King David

[JJJ-AUSTRALIA]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

Your choice...... 

Indeed my choice. Not according to watchtower...

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I am not church member. I gave my opinion and thoughts and questions. You said: When Jehovah allowed things it was not the ideal but he allowed it because - as Jesus said - they were hard-hearted. 

Why you think, how JHVH dealing with human in this way, by allow, is not ideal?? JHVH is perfect and if he decide "to allow" things, than that IS ideal. You need more faith :)))

As i can understand so far, JHVH "allowed" (perhaps exist some Bible verse who said this. It will be fine to find Bible verse who give clear God's intention and standpoint on this idea.

Next, we have Jesus words who specifically say how Moses, and NOT JHVH, gave permission about it.

Idea how JHVH "allowed" polygamy is just human idea and theological explanation.

Fact that Jesus confirmed is clear: Moses gave them permission to have more than one wife. Jesus never said; JHVH gave permission. 

Also, Jesus gave answer on question: "Why Moses allowed that?". But Jesus not gave answer on: "Why JHVH not stopped this immoral law to be part of His Law and to stand as equal among His righteous and supreme, Divine words and laws?" 

He allows a lot of things, isn't allowing like turning a blind eye and letting it happen as it is against ur rules.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

agree on this - he does not take political or racist sides. However, he can assist people to deal with major problems and to stay faithful.  In some cases he can use circumstances to work out for his servants.  When witnesses were facing long prison sentences they received their freedom...quite unexpectedly -it happened in 1919. Jehovah had a job for them to do.  

You gave a reply without a solid, irrefutable example to back it up.

Do you have one?

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

To the best of my knowledge and belief , based on actual provable facts ( and not flights of fantasy) in modern times Jehovah has not interfered in the lives of ANY Nation, or ANY individual.

He did not save  anyone involved in World War I .. or World War II ..... not as a political nation, not as a religious group, and not as individuals.

...and that's the fact, Jack!

Of course you can disprove my statement with just ONE solid example to the contrary.

I look forward to your correcting me.

.... all it takes is just ONE example to the contrary.

Of the billions of experiences attributed to divine intervention, in modern times ... do you have at least ONE solid example?

[Arauna]

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

without a solid, irrefutable example to back it up.

If you mean a scientific experiment where the same situation arises and we get the same lab results - no.  Life is not like that.  The situations differ. 

The example I mentioned was when brothers received a 6 year prison sentence and then suddenly were set free - very unexpectedly when they thought all was lost.

 You may not regard it as evidence but I do.  I cannot phone jehovah to find out if he really helped them or not but in the light of prophecy and how they afterwards conducted themselves, I do accept it as timely intervention...... for a purpose.  To accept the responsibility of preaching and teaching world wide Matt 24:14.

I do not see every beneficial coincidence as intervention by God just as I do not see spontaneous regression of cancer as intervention by God.

However,  I have seen Jehovahs assistance and mercy in my own life and therefore believe it is possible - even in a very public way to fulfill the prophecy of matt 24:14. Who is doing this work on a world-wide scale today? When did it start?  When was it stopped .......and how and when was new life blown into the preaching work?  After 1919? 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Synopsis:

So, of the billions of things that happen to people everyday, sometimes wonderful things for which they give God the credit ...you cannot think of a single instance that cannot more probable than not of being just plain coincidence.

Not even ONE!

Got  it.

Perhaps someone else has a verifiable solid instance, but looking at World War i and World War II, as the classic examples .....

... I doubt it.

...

[Arauna]

World War II, as the classic examples .....

... I doubt it.

 

 Oh yea of little faith....... I gave you one example.  I do not think you accepted it even though  I linked a modern day prophecy to it.  

 

Since I do most of my writing from memory I guess I am really too lazy to go and search for one from the second world war that may please you.... after the third example I may get tired of your oh so exacting standards ...... and still I may not have pleased you.

I now refrain from adding any other comment.

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

The example I mentioned was when brothers received a 6 year prison sentence and then suddenly were set free - very unexpectedly when they thought all was lost.

 You may not regard it as evidence but I do. 

 

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

However,  I have seen Jehovahs assistance and mercy in my own life and therefore believe it is possible

We have at least two sort of perception here.

Arauna you said how you believe, "miracle" is possible. I agree that you and I or somebody else can explain some events in our or elses life as God's intervention. No one can make proof or contra proof for that.

But you forget another important thing. WT Society and JW organization have official doctrine that is opposite of your beliefs in this. True, WT magazines from time to time brings experiences that border with "miracles" or are "miracles", because it is not explainable from human reality, how and why, but it was said how that have to be from God.

WT and JW Organization teaching clearly say how, "miracles" stopped in 1 century. By "miracles", they mean supernatural, divine intervention by JHVH. Interventions and acts of every kind. Among other things, is also how JHVH protecting his people. 

If you try to explain to your brothers or elders how your specific experience is definitely, for sure, intervention made by God and to assure them how what happened is exactly what you believe - God's miracle in your life ..... let us inform about their respond. :))

     

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

have official doctrine that is opposite of your beliefs in this. Tru

Well, we see no more rising from death, gifts like healing of people -  so yes, I agree with our doctrine that these miracles were signs which assisted the first century congregation to be established and for people to put faith in christ. 

Hebrews 2:3  how will we escape if we have neglected so great a salvation? For it began to be spoken through our Lord and was verified for us by those who heard him,  4 while God joined in bearing witness with signs and wonders and various powerful works and with the holy spirit distributed according to his will

But to say that jehovah does not fulfill his prophecies is a lie.   I specifically used a modern day prophecy about the world-wide preaching work which came about after the brothers were set free and the slave came to be. Matt 24:14 & 45

[Srecko Sostar]

20 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Well, we see no more rising from death, gifts like healing of people -  so yes, I agree with our doctrine that these miracles were signs which assisted the first century congregation to be established and for people to put faith in christ. 

Hebrews 2:3  how will we escape if we have neglected so great a salvation? For it began to be spoken through our Lord and was verified for us by those who heard him,  4 while God joined in bearing witness with signs and wonders and various powerful works and with the holy spirit distributed according to his will

But to say that jehovah does not fulfill his prophecies is a lie.   I specifically used a modern day prophecy about the world-wide preaching work which came about after the brothers were set free and the slave came to be. Matt 24:14 & 45

Thanks for respond. But from this comment i see how you softened previous personal belief. :)) and only miracle that stayed as miracle is preaching.

[TrueTomHarley]

On 12/21/2019 at 11:49 PM, Jack Ryan said:

David killed 200 hundred Philistines in battle and brought their foreskins back to king Saul so he could marry his daughter. That apparently was okay!

It wasn’t okay with them. They disapproved.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

Since I do most of my writing from memory I guess I am really too lazy to go and search for one from the second world war that may please you.... after the third example I may get tired of your oh so exacting standards ...... and still I may not have pleased you.

I now refrain from adding any other comment.

I only asked for ONE example, from any modern human experience, anywhere, by anybody ... that could not be BETTER explained by just plain coincidence or serendipity.

Just ONE, out of the billions of experiences people have, or know about.

The real reason you are refraining from further comment is that trillions of facts .... hard evidence .... irrefutable evidence, contrary to hopes and dreams, and flights of fancy, show God does NOT interfere with our lives, in modern times.

Not as a secular nation.

Not as a spiritual Nation.

Not as individuals.

Just ONE solid example could have proven me wrong.

You may as well go to www.NORADSANTA.ORG, to see where Santa Clause is delivering toys at this moment.

 

[Arauna]

17 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

that could not be BETTER explained by just plain coincidence or serendipity.

Just ONE, out of the billions of experiences people have, or know about.

I  believe this request of yours refutes the argument..... and is unreasonable. Do you understand why?

A miracle is always something which is unexplained and often seems like serendipity or coincidence. .... And often, jehovah's interventions seems like unexpected miracles.  That is what a miracle is. Unexplained beneficial change of circumstance or unbelievable event. 

I think my example met that criteria. .... You think not.  So I think you want more than a miracle..... which will be hard to find unless God spoke from heaven himself and said he caused it to happen. 

If you study the bible you will find that most miracles/interventions  from jehovah fulfilled a purpose. Never ever was his miracles not part if his purpose. A good example was the 10 plagues. 

Soon the world will see that Jehovah exists.  Usually his worshippers are quick to see his interventions and as in case of Pharoah , unbelievers take longer, or remain blind.

At Armageddon, the globe will "know he is Jehovah" because the coincidences will be irrefutable! 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

 

 

All that you have said being considered, you still did not provide a SINGLE modern day instance to the contrary, of my suppositions.

Not ONE !