199,900 2,880 SF Bldg 0.77 AC Religious Facility 23385 Patterson St
      Clinton Township, MI Meticulously Maintained Bldg-Beautifully Landscaped-Many Uses i.e. Office Bldg, Banquet Hall, Restaurant, Church, Funeral Home, etc. Ceramic...
      $387,000 4,471 SF Bldg 1.01 AC Religious Facility 23385 Patterson
      Clinton Township, MI Meticulously Maintained Commercial Bldg-Beautifully Landscaped Has Potential for Many Uses! Could be Office Bldg, Banquet Hall, Restaurant,...
      $387,000 4,471 SF Bldg 1.01 AC Office Building   23385 Patterson St
      Clinton Township, MI Currently being used as a place of Worship. Meticulously Maintained Bldg-Beautifully Landscaped-Many Uses i.e. Office Bldg, Dentist Office,...
      $259,900 4,471 SF Bldg 1.08 AC Office Building 4215 W. Carson City Rd.
      Greenville, MI Newer, well maintained, retail building. Which has been used as an automobile dealership. High traffic on M-57 corridor. Very pleasant surro...
      $249,900 5,300 SF Bldg 0.75 AC Office Building 2237 Sherwood Avenue
      Tarboro, NC Solid building with numerous potential uses. Currently used as a church, but could be office, fraternal or community building, funeral home,...
      $275,000 5,040 SF Bldg 1.10 AC Religious Facility 501 San Clemente NW
      Albuquerque, NM Recently (2004) remodeled 3430+/-SF Building, Fully Fenced & gated, newer cement parking lot. Refrigerated Air, open floorplan, up to date l...
      $425,000 3,430 SF Bldg 0.90 AC Religious Facility     312 Unser Blvd NE
      Rio Rancho, NM " Free standing building with lots of excess land for expansion " Signalized intersection - Great signage potential - 23,600 VPD on Un...
      $849,000 3,200 SF Bldg 1.20 AC Free Standing Bldg     104 Buckner Road
      Dover, TN Turn key church. Immediate possession. Could easily be converted to office or restaurant. Space to seat over 200. Central alarm and fire pr...
      $249,900 3,915 SF Bldg Religious Facility 4950 Williams Rd
      Benbrook, TX PRICE REDUCED $30,000 BELOW APPRAISAL!!! 2 Story Property being used for religious meetings, Main Level has an auditorium for about 150, and...
      $425,000 7,700 SF Bldg 1.10 AC Office Building No Photo 23788 FM 1314
      porter, TX APPROX. 1.24 ACRES IN VERY, VERY BUSY TRAFFIC AREA. NEXT DOOR TO ESTABLISHED AUTO PARTS STORE. IT HAS APPROX 100 FT FM 1314 FRONTAGE AND 110...
      $215,000 1.24 AC Commercial/Other (land)
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      RFR Realty has closed its sale of 90 Sands Street in Dumbo to a low-income housing developer for $170 million, according to city records.
      After purchasing the building from the Jehovah’s Witnesses last year for $135 million with the intent of renovated the 600-key hotel, RFR dealt the property to Breaking Ground, a not-for-profit organization focused on creating and maintaining affordable housing.
      The sale was widely reported on earlier this summer. Christian Bautista of The Real Deal was the first to report on the sales closing, which was recorded on August 31, according to the city’s Department of Finance.
      Standing 30 stories tall and made of brick, 90 Sands stands between the entrance ramps to both the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges. It also shares a skybridge with a retail and office complex that includes Etsy, software companies and WeWork Dumbo Heights.
      Breaking Ground used a $157 million mortgage from the city’s Department of Housing Preservation and Development’s Supportive Housing Loan Program as well as a $10 million sponsor loan from its own housing development fund.
      Founded in 1990, Breaking Ground opened its first supportive housing center at the 652-unit Times Square Hotel in 1992 and now operates 3,500 units throughout the city, with roughly 1,000 more in the work, according to its website.
      Led by president and CEO Brenda Rosen, the organization is funded by donations, many of which are from corporate and institutional investors in the fields of real estate and finance.
      With properties in New York City, Stamford, Connecticut and Seattle, RFR Realty invests in office, residential, retail and hospitality assets.
      Neither company returned calls seeking comment on Tuesday afternoon.
      http://rew-online.com/rfr-realty-sells-90-sands-breaking-ground-homeless-housing-dumbo/
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Siberian Jehovah's Witnesses try to shield property from confiscation
      JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' REAL ESTATE DEAL RULED FICTITIOUS
      RIA Tomsk, 15 March 2018
      The Seversk city court ruled a transaction regarding real estate belonging to Jehovah's Witnesses to be fictitious. The property was transferred to federal ownership; similar cases are now being reviewed in another two district courts in Tomsk oblast. How and why this is happening is the topic of this RIA Tomsk article.
      The prosecutor's office acted as the initiator of a judicial investigation in Seversk (a satellite town of Tomsk). It sent a plaintiff's declaration to the Seversk city court for challenging the real estate deal on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses in Seversk. According to the prosecutor's office's account, the transaction bears a fictitious character and is intended to prevent the transfer of the property to the ownership of the Russian federation.
      Earlier, federal news media reported that in October 2016, a court issued a warning to the "Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia" regarding extremist activity. In March 2017, the Russian Ministry of Justice filed a lawsuit in the Supreme Court for finding the organization extremist, preventing its activity, and liquidating it, and it also suspended the activity of the movement within Russia. The lawsuit was granted on 20 April 2017.
      After the filing by the Russian Ministry of Justice (25 March 2017) of the administrative plaintiff's declaration in the Russian Supreme Court for the liquidation of the "Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia" and 395 local religious divisions that are part of its structure, the organization's property was transferred by the court to state income.
      However law enforcement agencies thought that local religious organizations, on order from the administrative center, undertook measures for shielding assets on the basis of fictitious transactions.
      Seversk precedent
      An example of such a transaction was discovered in the ZATO [closed administrative territorial formation] of Seversk in Tomsk oblast. The oblast prosecutor's office challenged the sales transaction of the premises of a house of worship by the Seversk organization of Jehovah's Witnesses.
      "The prosecutor's office of Tomsk oblast filed plaintiff's statements in the Seversk city court regarding the illegal alienation of immovable property of local religious organizations, the North Tomsk Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seversk Jehovah's Witnesses, by fictitious transactions. They had been eliminated from the Uniform State Register of Legal Entities in August 2017," a source in law enforcement agencies of the region explained.
      He said that on 10 March 2017, the Seversk religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses concluded a fictitious contract for sale of a building belonging to the organization and located in Seversk at 3 Komsomolskaia Street. At the same time, funds were not received in the organization's account. The investigation does not rule out the possibility that the money simply was appropriated by the leadership of this organization, which includes local bureaucrats.
      "The investigation established that Andrei Sergeevich Ledyaikin acted as the seller; he is a member of the committee of the 'Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia,'" the source stressed.
      The prosecutor's office of Tomsk maintained that this transaction was fictitious and aimed at the prevention of the transfer of the building and land to federal ownership. The court recognized the correctness of the prosecutor's office. In addition, similar cases now are ongoing in the October court of Tomsk and the court of Asino.
      Religious or commercial structure?
      According to information from public sources, the parent organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is registered not as a religious but as a commercial structure. More precisely, as a publishing house created in the U.S.A. The activity of Witnesses was prohibited in Russia on 20 April 2017 by the Russian Supreme Court for extremist activity. This was by no means a unique incident; this organization is considered dangerous in 37 countries, primarily Muslim countries.
      In the opinion of a docent of the history faculty of Tomsk State University, Dmitry Konikov, the Jehovah's Witnesses are not a purely religious organization. "But it is still incorrect to call Jehovah's Witnesses just a commercial organization. The commercialization of their activity is a rather recent trend," Konikov told RIA Tomsk.
      He said that to define some religious movement as a sect requires understanding from which doctrines its adherents derive.
      "A sect, like a heresy, is always the denial of belief in some doctrines asserted by a 'mother' church or teaching. At the same time, in the protestant movement there are many kinds of protestant churches and a single canon simply does not exist; there is no main line from which to depart is considered a heresy," the scholar explained.
      Perhaps the most blatant scandal involving Jehovah's Witnessses occurred several years ago in France, news media write. There a court ruled them to be a commercial structure and ordered recovery from the organization of unpaid taxes of more than four million euros. In the opinion of French authorities, the Witnesses conducted not religious but commercial activity. Of course, they appealed the decision to the European court.
      Some history
      According to historical information from TASS, the Jehovah's Witnesses are an international religious organization. It was founded in the 1870s in the U.SA., in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania, by a preacher, Charles Russell. The Jehovists deny a majority of Christian doctrines, including the creation of the world, the immortality of the soul, and the doctrine of the Trinity.
      Characteristic of this religious movement is the expectation of the imminent end of the world and the establishment of paradise on earth, where those whom the Jehovists consider to be worthy will live eternally. At the same time, it should be noted that none of their predictions of the end of the world have come true.
      The doctrines of the movement have frequently been revised. Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that while studying the Bible they come to new conclusions and reject older "mistakes" (for example, veneration of the cross). Jehovists do not recognize governmental institutions and civic obligations, they refuse service in the army, and they forbid blood transfusion, including for children.
      Unconditional submission to the will and goals of the organization is required from each adherent to the teaching. Nobody has the right to depart from it independently. The movement cultivates and supports among its devotees hostility to those who do not acknowledge its teaching. Because of this, Jehovists are often accused of inflaming religious hatred and many call it a sect.
      The main activity of Jehovah's Witnesses is the spreading of their teaching and the sale of their own literature. In the U.S.A. they have the possibility of conducting propaganda on radio and television. In order to advance its goals the movement uses a number of legal entities, the oldest and most well known of which is the "Watchtower Society." The funds of the organization are collected by contributions and sale of printed products, purchased and produced by adherents.
      The movement has a multi-layered administrative structure, headed by the Governing Body, consisting of ten to fifteen persons; as a rule, membership in it is life-long. The total number of active members of the movement is estimated to be about eight million persons. Jehovah's Witnesses' activity is forbidden in many countries, including China, North Korea, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Georgia, Tajikistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Iraq. (tr. by PDS, posted 15 March 2018)
      Editorial disclaimer: RRN does not intend to certify the accuracy of information presented in articles. RRN simply intends to certify the accuracy of the English translation of the contents of the articles as they appeared in news media of countries of the former USSR.
       
    • By Kurt
      Jehovahs Witnesses obey the secular laws in the lands in which they operate. This information would be on file for public review by the New York State Real Estate Office. The Christian Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses is a preaching organization, we believe, carrying out the same work that Jesus, Paul, and the faithful Christians in the first century engaged in. They are not a real estate holding company. Because the real estate market has boomed in many cities, including Brooklyn, New York, some of these properties have gained in value. Remember though that the Witnesses held firm in Brooklyn while the neighborhood around them was being left to decay.
      many do not realize how much property watchtower bible and tract society actually own. we take the work of spreading the kingdom news very seriously and are convinced that Jehovah God and his son have entrusted this responsability to this organization. therefore, it would take alot of money to accomplish the work of educating the entire population of this planet about Jehovah's ways and standards, and prepare them to survive armageddon. so even though most have not responded we continue to take the message throughout the earth in hopes that many more will listen and be saved.
      The watchtower bible and tract society holds title to: Properties in brooklyn new york; Facility near Walkill, NY; Agricultural Farmland (3-6 Sections) near Walkill, NY; Educational Center @ Patterson, NY Branch office properties in Toronto Canada, England, Europe; some parts of Africa; Most of the countries of South America; New Zealand, Austrailia, Indonesia, the Philipines, Japan, and Tiawan. The watchtower bible and tract society holds title to Notes secured by real estate on tens of thousands of properties as a result of "quick build" kingdom halls and renovations on other similar properties. (aggregate amount of notes estimated in 2004 to be in excess of $11,000,000,000 in the United States alone) Current estimate of existing market prices would place the value of the notes held in the United States in the neighborhood of $30 to $40 Billion as of 5-13-08 World wide the estimate aggregate value of real estate and debentures held would be in the neighborhood of $300 to $600 Billion. This does not include Owned or subsidized commercial operations. Those would increase that value by 25% to 50% more.
       
      But
      Russian court turns properties of banned JehovahÂ’s Witnesses over to government (the Russian)
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      River-to-River Trail to Provide a Pedestrian Route to Gunks
      From the Open Space Institute's website:
      River-to-Ridge Trail to Feature Local Agrarian Culture: http://www.osiny.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=9339
      Map of Trail: http://www.osiny.org/site/DocServer/River_to_Ridge_Trail_overview_7.27.pdf?docID=15461
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      The Jehovah’s Witnesses have had such a tremendous response to their Brooklyn land and office offerings that they have now hired Bob Knakal of Cushman & Wakefield to vet the wheat from the chaff.
      Additionally, with “dozens” of offers received from both locals and global players, sources say the bidders are also now expecting a winnowing second round.
      The Witnesses are selling both a rare 135,000-square-foot tract of vacant land at 85 Jay St. for a mixed-use project as well as the four-building office complex of 733,000 square feet at 25-30 Columbia Heights.
      Because of the interest and coming second round, pricing is now expected to be well over the $300 million mark, more akin to last year’s expected pricing.
      Sources: http://nypost.com/2016/03/09/jehovahs-witnesses-brooklyn-properties-see-price-surge/
      http://www.newyorknewsgrio.com/news/137011-jehovah%E2%80%99s-witnesses%E2%80%99-brooklyn-properties-see-price-surge.html
      http://news.nyomdagepek.hu/latest/jehovahs-witnesses-brooklyn-properties-see-price-surge

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    • I guess - according to you -  we can throw out all the scriptures which indicate the anointed will have heavenly bodies such as 1 cor 15 and revelations - too many places to mention.  Not even those which show they will be changed in an instant. And the scriptures in Hebrews which indicate that they will be priests in the heavenly temple of jehovah.   Jehovah is perfect in logic, so why give a heavenly body when a physical body is more suited to the earth?  The marriage of the lamb will take place where? Did Jesus give up his earthly body to receive a heavenly  spiritual body? And did he really say to his disciples they will be with him where he is? Agh, there are just too many scriptures which indicate it is a heavenly kingdom and heavenly rulership....and a heavenly priesthood - a function you have forgotten about by just wanting to " rule"......... .which tells me you are up to your same old, same old behaviours.  You boast you are of the body of christ...... so which "body" do you belong to which has perfect unity? . How many members?  Where do you meet?  And are you and your adherents fulfilling the prophesy that the good news of the kingdom will be preached throughout the earth?     
    • And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10  and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kingsr over the earth.”Rev 5:9,10 - NWT As a JW, this sounded accurate to me, since it fit the supporting doctrine that the “144,000” will rule strictly from heaven – “over” the earth...not within its vicinity, but from the spiritual realm.  What I have since learned about this scripture and Christ’s truth regarding where the anointed will be “ruling” from, has been an important turning point for me. Notice how the organization’s own Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures breaks down vs. 10: “and you made them to the God of us kingdom and priests and they are reigning upon the earth” Here are a few other examples: “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”  Scripture4all.org “…they will reign upon the earth”.  https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/5-10.htm It is very rare to find a Bible translation using the phrase “over the earth” in this scripture. The organization’s latest pictorial depiction of the 144,000 kings/priests ruling in heaven was of a vast array of emerald green thrones where men appearing identical to one another and to Christ, gazed over the earth as Christ’s “co-rulers”.  I wonder what the anointed JW women feel about a female’s apparent transition into a man, who are clones of each other.  This teaching sounds ridiculous to me today.  However, since the role of JW women is repeatedly slighted, should we expect any acknowledgement of the anointed being both male and female?  I could be in error, but I haven’t seen any photos of women partaking in the magazines.  There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.  Gal 3:28 To be one in Christ does not mean the faithful sealed anointed take on the same physical appearance as Christ. All of the members of a fleshly body are distinctly different in appearance; working separately yet collectively, with the unified goal to allow the body to work efficiently.  It is the same in the Body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:15-20  All are given various gifts, and all are individuals with individual personalities. They have abilities reflecting the gift they receive.  Paul described it this way: There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.  1 Cor 12:4-6 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 1 Cor 12:19,20 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized byone Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. 1 Cor 12:12-14 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.  Eph 4:11-16 The 144,000 are the Bride of Christ under the New Covenant “woman”/promise.   (2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:29-32; Gal 4:26) It is curious that the WT's leaders rarely go into detail about this.  When I recall their latest illustration described above, I don’t believe the artist had the idea of “bride” in mind. I could only sense an aura of steely authority, without the needed compassion and love that Jesus exhibited and taught his disciples to nurture within themselves. (Isa 42:3; Matt 14:14; John 13:34,35; 1 John 4: 17; Heb 4:15) Just as a bride and groom are not identical to each other, neither is Christ’s Bride of many members; either to Christ, or to one another, as the illustration erroneously shows. (1 Cor 12:29,30; Eph 4:11-13)  Marriage partners compliment and support each other in love.  It is the same with the Body of Christ, being united in one Spirit that imparts love, faith and knowledge of Christ and the Father. The organization’s leaders are unable to perceive this spiritual unity, since they have rejected the Spirit of Christ, in exchange for the spirit of Satan.  (John 15:4-7;1 Cor 6:15-17; 2 Cor 11:3; 2 Pet 1:10; Rev 2:4; 8:10;13:11) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  1 Cor 2:12-14  In order to “rule on the earth”, God’s priests must be on the earth.  If we can shed the false belief that once the 144,000 are sealed in “heaven” they will remain there, we are then able to grasp how such “heavenly” angel/messenger/priests will be found ruling, teaching, and helping God’s future children on the earth.  (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 1:14; Rev 5:9,10)   We can comprehend God’s “new creation” as having two “births”; one by fleshly parents through Adam and Eve, (Gen 2:7) and one by spiritual parents.  (John 3:3,5; 1 Cor 15:50; John 15:45; 20:22; Gal 4:26) Once Jesus was resurrected, he appeared many times to his disciples in the flesh; and just as easily, disappeared into the spirit realm.   His example set the precedence of what it means to be a “new creation”.  (Mark 16:12; John 21:14; 1 Cor 15:3-8)  By combining this event with Pearl Doxsey's help from her article, “Who are the gods?”, we can visualize the 144,000 “angels” present not only in the spirit realm, but on earth as well: The sons of God ("gods") inherit the promises given to Abraham. What promises are these? "I will make you very fruitful (John 15:8) I will make nations of you (Rev 5:9,10), and kings will come from you (Rev 20:4; 1:5; 3:21; 19:16,15; 2:26,27)". “Jacob had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.  There above it stood the Lord, and he said: "I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying  (Ps 37:29; Heb 2:5,16; Gal 3:29; Heb 11:8-10; 13:14; Rev 21:2; Heb 12:22,23; Luke 10:20) (Gen.17:6).  Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring (Rev 22:2). I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go (Matt 28:20), and I will bring you back to this land (Rev 21:7).  I will not leave you (John 14:18) until I have done what I have promised you (John 16:22).  Jacob was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place (Heb 12:22,23,28)! This is none other than the house of God (1 Cor 3:9,16; Isa 56:7; Eph 2:19,10); this is the gate of heaven (Rev 11:6; Matt 16:19; Rev 3:12; John 10:9; 2 Cor 5:20)." (Gen.28:12-15,17) "Jesus added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open (Luke 24:32; Rev 2:17; Matt 13:11; Rev 4:1; 1:1)  (John 3:12; 1 Cor 2:12,13; Col 3:2), and the angels of God ascending and descending (Heb 12:22; Eph 2:6; Rev 3:21) "on* (Greek--*"in service to") the Son of Man.” (John 1:51) The "angels" (Lit. Greek, "messengers" – Isa 43:10,21; 1 Pet 2:9; Mal 2:7; Acts 1:8) referred to here, could not have served before the time of Christ (John 3:13) Jesus specifically said that they are in service on "the Son of Man" (1 Cor 4:1).  The "Son of Man" is Jesus in the flesh (John 1:14). Therefore, these angels serve Christ, after his coming down from heaven.  To be a messenger of Christ ("ambassador") who harbors God's spirit of life within... who has been made new (Rom 12:2; 8:11) as a part of God's new creation (2 Cor 5:17) by means of incorruptible seed, the Word of God (1 Pet 1:23; Luke 8:11)... …who has been reborn as a Son of the Most High (John 3:3,5; Rom 8:16,17,19,28-30)... who has been made an immovable pillar in the eternal heavenly Temple of God (Rev 3:12; Prov 9:1; Jer 1:18)... ...is a "god" (Ps 82:6; Rom 8:14; 1 Cor 8:5).  I do hope readers here find this information to be a personal turning point as it was for me, in learning that both Christ and the 144,000 kings and priests/ Bride of Christ, will have access to heaven as well as on earth, and living among God’s future children in the Kingdom. “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.” Matt 5:14  Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. Rev 21:1-3  “But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple” Rev 21:22 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. Rev 22:3-5 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1 Cor 3:16 Pearl Doxsey: (type in her name and the title of the article in the search bar. The link should appear) “End of the New Covenant” “Those not anointed – what benefit now?” “The Holy City”   PLEASE SEE AND ENJOY,   “The Holy City” - http://pearl-holycity.blogspot.com/   Pearl Doxsey, “End of the New Covenant” Those not anointed-what benefit now? - http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/04/i-received-two-questions-1.html         And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” (Heb.1:6) "Jesus will again, be brought into the world. At that time, the totality of his angels/messengers, will worship him... and be in service to, the Son of Man."  Pearl Doxsey
    • We do have very good reasons, the math for 1914 wouldn't work out otherwise Yes, I think we would laugh. After all, messing around with numbers to "fit something you want it to fit" sounds pretty cultish. When looking at this subject again, in light of Br. Splane's talk about types and antitypes, and how he said that (paraphrased) we have to make sure that when we are talking about types, that they are genuine types, because the word of God says they are puts a whole different slant on it. Then the idea is enforced even further when he says who is to decide if a person or event is a type, if the word of God doesn't say anything about it and he quotes Br. Shroeder: ( We need to exercise great care when applying accounts in the Hebrew Scriptures as prophetic patterns or types if these accounts are not applied in the Scriptures themselves). Therefor reading the account in Daniel 4 without any preconceived ideas, I see these main lessons: verse 17  "This is by the decree of watchers, and the request is by the word of the holy ones, so that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.”  Lesson: (quite self explanatory really) Jehovah can do what he wants because he is the ultimate sovereign. verse 27  "Therefore, O king, may my counsel be acceptable to you. Turn away from your sins by doing what is right, and from your iniquity by showing mercy to the poor. It may be that your prosperity will be extended". Lesson: Listen to Jehovah and do right, otherwise Jehovah will discipline you. verse 37  “Now I, Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar, am praising and exalting and glorifying the King of the heavens, because all his works are truth and his ways are just, and because he is able to humiliate those who are walking in pride. Lesson: similar to above, and also proof that Jehovah carries out his discipline.  ---------------- The reasoning put forward as to why this particular chapter of Daniel (4) has greater meaning (paraphrased from WT October 2014) is that the book of Daniel has a central theme, that of God's Kingdom, and keeps pointing forward to the establishment of that Kingdom under the rulership of his Son, Jesus. For example what it says in Daniel 2:44: "“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever.” I can see that Daniel Ch 2 is talking about Neb's. dream of the statue, representing subsequent rulerships, and that during the feet period God's Kingdom will come. In my opinion this is one valid and definite description of when the Kingdom will come. Then Chapters 7 and 8 are full of cryptic beasts, Chapter 9 prophesy about the coming of the Messiah including his cutting off, chapter 11 more cryptic descriptions, this time involving the king of the north and south, and the last chapter (12) the time of the end with Michael standing up. I need an encoder! I must admit, because of my more practical disposition, when we studied the Daniel book, I did not pay enough attention. My son was quite small and I had my hands full, and I can't even remember if we studied it again after that? For example what are these numbers about?: Daniel 12:11  “And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days. 12  “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!" (It's ok, no need to answer, I can look it up myself).   ,Sorry, I was being confusing. I didn't mean 607 was special. I meant what happened when counting 2520 years from that date, I meant that 1914 was a very significant year. (have to go, will carry on later)
    • My daughter would play her album Time After Time, over and over. When I found out that Eva Cassidy had already died when the album came out, it kind of made a few of the songs sound even more "haunting" than they already were.
    • Wow  she died of melanoma at the age of 33!!
    • I think you are wrong. The GB and or others at the top, make rules that are not from scripture. The Elders enforce those rules blindly. In Jesus time the religious leaders did the same thing. 'Putting heavy loads on the shoulders of others, which they would not even use a finger to help'. And actually the baptism questions / at baptism, a person agrees to become 'One of Jehovah's Witnesses', so it is much like a contract.  Also the Elders use the threat of disfellowshipping someone, which then means the person will be shunned by maybe 100 or more people / the whole congregation. And it could also mean the loss of business because JWs won't do business with D'fed ones.  Whereas 'interested ones' that go to meetings and do ministry, are not ruled over by the Elders. True that elders could stop an unbaptised one from doing ministry. but that is all they can do.  An Elder does not have the authority to tell an unbaptised person not to talk to a D'fed person.  I think that on some occasions the 'law of the land' shows more justice and mercy than the JW org.  And the rules of the GB /JW Org go beyond the things written in the scriptures. The GB themselves know this and have had to tell their lawyers and elders to lie in courts because of it. 
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