JW Grandparents Who Shun Children Should Likewise be Banned from Contacting Grandchildren

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

In the entire history of all people ... everywhere .. there have NEVER been any exceptions.

There are none now.

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

on and off, with the "light switch"

Yes, this is so obviously on week meetings when DFD coming in congregation for some time. Silently sitting in the back, last line of chairs. Almost no one give him/her a look. And then in some particular day all is the same before meeting. Some half hour later , announcement made from stage and all was so happy, big applause, smiles, hugs.... Who is normal  and who is not normal in this situation?? Smile on request! Switch off! Switch on! And life goes on .....beautiful, virtuous New World!

[Srecko Sostar]

12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The exJW, if they want to live a Christian life, will still wish to honor their mother and father

Last year i meet my mother on street, first time after my living JW. I said, "Hello mom" . Mom turn her face and she passed by me.

Also my brothers, siblings did the same. 

About what "honor" we talking about? :))

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

What if a woman who had been disfellowshiped were to attend a congregational meeting

..... this say ...if she are not going to attend cong. meeting then  outcome, solution will be....???  call roadside assistance!

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

worldly person would instantly make the association that these people do not have love among themselves, a mark of true disciples. What if the worldly person had influence in the community?

Image! External form! And what would other (who had influence) do about!

This kinds of reasons are not fascinating at all. Not to me.

[JW Insider]

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Last year i meet my mother on street, first time after my living JW. I said, "Hello mom" . Mom turn her face and she passed by me.

Also my brothers, siblings did the same.

Yes. I am aware that this happens. But remember that we are discussing a special case where, let's say, you now have children that your mother would like to visit. In this case, as much as she might want to be able to shun you completely, she now needs to make contact with you to get the necessary permission.

Some parents are probably angry at the fact that a child who is now DFd has ruined their reputation as a good, exemplary parent who raises God-fearing children. Mothers lose as much "reputation" as fathers  (or even more) in this situation, and anger is a way to eclipse the natural affection we should have been born with. I have heard of parents and siblings and others in the congregation who will literally spit on the ground in the direction of the DFd person. The Watchtower magazine in the past has implied that there might even be a desire by the parents to kill such children. A Watchtower article that came out when my parents were first considering having children made it sound as if parents would need a reminder not to kill their apostate child:

*** w52 11/15 p. 703 Questions From Readers ***

• In the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshiped, how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship?—P. C., Ontario, Canada.
• We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. “Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee.”—Deut. 13:6-11, AS.
• Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship.

The article makes it sound as if we should be disappointed that we don't live in a "theocratic" nation like Saudi Arabia, or under a Taliban-like rule where we could still kill our children. The closest consolation the same article could offer was the following:

• The parent must by laws of God and of man fulfill his parental obligations to the child or children as long as they are dependent minors . . . . Of course, if the children are of age, then there can be a departing and breaking of family ties in a physical way, because the spiritual ties have already snapped.

I'm reminded of this more recent article where the idea of shunning is conspicuous by its absence:

*** w01 10/15 p. 14 par. 10 Who Will Separate Us From God’s Love? ***

• Some Christian parents have been accused of hating their children because of not allowing them to accept medical procedures that violate God’s law or not letting them engage in pagan celebrations. . . . Some opposers have spread slanderous lies in the media, even falsely accusing Jehovah’s Witnesses of being a dangerous cult.

   

[Space Merchant]

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Unfortunately, the FIRST responsibility of Witch Doctors. Shamans, Priests, Clergy, Elders, and THE Governing Body ... is to protect their own jobs, power and authority, real estate, and money.

This is how religions have ALWAYS evolved, once they start accumulating real estate and piles of money ... and start dressing well.

We are NOT the exception.

From my experience, Witch Doctors do not rely on jobs, well the ones who plague the Caribbean islands of course. If anything, they tend to rely on supporters, those who support them and the like, and such ones will do the most vicious of things and even will kill and or target someone. I know because I lost a cousin, she was age 16, and 2 uncles to such ones (all of whom who had been killed in a brutal fashion, one of my uncles were poisoned by them) and the greatest among them are the more demonic type, the only reason some in the country will say there is demon influence and or manifestation among them because such ones are quite hardcore in this practice. It is also the reason why some have issue with blood, for that is what such ones are after in some cases.

I also recall, on another forum I use to be part of, a Christian Youth Group had the night of their life when they didn't know they camped too close to a Witch Doctor's hideout, this is why one cannot be dwelling on forbidding areas in the first place, furthermore, lot some people also, even among JWs were killed by such ones and evil people such as these only thrive because they make their practice popular and they have culturalized it, and because of political corruption, such ones get stronger everyday.

As they say among my people, si ce ne sont pas les rebelles qui vous attrapent pendant la journee, c'est le monstre de la nuit qui le fait meaning:  if it isn't the rebels that get you during the day, it is the monster of the night that do.

 

That being said, people are more concern with what a religious faith is doing with the money, mainly if such is to help the people of the church and to help others, as well as advancing the gospel.

One of the biggest reason I am somewhat strict when it comes to the Bible is because wickedness at that level I want God to purge entirely, for such things my people face are stuff of nightmares, and all of us witness far more dangerous things than a Witch Doctor. As for the many people killed by them and rebels combined, these people I want to be resurrected, for they didn't deserve the worse they got from demonic persons and the wicked will get theirs since God is not a fan of sorcery.

[Srecko Sostar]

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The article makes it sound as if we should be disappointed that we don't live in a "theocratic" nation

 

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

accusing Jehovah’s Witnesses of being a dangerous cult.

It not surprised me that people came to such conclusion about some JW practice and doctrines..

[JW Insider]

9 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It not surprised me that people came to such conclusion about some JW practice and doctrines..

And it would be easy to fix, and make us better Christians, imo. A son of a Governing Body member who was assigned to handle "Public Relations" for a time, once confided (to someone else) that almost all of our public relations problems would just go away if we changed our stance on shunning and blood.

Well we already changed our stance on the stictness over blood, accepting just about every available medical blood therapy up to and almost including whole blood transfusions, which are becoming rarer in Western countries anyway, due to the expenses related to some blood therapies.

And we have no Biblical reason to maintain our stand on shunning as strictly as we tend to promote it. 

The only major new item that has come up since this brother mentioned these two items is the child sexual abuse scandal. And we're doing almost everything we can do on that one.

True Christians will always be spoken against, but it is best not to give anyone a good reason.

• (1 Peter 3:16, 17) 16 Maintain a good conscience, so that in whatever way you are spoken against, those who speak against you may be put to shame because of your good conduct as followers of Christ. 17 For it is better to suffer because you are doing good, if it is God’s will to allow it, than because you are doing evil.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

...... Believing that agenda driven  clueless cruelty is a "loving provision" takes a LOT of faith in the PEOPLE pushing that viewpoint for the enhancement  and consolidation of their authority.

Plus, having great fear that non-compliance to "The Agenda" will make you next to be caught in its grip.

..... believing that you are NOT looking at a duck does not require an Einstein to figure it out.

If it looks like a duck .... walks like a duck .... and quacks like a duck ..... IT'S A DUCK!

It only requires that you be honest with yourself at what you are looking at.

Cruelty, mis-labeled ... is STILL cruelty.

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

We have to endure the machinations and failed reasoning  of bodies with 16 legs who fear of losing their positions of authority, real estate, and money, because they actually ARE right .... 15% of the time.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

... or USED to be ..... 15% of the time.

The lawyers and accountants now define our official theology.

[Space Merchant]

On 8/31/2018 at 11:15 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

...... Believing that agenda driven  clueless cruelty is a "loving provision" takes a LOT of faith in the PEOPLE pushing that viewpoint for the enhancement  and consolidation of their authority.

Plus, having great fear that non-compliance to "The Agenda" will make you next to be caught in its grip.

..... believing that you are NOT looking at a duck does not require an Einstein to figure it out.

If it looks like a duck .... walks like a duck .... and quacks like a duck ..... IT'S A DUCK!

It only requires that you be honest with yourself at what you are looking at.

Cruelty, mis-labeled ... is STILL cruelty.

 

 

The sad reality is no one knows what the Agenda is, but the so and so in the deep state thinks we, the people do not know.

[TrueTomHarley]

On 8/31/2018 at 11:12 AM, JW Insider said:

A son of a Governing Body member who was assigned to handle "Public Relations" for a time, once confided (to someone else) that almost all of our public relations problems would just go away if we changed our stance on shunning and blood.

 

I guess I would be happier with all these shunning threads if they started with:

"Well, we know how vital it is for worshippers of Jehovah to stay separate from the world, but ..."

Or:

"Well, we know how Christians must 'touch nothing unclean,' but...."

Or:

"Well, we know how God is a jealous God who hasn't exactly been cool in the past when his ancient people got too cozy with the nations, but....

However, they are framed that way. Always it is framed as a matter of individual rights, as though toeing the line in that regard cannot help but make God happy.

I don't think it works that way.

As much as you want to avoid causing upset to people, surely God fits in there somewhere. It is not a 'What is good for General Motors is good for God.' It ought always to be a "Let us make sure it is good for God, and then we'll see what we can do about not ruffling the feathers of General Motors.'