Demas, Scriptures Daily 13th March 2020

[John Houston]

Where in scripture does it say that all the first century Christians were of the 'anointed', those of the 144,000? Those baptized at Pentecost were ALL of them chosen by Jehovah like cattle at a rodeo, to join his Son as co-rulers in heaven? That was all that had to happen? Sounds like fluff from Christendom. Especially since, lie Demas, some would leave and from among these very ones the apostasy would spring. No, Jehovah has chosen only 144,000 and has done it carefully and with patience. He has the time and having Holy Spirit was not a requisite, it gave them gifts, tools for the ministry, not a seat on a throne in heaven! Something else was needed.

[JW Insider]

2 minutes ago, John Houston said:

Where in scripture does it say that all the first century Christians were of the 'anointed', those of the 144,000?

It's a good question. But be careful if you are asking this question publicly in your congregation. You might not realize that this question was once near the top of the list of red flags to identify apostasy. Also, it can get mixed up with another question that was, for a while, at the very top of the list of red flags to identify apostasy: "Where in scripture does it say that any Christians were NOT of the anointed?"

The reason is that it was The Watchtower saying that all the first century Christians were of the 'anointed', those of the 144,000.

[Kosonen]

2 hours ago, Tom Henry said:

The O.T. is as important to a faithful christian as the N.T. would.

A well versed person in the O.T., apostle Paul seems to be of a different opinion. He wrote:

Hebrews 9:5 and above it were the glorious cherubs overshadowing the propitiatory cover. But now is not the time to speak of these things in detail.

Hebrews 11:32 And what more will I say? For time will fail me if I go on to relate about Gidʹe·on, Baʹrak, Samson, Jephʹthah, David, as well as Samuel and the other prophets.

Yes, really time will fail if we read much the OT. We will not have time to read the latest, the NT.

And the OT is 3 times longer than the NT. If it takes you a year to read through the Bible, then you will be reading the NT only 3 months per year. The rest of the time you will be occupied with the OT. How Christian would that be? And you could get lost in the OT and start to think that to keep the Sabbath is important. Or you could start thinking that polygamy is ok. Or you could start to think cursing enemies is ok. Or you could start thinking that you are wise if you are rich. And while reading for long periods the OT, you could forget about Jesus and begin to despise him in your thoughts.

And there is not much about putting on the new personality in the OT. So your progress would be slowed down significantly in this regard.

The NT will definitively have a more spiritual impact on its reader than the OT.

 

[Kosonen]

Colossians 2:16  Therefore, do not let anyone judge you about what you eat and drink or about the observance of a festival or of the new moon or of a sabbath. 17  Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ. 18  Let no man deprive you of the prize who takes delight in a false humility and a form of worship of the angels, “taking his stand on” the things he has seen. He is actually puffed up without proper cause by his fleshly frame of mind, 19  and he is not holding fast to the head, to the one through whom the whole body is supplied and harmoniously joined together by means of its joints and ligaments and made to grow with the growth that is from God. 

[Kosonen]

Galatians 4:9  But now that you have come to know God or, rather, have come to be known by God, how is it that you are turning back again to the weak and beggarly elementary things and want to slave for them over again? 10  You are scrupulously observing days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

[Colin Browne]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

It's a good question. But be careful if you are asking this question publicly in your congregation. You might not realize that this question was once near the top of the list of red flags to identify apostasy. Also, it can get mixed up with another question that was, for a while, at the very top of the list of red flags to identify apostasy: "Where in scripture does it say that any Christians were NOT of the anointed?"

The reason is that it was The Watchtower saying that all the first century Christians were of the 'anointed', those of the 144,000.

There is a reason why most of Christendom believe they are going to heaven. At the home where I am, all know that I'm deaf. So, whenever I inquire about residents who are no longer seen, they point upwards. Besides Matthew 5:5 most of the Greek scriptures are about going to heaven. (Matt 6:20; 19:24; Mark 10:21) The gathering of the anointed was an important purpose of Jesus work. "Declaring the good news" was the other. (Luke 4:43).

[Kosonen]

2 hours ago, Tom Henry said:

True, but not all will receive a heavenly reward.

I know, I just wanted to make clear that for example the so called governing body should not deny for other anointed the possibility to be a faithful and diiscreet slave. They have reserved the fulfillment of that scripture already for themselves. Somebody more faithful and discreet might be appointed to take responsibility to give spiritual food for the domestics instead of them.

[Guest Tom Henry]

1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

A well versed person in the O.T., apostle Paul seems to be of a different opinion. He wrote:

The inference of Paul was to substantiate the work of Christ. If Jesus used the O.T. as an inspired example of gods commandments, then Paul was in agreement with it. What Paul had to deal with was with language and culture. Every witness I know understands this. Every witness that is taught the truth understands this. The only ones without comprehension are those self labeled. This is indicative of the Proverbs.

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The reason is that it was The Watchtower saying that all the first century Christians were of the 'anointed', those of the 144,000.

Since not all 144,000 thousand were declared by Christ in his time? Can you provide an example not in text but with a publican where the Org mentions "all" 144,000 anointed were calculated at that time, rather than how the 144,000 anointed started being formed. I have never heard the Watchtower reference it that way.

As true witnesses, we should undoubtedly be careful on how we perceive the Org's understanding and not assimilate the outside worlds understanding

[JW Insider]

43 minutes ago, Tom Henry said:

Can you provide an example not in text but with a publican where the Org mentions "all" 144,000 anointed were calculated at that time, rather than how the 144,000 anointed started being formed.

No. I can only provide examples for what I said, not for this incorrect idea you just asked about.

[Guest Tom Henry]

42 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

No. I can only provide examples for what I said, not for this incorrect idea you just asked about.

I am basing myself on your own language. I will then like you to explain what you meant, by correctly applying your own words as substance. Witnesses understand the gathering of the anointed as a gradual process since 33CE.

The outside world has a heavenly hope for all when they die. They are greeted at heavens gate by an angel to welcome them in. They obviously fail to understand the book of revelation.

Anyone that makes a personal pact with god in baptism, if deserving of his Holy Spirit and is anointed by the spirit. There are several levels of the gift. Witnesses that grow weary, fall out of grace with that spirit. That baptism or pledge is nullified by personal choice.

A process that comes as you state by apostasy.

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, Tom Henry said:

I will then like you to explain what you meant, by correctly applying your own words as substance.

Sure. Not a problem. I said exactly what you had requoted, which is this:

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The reason is that it was The Watchtower saying that all the first century Christians were of the 'anointed', those of the 144,000.

The Watchtower has said that all the first century Christians were of the "anointed." Therefore they were of the "144,000."

That's the whole explanation. You seemed to read this as if I meant the following, quoting you:

2 hours ago, Tom Henry said:

"all" 144,000 anointed were calculated at that time

What you understood is incorrect, of course. It was never implied by me nor by the Watchtower publications.

[Guest Tom Henry]

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The Watchtower has said that all the first century Christians were of the "anointed." Therefore they were of the "144,000."

I see, there is a distinction with your language where those becoming Christians you believe the Watchtower is stating, all those people (First Century Christian) were anointed by God's Holy Spirit, but not necessarily to be apostles who were the true anointed class, since they continued to carry the message of Christ. I understood your first prospect correctly. It's good to understand that distinction of the gifts like the Watchtower. It doesn't minimize the responsibility of the GB to standout as responsible men in accordance with scripture.

Witnesses should be made aware of not locking themselves with worldly views.