Jump to content
The World News Media

Chilean flag displayed in Kingdom Halls


HollyW

Recommended Posts


  • Views 1.2k
  • Replies 11
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Member
2 hours ago, HollyW said:

Are Kingdom Halls in Chile being allowed to display the Chilean flag on September 18th in order to avoid a fine?

If the conscience of the local body of elders permits, then flags can be displayed in any country on any day if required by the state. It's a bit like meat offered to idols. It's the ritual of false worship Christians avoid, with due consideration for conscience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
2 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

If the conscience of the local body of elders permits, then flags can be displayed in any country on any day if required by the state. It's a bit like meat offered to idols. It's the ritual of false worship Christians avoid, with due consideration for conscience.

Hmmm....would that be the appropriate comparison?   Isn't meat offered to idols a ritual of false worship?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
6 hours ago, HollyW said:

 Isn't meat offered to idols a ritual of false worship?

As you are probably aware, the ritual of offering is the false worship bit. The meat....well that's just the edible bit. (Although likely unattractive to vegetarians regardless).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
48 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

As you are probably aware, the ritual of offering is the false worship bit. The meat....well that's just the edible bit. (Although likely unattractive to vegetarians regardless).

Your comparison of offering meat to an idol being the same as displaying a national flag means the Chilean JWs are engaging in false worship.  Didn't think you'd want to do that, but there it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Is not a worshipful ritual. It is just what you said it is. It's like having a country insignia on one's car plate.

image.png

I dunno 'bout that, Eoin.  Obviously one isn't involved in what the government puts on your car's license plate, but someone is surely involved in going into a Kingdom Hall and draping a national flag in the window.

Makes one wonder how much "worshipful ritual" was required of JWs in Malawi when it came to purchasing a required political card.  Not much difference in getting a license for their car.....or pledging an oath to uphold a country's constitution to get a passport.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
2 hours ago, HollyW said:

what the government puts on your car's license plate

Is it compulsory to have the flag on a car license plate now in Chile?

2 hours ago, HollyW said:

Makes one wonder how much "worshipful ritual" was required of JWs in Malawi when it came to purchasing a required political card.  Not much difference in getting a license for their car.....or pledging an oath to uphold a country's constitution to get a passport.

Does make you wonder, I agree. I have talked to Malawi brothers many years ago, but without the insight I have now.

"worshipful ritual" required? Probably not much more than what was involved in getting the release document signed in the Nazi camps during Hitler's rule.

As for getting a license plate or passport? Yeah, probably not much more effort for those either, but "apples and oranges" with regard to the "worship" aspect. (for me, that is).

Are you connected with a Christian group that resisted the Nazis in this way? Or the MCP for that matter?

PS. Docs below not direct translation of each other. Just samples.

Release doc.jpg

Release doc Eng.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
4 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Is it compulsory to have the flag on a car license plate now in Chile? 

Does make you wonder, I agree. I have talked to Malawi brothers many years ago, but without the insight I have now.

"worshipful ritual" required? Probably not much more than what was involved in getting the release document signed in the Nazi camps during Hitler's rule.

As for getting a license plate or passport? Yeah, probably not much more effort for those either, but "apples and oranges" with regard to the "worship" aspect. (for me, that is).

No, it isn't compulsory to have the flag on a car license plate but it is compulsory to have a license plate on your car.  It's compulsory to display the Chilean flag at the Kingdom Hall on Sept 18-19 or pay a fine.  It was compulsory to have a political card in Malawi or be brutalized.  Even in countries where voting is not compulsory, JWs can go to the polls and even into the polling booth in order to avoid penalties and/or physical harm.  Were Malawi JWs asked to renounce their faith in Jehovah when they bought a political card?  No, so the release document in the Nazi camps is not the same thing as buying a political card in Malawi.  If JWs can give all the appearances of taking part in political elections in order to avoid harm, why would they not be allowed to buy a political card for the same reason?  There's no worshipful ritual involved in it.  And, really, as far as JWs voting, they would have to have registered to vote to even be able to go into a polling booth.  So there's that to consider as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
13 hours ago, HollyW said:

No, so the release document in the Nazi camps is not the same thing as buying a political card in Malawi.

Not explicitly, but, for me, implied. And giving approval to the MCP's treatment of dissenters.

Unfortunately, in all these scenarios there is very little or no comment from any who have actually faced the issue. (Save 3rd party examples). I am not really clear on where you actually stand on the examples listed, and I certainly don't know what you would do in a real-life scenario. Not that you are in any way accountable to me.

Why are you so concerned about what JWs do anyway? Were you one once?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 6/10/2017 at 9:35 PM, The Librarian said:

See my response on this thread:

 

Thank you, Librarian.  From the WTS letter to the Chilean elders, it seems similar to their view of going to a 4th of July celebration here in the US...it's okay for JWs to attend and join in watching the fireworks, etc, as long as they aren't having feelings of patriotism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Definitely should try the Bond roll here when you get a chance: this is a mom and pop place that does a great job  
    • An interesting concept, bible discipline. I am struck by the prevalence of ignorance about spiritual discipline on "Reddit." While physical and mental disciplines receive attention, the profound impact of spiritual discipline on a person's physical and mental well-being is often overlooked. Is it possible to argue against the words of the Apostle Paul? When he penned those words in Hebrews 12, he was recognizing that there are moments when an individual must be "rebuked" in order to be corrected. Even Jesus himself established a precedent when he rebuked Peter and referred to him as Satan for failing to comprehend what Jesus had already revealed to the apostles. Did that imply that Jesus had an evil heart? Not at all, it was quite the opposite; Jesus had a loving heart. His need to correct Peter actually showcased his genuine love for him. If he hadn't cared, he would have let Peter persist in his mistaken ways, leading to a fate similar to Judas'. There is a clear emphasis on avoiding the apostate translation and its meaning, yet many seem to overlook the biblical foundation for the reasons NOT to follow the path of the fallen brethren or those with an apostate mentality. Those individuals have embraced the path of darkness, where the illuminating power of light cannot penetrate, to avoid receiving the righteous discipline based on God's Bible teachings. They are undoubtedly aware that this undeniable truth of life must be disregarded in order to uphold their baseless justifications for the unjust act of shunning. Can anyone truly "force" someone or stop them from rejecting a friend or family member? Such a notion would be absurd, considering the fact that we all have the power of free will. If a Witness decides to distance themselves from a family member or friend simply because they have come out as gay, who is anyone within the organization to question or challenge that personal sentiment? It is unfortunate that there are individuals, both within and outside the organization, who not only lack a proper understanding of the Bible but also dare to suggest that God's discipline is barbaric. We must remember that personal choices should be respected, and it is not for others to judge or condemn someone based on their sexual orientation but should be avoided under biblical grounds. No one should have the power to compel an individual to change their sexual orientation, nor should anyone be forced to accept someone for who they are. When it comes to a family's desire to shield their children from external influences, who has the right to challenge the parents' decision? And if a family's rejection of others is based on cultural factors rather than religious beliefs, who can impose religious judgment on them? Who should true followers of Christ follow? The words of God or those who believe they can change God's laws to fit their lives? How can we apply the inspired words of Paul from God to embrace the reality of God's discipline? On the contrary, how can nonconformists expect to persuade those with a "worldview" that their religious beliefs are unacceptable by ostracizing individuals, when God condemns homosexuality? This is precisely why the arguments put forth by ex-witnesses are lacking in their pursuit of justice. When they employ misguided tactics, justice remains elusive as their arguments are either weak or inconsistent with biblical standards. Therefore, it is crucial to also comprehend Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9:27. The use of the word "shun" is being exaggerated and excessively condemned by those who reject biblical shunning as a form of punishment. Eph 5:3-14 NIV 3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person — such a man is an idolater — has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.  8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible. The impact of the message becomes significantly stronger when we emphasize the importance of avoiding any association with unrighteousness and those who remain unrepentant. In fact, it becomes even more compelling when we witness how some individuals, who dismiss biblical shunning as a method of discipline, excessively criticize and condemn the use of the word "shun". Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses do not shun people; instead, they choose to focus on the negative actions being committed, which is in accordance with biblical teachings. This should be construed as ex-Witness rhetoric. Now, let's consider why ex-Witnesses specifically target one particular religion. What justifications do they provide when other Christian denominations also adhere to the same principle grounded in the Bible? Chapter 1 - Preface Both must therefore test themselves: the one, if he is qualified to speak and leave behind him written records; the other, if he is in a right state to hear and read: as also some in the dispensation of the Eucharist, according to  custom enjoin that each one of the people individually should take his part. One's own conscience is best for choosing accurately or shunning. And its firm foundation is a right life, with suitable instruction. But the imitation of those who have already been proved, and who have led correct lives, is most excellent for the understanding and practice of the commandments. "So that whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup."  It therefore follows, that every one of those who undertake to promote the good of their neighbours, ought to consider whether he has betaken himself to teaching rashly and out of rivalry to any; if his communication of the word is out of vainglory; if the the only reward he reaps is the salvation of those who hear, and if he speaks not in order to win favour: if so, he who speaks by writings escapes the reproach of mercenary motives. "For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know," says the apostle, "nor a cloak of covetousness. God is witness. Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome as the apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children."   (from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 2) Divine promises 2. The manner of shunning, in the word escaping. There is a flying away required, and that quickly, as in the plague, or from a fire which hath almost burned us, or a flood that breaketh in upon us. We cannot soon enough escape from sin (Matt 3:7; Heb 6:18). No motion but flight becomes us in this case. Doctrine: That the great end and effect of the promises of the gospel is to make us partakers of the Divine nature. (from The Biblical Illustrator)  
    • Clearly, they are already demanding your exile. Yes! It's unfortunate that Pudgy spoiled a great discussion about science. I hope the discussion can continue without any more nonsensical interruptions. Just a suggestion since they are on your heels. Wow! You speak! It seems you have a lot to say! Now they are going to treat like, who do you think you are, mister big stuff! Are those aliens now going to imply that anyone who speaks out against the five or six key contributors to this site will be treated as though it is George just because those in opposition speak the language they hate to hear, the TRUTH? They are seeking individuals who will embrace their nonconformist values and appreciate what they can offer in shaping public opinion contrary to the established agenda of God and Christ. Their goal is to enhance their writing abilities and avoid squandering time on frivolous pursuits, mainly arguing about the truth they don't care for. They see it all as a mere game, even when leading people astray. They believe they have every right to and will face no biblical repercussions, or so they believe. They just want to have fun just like that Cyndi Lauper song. Be prepared to be belittled and ridiculed, all the while they claim to be angels. Haha! By the way, please refrain from using the same language as George. They appear to believe that when others use the same words, it means they are the same person, and they emphasize this as if no one else is allowed to use similar grammar. It seems they think only they have the right to use the same or similar writing styles. Quite amusing, isn't it? See, what I just placed in bold, now I'm George, lol! Now, let's leave this nice science thread for people that want to know more about science. I believe George left it at "Zero Distance."  
    • Nice little thread you’ve got going here, SciTech. It would be a shame if something were to happen to it.
    • It's truly disheartening when someone who is supposed to be a friend of the exclusive group resorts to using profanity in their comments, just like other members claiming to be witnesses. It's quite a ludicrous situation for the public to witness.  Yet, the "defense" of such a person, continues. 
  • Members

  • Recent Status Updates

    • lauleb  »  misette

      merci pour ton travail très utile. tu es une aide qui fortifie
      · 0 replies
    • Pamela Dunston  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hi, TB
      I would like to get the weekly meeting and watchtower materials  and the 2024 convention 
      Attend the 2024 Convention—“Declare the Good News!”
      notebook, I just recently got a new computer, If don't mind my brother to add me on and allow me access to our study again.
       
      Thank you, so much
      Sister Dunston
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24  »  DARLENE2022

      Hello, Darlene, I just love your name, I had a cousin named Darline, and had a classmate also named Darlene! It's a pleasure to know another Darlene! Especially a Spiritual Sister! There's some websites, Ministry Ideaz , JW Stuff.com, and Etsy that I use to order my yearly buttons for the Conventions! They always send me what I order, and their also Jehovah's Witnesses, that send us the merchandise we order!  You can check out these websites, and they might have what your looking for! I hope I have been helpful in assisting you, Darlene! Agape love, Shirley!😀
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24

      2024"Enter Into God's Rest" Circuit Assembly! 
      · 0 replies
    • Janice Lewis  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hello Twyla, when will the weekly study material be available. I am a member.
      Janice Lewis     lewisjanice84@gmail.com
      Thank you
      · 1 reply
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      159.9k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,690
    • Most Online
      1,773

    Newest Member
    BABA
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.