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Conscience individual and collective


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1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

They developed a conscience after Satan exposed it to them, That's why it's on our DNA.

Don't understand.

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

you are confusing, between conscience and morals and standards.

How is conscience formed? How is morality formed? How is the standard formed?

How people changing conscience, moral and standard?

...and other things in connection with these three.

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I liked your KH building experience. We've all had that experience when we would have made different decisions if we were in charge, and then we are glad we weren't. But I can't seem to fit your musing on conscience into what I thought was the most common use of the term "conscience" in the Bible. Of course, it might be right anyway, depending on what you mean by consequences. For example: Let's say that you would love the experience of eating roast beef a couple times a week, but depe

This final sentence should have ended with a question mark but did not.  I’m stumbled.

I know where you’re coming from, but I agree with Anna. I think it is not good to describe the brotherhood this way. I think it because the scriptures lay no emphasis at all on this “deficiency,” if it is one. Instead, they goes out of their way to show favor to such ones. They pay no attention to the head. They only pay attention to the heart.  “Wisdom cries aloud from the street,” the Bible says. “Hogwash,” comes the answer from the learned ones. “It cries aloud from the quadrangles. Only

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1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

Xero made some important comment about an 'authority' demanding that it's followers believed even things not understood. Then Xero extended that by saying that those people that were forced to believe, had to tell those things not understood, to other people.  Basically, doing the ministry or cart work. 

Xero:  I'm trying to find a way to formulate, by way of illustration or otherwise (the shorter the explanation the better), the dividing line between conscience and scriptural responsibility and actively being told by authority that some non-obvious thing is true and that one must believe the non-obvious thing is true and teach someone else in the same manner that this non-obvious thing is true.

dividing line between conscience and scriptural responsibility

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Once again, you are confusing, between conscience and morals and standards.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves - Rom 2 14

Gentiles don't have "Law", don't have "Knowledge", don't have WTJWorg "moral and standard".....but have "Natural driving forces" to act in a way as God accepts. 

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

How is conscience formed? How is morality formed? How is the standard formed?

How people changing conscience, moral and standard?

...and other things in connection with these three.

DEVELOPMENT!! Your parents teach you morals and standards. The Bible teaches you Christian ethics. You decide what your conscience is, no one else.

What's the meaning behind Genesis 2:17? Had the first pair not eaten from the tree of knowledge, NOTHING evil would have been awoken. In that very moment, their DNA changed to include death. The deterioration of that perfect, human cell. Whose fault was it? The Devil, or the first pair as well.

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12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

DEVELOPMENT!! Your parents teach you morals and standards. The Bible teaches you Christian ethics. You decide what your conscience is, no one else

 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves - Rom 2 14

Gentile parents teach their gentile children about own morals and standards, with or without "Christian" ethics. And they, parents and children, decide in mutual interactions what sort of conscience they will have and grow. How do you explain, where is the place/position and influence of "nature" spoken in Romans 2:14 in that process? And how do you explain that Romans 2:14 speaking in favour, very positive about them, gentile people, in comparison to Roman congregation to which Paul directed those chapters?  

Verse 15 continue with:

They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

Which and whose requirements was written on their hearts? When and how? Because their parents was "gentile" distanced(??) from "Christian" moral, standards and ethics.

I agree with some of your thoughts how there are unknown and invisible processes around all this. 

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17 hours ago, César Chávez said:
21 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I forgive all your insults and laugh at them too.

Oh! You're the better person. LOL! I think not. 😁

Somehow this reminds me of the old riddle:

There are 2 doors: life and death. There are 2 trolls: a lying one and a truth telling one. You have to get through the right door by asking both trolls the same question. (Only one question.)

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22 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

There are 2 doors: life and death. There are 2 trolls: a lying one and a truth telling one. You have to get through the right door by asking both trolls the same question. (Only one question.)

You're going to have me racking my brain all day now!

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5 minutes ago, Anna said:

You're going to have me racking my brain all day now!

LOL. That's what happened to me when I first heard this one as a kid and there was no Internet. These days I would rack my brain for only an hour at most and then just Google "two trolls" for the answer.

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3 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

LOL. That's what happened to me when I first heard this one as a kid and there was no Internet. These days I would rack my brain for only an hour at most and then just Google the answer.

Those were exactly my thoughts! 😂

I would obviously die without Google!

P.s. I'm thinking it's one of these very obvious things that you can't get if you think too hard. And then when you hear the answer you have a face palm moment.

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6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Gentile parents teach their gentile children about own morals and standards, with or without "Christian" ethics.

Are you talking about Christians, or are you trying to add other religions that is NOT a focus here. Try to stay focused on the issue you are arguing about. Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus, even other Christian sects, teach their children on what they believe their traditional moral and standards are.

But, since you are arguing as an ex-witness on this general forum not made for true witnesses to enter and be misled, then, you are arguing how the Watchtower deals with everyday life in "supporting" their members to live a "true" Christian life based on the first century Christian standard by Christ own commandments.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Which and whose requirements was written on their hearts? When and how? Because their parents was "gentile" distanced(??) from "Christian" moral, standards and ethics.

This is the most "obtuse" forum of reasoning. I'm embarrassed, JWI agrees with this argument. When were the "gentiles" INCLUDED in Christian life? Did Paul by any chance, suggest TWO different Christian standards in the lives of Jews and Gentile?

Don't confuse, TRADITION with morals and standards, and if JWI is feeding you garbage through private message, research.

This way, you will understand, the Christian life Jesus spoke of was meant for EVERYONE!

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Somehow this reminds me of the old riddle:

There are 2 doors: life and death. There are 2 trolls: a lying one and a truth telling one. You have to get through the right door by asking both trolls the same question. (Only one question.)

If you are referring to JWI and Anna, then it's a simple, riddle. 

The other side of this riddle is, Both trolls continue to portray a Christian life while making sport and poking fun at other peoples expense.  I believe, your continued denial of insulting others in a subtle way has once again been exposed.

But, as expected, once a liar, always a liar.

Where’s that "obtuse" TTH when he needs to defend you both. That way, he can spin it to make you both look like, saints.

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Musing more on conscience.

To listen to some, you'd imagine they'd suggest that to promote adherence to the Bible or any particular denomination one would have to first find one which currently had zero debatable anomalies in official statements from any imaginable scriptural, historical, archaeological or scientific "truths" perspective w/regard to belief otherwise to these, you're committing some kind or moral crime unless you in detail provide an exhaustive analysis of defects along w/the appendices of apologias on each side of the arguments.

 

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