What does not passing the collection plate really mean anyway?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

and humor goes something like this ...

" ... and Jesus knew that Judas was skimming from the money box, when he saw the Rolex hour-glass on his wrist."

well ... attempt at humor, perhaps.

[Evacuated]

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

( I for a very long time have  thought it was amazing that the human body is a bag of water, with a valve AT THE BOTTOM, to release gas pressure ...)

Although it would be true to say that a modification in many cases has placed a very effective gas -blasting vent at the top of the body, a few inches below the eyes........

 

Anyway, stay on topic! This thread is about passing plates...not wind!

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

..don't get 'em mixed up.

[TrueTomHarley]

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I noticed that once again, AS ALWAYS ... you refused to address any actual issue I brought up, this time by devolving into an absurd extrapolation about the "12 dopes".

Actually, I think that is the answer.

I did start it as a joke, you are right. But I also recognized that, at its root, it was the answer. Jesus didn't do it. Judas stole from the money box. A simple account system would have caught him. Yet Jesus never did it.

Expanding, we have 1 Corinthians 6:2 

do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you not competent to try very trivial matters? Do you not know that we will judge angels? Then why not matters of this life?

If the holy ones back then were to be entrusted with our spiritual lives, were they incapable of handling 'unrighteous riches?'

Accounting methods are rather strict now in the congregations. Two brothers count all donations from the contribution box. Two sign off. It is all under the supervision of the Secretary. It is similar at the circuit level. Are we to imagine it disappears above the circuit level? What disappears is anyone feeling they have an obligation to report such things to you. In your case, I can easily understand it. If you twist undeniably good deeds to make them seem vile, exaggerate any missteps, and ignore any mitigating factors, and without exception impute bad motives, what would you do when you found they upgraded from Pepsident toothpaste to Crest?

Should they report? I guess you could make a case for it. But I think the greater case is for not doing it, in view of 1 Corinthians 6. It's not the exact same thing, but in principle it is.

What is public accounting? It is a requirement imposed by government upon public corporations. Does it work? It can be circumvented. A relative of mine works for a publicly traded company which recently bought another publicly traded company. His company is a very well known name, and the purchased company is well known to industry groups. It turns out that the purchased company managed to conceal billions of dollars of fraud, despite public accounting, and the buyer is now in danger of going under. (and the relative worries about his job)

In Rochester, Wegmans is the premiere company putting the city on the map. It replaces Kodak in that role. Arguably one might say Paychex instead of Wegmans, but I'll hang with Wegmans. People love Wegmans. It is Whole Foods where, if you plan, you can avoid spending your whole paycheck. (if you don't - watch out! - but with minimal fuss, you can) It has been called the best run grocer in the country and perhaps the world. There are 70-80 stores in the eastern U.S. Whoever does the ratings - is it Forbes? - consistently ranks it among the top ten best places to work in the entire country.

It is a private corporation and never reports to the public. Does that mean it keeps no accounts? No. It just doesn't feel the obligation to report to the rank and file.

The demand to render public accounting, to me, seems but a manifestation of another form of human self-rule - in particular, democracy. It is faith that the people should scrutinize every nickel spent and that is the only way to keep those running the show honest. As the examples above show, it is not necessarily a valid premise. It is easily circumvented.

I was joking when I said we could smell fraud when Anthony Morris upgrades to a bigger dorm room, but once again, there is truth to it. Let there be some evidence of chicanery before you assume your democratic method is the be-all and end-all. If they released financial reports they would have to add layers and layers of Bethel experts to defend themselves against countless people like you that simply want to take them down and use any possible pretext to do it. It would be rather like the Mueller investigation, which is the continuation of an effort that has lasted almost a year now to dig up evidence of wrongdoing with regard to the President and Russia. So far they have found none, but the mandate is unlimited and is not confined to Russia, (this is my understanding, but I could be wrong) Since the POTUS is human, they will certainly find something in time, and will attempt to use it to take him down - which is the sole object in the first place. Should Bethel do the same for its enemies? They just want to take it down.

The line that invariably gets the largest applause at the Regional Convention is: "Would you like to convey your greetings to Bethel?" It is obvious why that is. People look around them and see evidence everywhere that whatever donations they have made are being spent wisely. The many examples referred to in the previous post prove that to them. They don't feel the need to monitor Bethel for crooks and they are confident that, should crooks appear, the overall upright character of the organization will handle it.

[TrueTomHarley]

8 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Your replies are in effect ..

" oh yeah?

 Oh Yeah?

 OH YEAH?

 OH YEAH?

 OH YEAH?

 OH YEAH? "

YEAH!

Moreover, except for one jab, the reply I made before that provoked a rebuke from you that I should 'grow up' was well-reasoned and respectful. So it must be the jab that made you mad, which was an observation of how our lovable cartoon characters, Caleb and Sophia, despite their tender years, still come off as more mature than you.

Do I back down from that assessment?

[Witness]

20 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

 

I'm sorry, @Witness, I just can't do it. Count it as my weakness if you must. I just can't suffer you clobbering me with scriptures that do nothing but continue your harangues. The Governing Body can hardly be accused of subtlety, but even they do not punctuate every sentence with myriad scriptures. They instead recommend daily Bible reading, then they assume the familiarity that comes therefrom and do not have to quote a Bible verse every time they tie their shoe.

We have a verse heading your list that we won't get done before the end comes, which you appear to take to mean we should therefore do nothing. Then there are some verses to advance your constant complaint that the bad annointed ones have wrestled the teaching spotlight away from you and the other good annointed ones. I just can't suffer through it. Sorry.

In other words, you prefer your food served in regulated fashion; after all, you pay for it with your donations and dedication (surrendering your life) to the organization.  You prefer the GB’s words over God’s, and the soothing sound of a lie.  Yes, it is your weakness, your nasty habit; but as with many nasty habits, shedding them can prolong life.     

 “I have heard what the prophets have said, who prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.  How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies, even the prophets of the deceit of their own heart?  who think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbor, as their fathers forgot my name for Baal. 

 The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; and he who has my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the straw to the wheat? says Yahweh.  Isn’t my word like fire? says Yahweh; and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?  Therefore behold, I am against the prophets, says Yahweh, who steal my words everyone from his neighbor. 

 Behold, I am against the prophets, says Yahweh, who use their tongues, and say, He says.  Behold, I am against those who prophesy lying dreams, says Yahweh, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their vain boasting: yet I didn’t send them, nor commanded them; neither do they profit this people at all, says Yahweh.  Jer 23:25-32

 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

In other words, you prefer your food served in regulated fashion; after all, you pay for it with your donations and dedication (surrendering your life) to the organization.

Well - I think that's a pretty harsh assessment. 

Look, what you appear to want me to weigh in on is a family feud. You claim to be one of the anointed and you are mad that the GB anointed are not the anointed ones I should be listening to - they are the anointed from the wrong side of the tracks.

I am not of the anointed. Therefore, if we stick with the model I think we both agree with, someone is going to be delivering spiritual food for me. If I have to choose, they win hands down, lady, not you.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

So it must be the jab that made you mad, which was an observation of how our lovable cartoon characters, Caleb and Sophia, despite their tender years, still come off as more mature than you.

You are projecting again, TTH ... nothing you could possibly do not involving high velocity lead projectiles could make me mad. 

It was just my stunned disbelief at your reasoning processes that prompted , as always, my response.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

YO MOMMA is SO FAT, she has lesser fat women in orbit around her !

Get Caleb and Sophia to top THAT joke!

[Evacuated]

On 9/22/2017 at 9:17 PM, Shiwiii said:

Did you not read the letter? There IS a requirement per publishers. 

The letter is not addressed to publishers.

 

On 9/22/2017 at 9:17 PM, Shiwiii said:

On 9/22/2017 at 8:51 PM, Gone Fishing said:

Actually,  an amount is specified so that the brothers don't give too much.

LOL, you really think that? my goodness.

Well they are not asked to give more are they? and Jehovah's true worshippers always have to be asked to stop giving don't they?

On 9/22/2017 at 9:17 PM, Shiwiii said:

like what? food, clothing? humanitarian aid? Never seen it come from the organization, individuals...yes, but not the org. 

That's good......"don't let your right hand know"........etc

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It was just my stunned disbelief at your reasoning processes that prompted , as always, my response.

 

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

YO MOMMA is SO FAT, she has lesser fat women in orbit around her !

How's that for someone's 'reasoning process?'

You know, I feel a little mean when I imply - make that 'say' - that Caleb and Sophia are more mature than you. I'm not a mean guy by nature, and I hesitate to do it.

There have been times when I have been very conciliatory and respectful of you - you know I have. If you have some crap in your background, I have even sought to 'feel your pain,' just like Bill Clinton.

It does no good. Your immediate response is some tirade as hateful as ever toward theocratic organization. So it must be, I guess. "Fire when you see the whites of his eyes and fire when you don't!"

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

So it must be, I guess. "Fire when you see the whites of his eyes and fire when you don't!"

Your PROJECTING again, TTH.