Apostles, Judas, GB, Raymond, Satan, Holy Spirit

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, FelixCA said:

I am afraid I disagree with that assessment.

Okay. Still, you seem to indicate that you knew him, too. What was he like?

6 hours ago, FelixCA said:

for as much as you admire his limited knowledge of Bethel. 

Yeah. That’s fair. I guess I do. I mean, he’s been where I haven’t.

Whether it’s a good idea for him to blab away as he does, I have no idea. I was livid about it at first, but I have grown used to it. The point is, he is going to do it whether I am here or not, so I just glean what I can, always keeping in mind that it is through the eyes of another. That’s why I asked about how it looks through your eyes.

6 hours ago, FelixCA said:

Since you are an author, I would think your research is for the truth

I am probably one of the few here who has not read Ray’s book. I might someday but have no immediate plans. Such things are just red herrings to me, a distraction. I mean, if my books were about personalities, I would go there. But they’re not. My books are what of Jehovah’s Witnesses as a people have done, not so much the individuals in it. I tell a lot of stories, but internal ‘power struggles,’ if they are that, do not interest me.

 

[Anna]

 July 1, 1943 Watchtower (p.205) 

For anyone who wants to read the whole article in context:

https://ia801406.us.archive.org/23/items/WatchtowerLibrary/magazines/w/w1943_E.pdf

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, Equivocation said:

I am on and off sometimes because of school.

Are you really still in school? Well well well. Most here are far older. You express yourself uninhibitedly.

7 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Right now I am we have a day off because of cold weather. 

What!? A day off? For cold weather??!!!

You kids are soft!

Why, back in MY day....

#WalkFiveMiles #Uphill #BothWays.  

[Anna]

11 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

but internal ‘power struggles,’ if they are that, do not interest me.

I just want to pipe up here. The internal struggles ARE what shaped "what Jehovah’s Witnesses as a people have done" . I know, and I agree, we do't want to focus on the negative. But in my personal opinion it helps to know these things sometimes because it helps us become more grounded in reality, rather than what we think is the reality, and then get disappointed, to the point of being stumbled. I don't know if I have explained that very well. I'm not talking about fault finding or criticism. Just reality.

[TrueTomHarley]

8 minutes ago, Anna said:

The internal struggles ARE what shaped "what Jehovah’s Witnesses as a people have done"

I suppose. 

But somewhere there is a story of some old-time Bethelite who, when the younger ones would start squabbling over something, would tilt back and marvel at how Jehovah was able to do SO MUCH with what little he had to work with.

I mean, there’s always going to be people. They’re always going to do things. How God pulls a rabbit out of his hat with them around I’ll never know, but he consistently does.

It’s not my area of focus, that’s all. If I was shocked at it, I wouldn’t be here.

You commented a while back about pulling back the curtain at Oz. The fact that GB members show themselves on TV indicates to me that they pull back the curtain upon themselves as well.

[Anna]

1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The fact that GB members show themselves on TV indicates to me that they pull back the curtain upon themselves as well

To a certain extent yes. But we will never know what is being discussed behind closed doors. I would say it doesn't matter, it's not our business, but it is, because it affects everyone of us. (When I get around to it I want to make this a topic in the closed club, here is not the best place)

[Anna]

9 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

 ......marvel at how Jehovah was able to do SO MUCH with what little he had to work with......  How God pulls a rabbit out of his hat with them around I’ll never know, but he consistently does.

I agree!

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

(When I get around to it I want to make this a topic in the closed club, here is not the best place)

Yeah, @JOHN BUTLER, where you can’t come.

Nyah, Nyah, Nyah.

[FelixCA]

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

If that's the meaning --"not to let Jesus' words make you complacent"-- and I think it very likely considering the following paragraph in that Watchtower, then it is not a wrong application at all. (It's also not wrong to use it in a way that tells us to avoid speculation.) What I still find wrong is how it's made to fit in the context of the entire article. It's as if it's saying the following, paraphrase

Yes, I can understand your sarcasm and your obsession with Fred and the year 1975. I'm sure your motive goes beyond this site into others that share the same view as you do. It was a very interesting year that brought many changes to humanity. This, of course, was the urgency Fred was referring to. Time was of the essence to prepare the faithful sheep for hard times too difficult to deal with. By god, if that revelation didn’t come true if we are here arguing about 1975. 2 Timothy 3:1-17

 

Therefore, your subtle perspective is still only your opinion, based on how you are viewing the information cited.

Therefore, how can you justify Raymond Franz blatant disregard for Bible truth when he cited that others besides the 144,000 would join Christ in heaven. Give a scriptural example? You might as well tell people once they die, they go to heaven as Michael waits to welcome them at the pearly gates of heaven.

If you knew Raymond, you don't need to read his book. 😉

[FelixCA]

4 hours ago, Anna said:

But isn't this based on facts? Or are you saying it wasn't Fred who wrote these things, but someone else in the writing department? But even if that was the case, Fred would sanction everything before going to print, so he would have had to agree with it.

This would depend on how you see the operation of the Presidency versus the Governing Body. Who is anointed, and who worked closely with the anointed enough though they were not part of the anointed class.

People seem to forget Brother F. Franz knew C.T. Russell. What CTR administrative obligations were and what he would delegate to a board of directors. Did F.Franz proofread the writing department articles to see if they were consistent with scripture, or was that a responsibility he passes on to the GB? The GB does that now.

I can recall an assembly talk where Fred stated, that's what the book says, its here in print. NO one really truly knew the Presidents just like they don't really know the GB. Those are hypotheticals by witnesses that "interact" at some point with them. Therefore no one has the right to speak about someone they truly don't know. That's the bottom line if you want to continue calling ourselves Christian.

The problem with Bethel at that time was a cleansing of apostates. Perhaps JWI lost a good friend by being disfellowshipped. But still, that's no excuse under God's law. Yes, Fred was the framer on how elders should conduct a committee to ensure the congregation would be maintained clean under scriptural bases. That didn't make him a hardnose, or an inhumane person to stick with the bylaws of scripture.

That was part of the Bethel gossip along with his ability to understand scripture. Some people thought he wasn't qualified. That was a question I asked JWI. Fred was more qualified than anyone at that time. That's why he enjoyed translating scripture into different languages.

There is far more that can be said, it would take a book to yield such information.

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, Anna said:

 July 1, 1943 Watchtower (p.205) 

For anyone who wants to read the whole article in context:

https://ia801406.us.archive.org/23/items/WatchtowerLibrary/magazines/w/w1943_E.pdf

 

 

ITS MISSION

THIS journal is published for the purpose of enabling the people to know Jehovah God and his purposes as expressed in the Bible. It publishes Bible instruction specifically designed to aid Jehovah's witnesses and all people of good-will. It arranges systematic Bible study for Its readers and the Society supplies other literature to aid in such studies. It publishes suitable material for radio broadcasting and for other means of public instruction in the Scriptures.

It adheres strictly to the Bible as authority for its utterances. It is entirely free and separate from all religion, parties, sects or other worldly organizations. It is wholly and without reservation for the kingdom of Jehovah God under Christ his beloved King. It is not dogmatic, but invites careful and critical examination of its contents In the light of the Scriptures. It does not indulge in controversy, and its columns are not open to personalities.

 

1) It adheres strictly to the Bible as authority for its utterances  

Plenty of doctrinal and instructional, corporative changes from 1943 to today reveals that so called "Bible authority" as base for WT articles was questionable intention. Is it Bible itself questionable authority that is not able to provide clear idea to those who reading Bible text? Is it human perception of very same Words some kind of trap that unable clear understanding?  What is general or particular Bible Idea? To create only true "religious organization"?  Really ?!

WT publications in general and here WT magazine as particular paper for dispensing spiritual food  clearly proved that it can't be trusted for it's readers. 

IN LIGHT OF THIS CONCLUSION, it is very significant how text continues with this: 

2) It is not dogmatic, but invites careful and critical examination of its contents In the light of the Scriptures.

The WT Magazine was Not dogmatic? If authors aka publishers and writers of The WT articles of those period of time were had such idea about own presentation of spiritual food, than that is for praise, undoubtedly. What was changed in meantime??

If you as author of your articles made claim that you and your written ideas are not dogmatic, and how all other are invited to make Careful and Critical Examination of ITS contents, than All Open Discussion, Reasoning, Pro et Contra Argumentation, Accuracy and Wrongness will Never be Sanctioned by Those in "Charge" , from so called "Spiritual Authority", who ever they are in particular time.   

No Shunning or Disfellowshiping  of those who have Other Opinion, because even Official doctrines are only this, Current Point of View, Current Opinion and nothing more, as reality shows us until this day!    

 

Curiosity for fun;

interesting terminology from 1943

."...while we were on Watchtower street work..."         :))) good title for preaching service :))))

[JOHN BUTLER]

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Yeah, @JOHN BUTLER, where you can’t come.

Nyah, Nyah, Nyah.

Showing a very Christian attitude Tom. Have a nice day. 

However I think it shows cowardice and the lack of confidence in your own beliefs.