Rebuttal: "Seeing" Jehovah@

[Moise Racette]

@AnnaNana

"Everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin, for His seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice sin, for he has been born from God.

Reuttal: does this ideology of the poster make humans perfect? That’s what the poster is indicating with such words. Prove how the poster was perfected and became sinless?

 

Also to the moderators, how is it that this person can continue to post when the topic is closed for further discussion? Is this a moderator thing?

[Moise Racette]

Then I find it troubling since they are preventing free speech as they advocate it for certain people. I also find it troubling that poster can continue to make comments, and then they close the topic for further discussion, then allow that poster to post another comment and close the topic again for further discussion. 

That is not only giving apostates ammunition, they become part of that misrepresentation.

That means, they are deliberately allowing the devil to work this forum.

[Guest]

Hi, Moise. The Moderators haven't done anything against you. You have been speaking against one of Jesus' faithful little anointed brothers. You can do that if you want, but it doesn't put you in a good position with Jehovah.

 

"Saul, for his part, approved of his murder. On that day great persecution arose against the congregation that was in Jerusalem; ...Saul, though, began to ravage the congregation. He would invade one house after another, dragging out both men and women and turning them over to prison."

 

Like you, Saul also approved of persecuting true Christians at one time.

 

Later Jehovah used Saul to work with Jesus in ministering to the nations.

 

Dear Moise Racette: May Jehovah open your eyes that He may redirect and bless your zeal. Apathy is something you do not know. That is a good thing. I hope Jesus will open your eyes so you will stop persecuting righteous ones. There is so much work to do in Kingdom service. If possible, it is good for us to work together in peace.

 

"God has shown me that I should call no man defiled or unclean."

 

I am not an apostate, Moise, or an enemy of truth. I am not anybody special or anything. I am lowly and imperfect. But I am not defiled and unclean and worthy of the harsh words you speak of me. I am one of Jesus' friends. Jesus is the one you are persecuting. 

 

May all lovers of peace have peace. I hope that means you too, Moise. 

 

"I am grateful to Christ Jesus our Lord, who imparted power to me, because he considered me faithful by assigning me to a ministry,  although formerly I was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insolent man. Nevertheless, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and with a lack of faith.  But the undeserved kindness of our Lord abounded exceedingly along with faith and the love that is in Christ Jesus.  This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these, I am foremost.  Nevertheless, I was shown mercy so that by means of me as the foremost case, Christ Jesus might demonstrate all his patience, making me an example to those who are going to rest their faith on him for everlasting life. Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."

 

May Jehovah be praised for his undeserved kindness and mercy to each one of us. 

[Moise Racette]

2 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

Hi, Moise. The Moderators haven't done anything against you. You have been speaking against one of Jesus' faithful little anointed brothers. You can do that if you want, but it doesn't put you in a good position with Jehovah.

Wrong, now I know this poster is either a moderator or has special privileges. However, the poster should not conclude to be anointed as a fake Christian. Therefore, you have no judgment over me and the position I have been given by God to expose apostasy and those that misrepresent scripture.

So, I will continue to expose this poster's fake Christian ethics and bible understanding just like I would anyone else.

[Moise Racette]

3 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

Dear Moise Racette: May Jehovah open your eyes that He may redirect and bless your zeal. Apathy is something you do not know. That is a good thing. I hope Jesus will open your eyes so you will stop persecuting righteous ones. There is so much work to do in Kingdom service. If possible, it is good for us to work together in peace.

When, it comes to rejecting what is false, one needs no apathy to a Pharisee. The poster is not a Christian martyr nor a saint, therefore, cannot be persecuted. The poster is a bad example of good Christian conduct that scripture refers to as bad company. 

If the poster wishes to work together, then unseal your unholy venture against an Org or its members and stop blaspheming. If this poster wishes to discuss bible interpretation without using the Org as a crotch, I can have that discussion. I also made the same request with @Witness another apostate and blasphemer that can't stop misrepresenting Watchtower articles just like any other apostate out there.

Keep in mind:

1 John 3:21-22 trust law obedience You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

The posters actions and behavior have condemned you, not me, since the posters own words work against the poster, for persecuting the GB and the Org.

[Moise Racette]

13 minutes ago, Peter Carroll said:

there are better moderated sites out there

Yes, there are. However, we cannot allow such forums to subjugate what will be considered, free speech that endanger the lives of others, that will be taken up by the government this year for those businesses having commerce, in America.

[Guest]

"We must obey God as ruler rather than men.  The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake.  God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”

 

"When they heard this, they were infuriated and wanted to do away with them.  But a Pharisee named Ga·maʹli·el rose in the Sanʹhe·drin; he was a Law teacher esteemed by all the people, and he gave the command to put the men outside for a little while.  Then he said to them: “Men of Israel, be careful as to what you intend to do about these men...under the present circumstances, I say to you, do not meddle with these men, but let them alone. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself."

 

When it is Jehovah's time to reveal a matter, who can fight against Him and come off successful? There are thousands of forums. If Jehovah chooses to use this one to share something, none of us can check His hand or ask, "What are you doing?" When it's Jehovah's time, it's time.

 

"There is a time to tear down and a time to build up."

 

It's time to tear down the class distinctions. It's time to build up the flock. Jesus rides for the sanctification of Jehovah's name. He is doing his work. Jehovah's name will be cleared of reproach. Jehovah is Our Father, and Everyone will have to know what that really means. Someday these things that seem "new" to us will be common knowledge. 

 

"Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah 

As the waters cover the sea."

 

"“And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” declares Jehovah."

 

We may be among the "least", but God is not partial. He made the lowly just the same as He made the rest. We're all made of dust.

 

"I will praise you with all my heart. 

In the face of other gods, I will sing praises.  

I will bow down toward your holy temple, 

And I will praise your name 

Because of your loyal love and your faithfulness.  

For you have magnified your saying and your name above everything else. 

On the day I called, you answered me; 

You made me bold and strong. 

All the kings of the earth will praise you, O Jehovah, 

For they will have heard the promises you have spoken.  

They will sing about the ways of Jehovah, 

For the glory of Jehovah is great. 

Though Jehovah is high, he takes note of the humble, 

But the haughty he knows only from a distance.  

Even when I walk in the midst of danger, you will preserve me alive. 

You stretch out your hand against the anger of my enemies; 

Your right hand will save me.  

Jehovah will accomplish all things in my behalf. 

O Jehovah, your loyal love endures forever; 

Do not forsake the works of your hands."

 

Jehovah did not forsake the Psalmist, David, when he was low, whether hiding in the wilderness from opposers or attacked right in his own house. He will not forsake His lowly ones. We also are the works of his hands. Do not despair when you are reproached by men, even those "superior authorities" in the congregation arrangement. Jehovah is a righteous judge, and He is coming soon to fix things.

 

God is Love. Praise Jah!

[Moise Racette]

6 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

It's time to tear down the class distinctions. It's time to build up the flock. Jesus rides for the sanctification of Jehovah's name. He is doing his work. Jehovah's name will be cleared of reproach. Jehovah is Our Father, and Everyone will have to know what that really means. Someday these things that seem "new" to us will be common knowledge. 

Does the poster mean a class distinction that Christ implemented by commissioning the apostles and then the apostles to the Elders and overseers? The kind of authority God gave man in the Old Testament?

I'd rather not take away from scripture what has already been inspired by God's arrangement. If I did, I would be submitting myself to man's authority.

Hebrews 13:17

New International Version

¹⁷ Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

Romans 13:1-2

New International Version

Submission to Governing Authorities

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. ² Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

I'd rather obey God just like the ones overseeing the spirituality of an Org that obeys God's commands, and NOT listen to an uneducated person that lacks bible knowledge.

Remember, the poster is condemning the poster's own soul by God's judgment.

 

 

[Guest]

It is proper to be in subjection to the superior authorities, even the authority of the elders and the governing body in the organization. Some elders are wonderful, spiritual, loving men, and they make it easy to submit to their loving direction. Others are not so kind or good. Yet those men are permitted their authority at present, just like Herod and Pilate were, and Jesus subjected himself to the authority of those unrighteous men. However, those authorities have limitations. If they ask us to do something beyond what is written, then "we must obey God as ruler rather than man."

 

Elders are supposed to shepherd the flock, not lord it over them. Shepherding implies getting down low to help others. You can't shepherd if you're figuratively wearing a fancy suit and afraid to get it dirty or stinky. Sheep get messy sometimes. They need rescuing from wolves. The Bible shows that being a real shepherd is about not being afraid what other people think;it's about standing up for Jehovah's little ones, and about being reasonable like Jesus. 

 

The Elder Book teaches elders the opposite of what the Bible teaches. It teaches rules rather than principles. It teaches "elders" how to protect the organization rather than the sheep. It trains perfectly good men to be unreasonable Pharisees and scribes. These training programs ruin wonderful brothers, churning out monstrous drones who "kill" faithful ones in the name of the governing body and "organization", sacrificing reason and love and the sheep on the altar of Baal (competition/pride/self-glory).

 

Even in Revelation, when the anointed are spoken of as "elders" it is referring to their role as "older persons" [πρεσβύτεροι], meaning those who are born first as Jehovah's sons, a new creation (the rest of Jehovah's earthly children will be made perfect sons at the end of the 1000 year reign); it is not referring to their role as priests or lords or kings. It is just showing one aspect of the kingdom arrangement.

 

The organization has said that the "stars" in Revelation mean the elders of the congregations. That is a lie. Jesus said "you are all brothers" and that the kings of the earth act as benefactors, but that is not to be the way among us.

 

"As for the sacred secret of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars mean the angels of the seven congregations, and the seven lampstands mean the seven congregations."

 

The Bible is clear. "The stars mean angels."

 

The governing body wants to teach that "angels mean elders" so that they can have scriptural authority to lord it over the flock. Their misapplication of scripture does not stand up under the fire of truth.

 

When the destruction comes upon the House of God at the beginning of the great tribulation, the angels will protect righteous ones who are sighing and groaning over what is going on in the organization. (Ezekiel 9) Real elders will be fine because they will keep shepherding the flock just like they always have. Fake elders will quit because they won't be getting their "glory" fix.

 

It is not a new thing for angels to lead the congregations under the direction of Christ and Jehovah God.

 

"I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared.  Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because my name is in him.  However, if you strictly obey his voice and do all that I say, I will show hostility to your enemies and oppose those who oppose you.  For my angel will go ahead of you and will bring you to the Amʹor·ites, the Hitʹtites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites, and I will annihilate them.  You must not bow down to their gods or be persuaded to serve them, and you must not imitate their practices. Instead, you must demolish them and smash their sacred pillars."

 

When the people disobeyed Jehovah's direction in the past and worshipped idols, it didn't go well for them.

 

"Go now, lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you. Look! My angel will go ahead of you, and on the day when I make an accounting, I will bring punishment on them for their sin.”  Then Jehovah began plaguing the people because they had made the calf, the one that Aaron had made."

 

Today, the people worship "idols" of the governing body, "idols" of the elder bodies, and "idols" of false doctrines that have permeated the congregations, just a foretold in Revelation chapters 2 and 3. Jesus gave direction to the angels of the congregations in Revelation and John wrote it down so we could see that Jesus knows exactly what is going on and he is going to have the angels take care of it, not some corrupt judicial committee, not some court, not some human organization. 

 

"The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.  At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen."

 

It is proper and scriptural to have organization and elders and a governing body. True elders work with the angels when those elders follow scriptural principles and the guidance of the holy spirit rather than manmade manuals made from Pharisaical traditions in opposition to Christ's direction.

 

If the governing body made a golden calf and told everybody to worship it, what would you do? That is exactly what has happened.  The governing body has equated "obedience to God" with "obedience to the governing body". Their making such an idol of themselves is shameful. We respect older brothers and accept proper counsel and comfort from older brothers who act like older brothers. But we will not worship the governing body or the elder bodies, because it is detestable to Jehovah. An "elder" is not an "elder" because of a title. They are an "elder" because of acting like a shepherd. No true "elder" would want such worship anyway. "We must obey God as ruler rather than men." "Jehovah knows those who belong to him."

 

Jesus is "coming down from the mountain" shortly. Jehovah gives him permission to clean up the "camp". Where do you want to be standing when he gets here? Next to the "golden calf"? I don't think so.

 

Are you an elder? An older brother? Here is Jesus' assignment: "Shepherd my little sheep."

 

Jehovah's name will be cleared of reproach. Praise Jehovah.

[Moise Racette]

30 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

Elders are supposed to shepherd the flock, not lord it over them. Shepherding implies getting down low to help others. You can't shepherd if you're figuratively wearing a fancy suit and afraid to get it dirty or stinky. Sheep get messy sometimes.

If the poster is referring to handling unclean souls in the congregation that are dealt with by God's law? That's not lording over, but keeping the congregation clean from bad influence.

That is part of their shepherding. If a sinner refuses to repent, then that sinner continues as a sinner. Where does it in scripture suggest that a congregation should accept the sins of unrepentant soul? Or do the gospels mean nothing to the poster?

The poster erroneously seeks to allow bad company in God's temple. Perhaps the poster will better serve as an advocate for the devil.

 

Titus 3:10 New International Version

 

¹⁰ Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.

[Moise Racette]

32 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

Today, the people worship "idols" of the governing body, "idols" of the elder bodies, and "idols" of false doctrines that have permeated the congregations, just a foretold in Revelation chapters 2 and 3. Jesus gave direction to the angels of the congregations in Revelation and John wrote it down so we could see that Jesus knows exactly what is going on and he is going to have the angels take care of it, not some corrupt judicial committee, not some court, not some human organization. 

Show proof of the Orgs members paying homage to the governing body and bowing down to them? This is by far the most nonsensical thing this poster has conveyed under false pretense. A Christian attribute, only coming from the devil.

[Witness]

1 hour ago, AnnaNana said:

It is proper and scriptural to have organization and elders and a governing body.

 

Dear AnnaNana,

I appreciate your exuberance in praising God. 

Ezekiel 44: 6-9 speaks of an abomination found in the early temple of God.  It explains that it is foreigners who have taken over the duties of the priesthood.  They are offering "daily sacrifices", instead of the anointed priests themselves.  This is happening in the organization on a spiritual level. The daily sacrifices of praise that should be declared freely by the anointed, has been silenced. The anointed themselves, have been silenced, even demeaned as mentally unbalanced, or not having any more Holy Spirit than anyone else...or declared not anointed at all.  (Dan 8:11-13; Matt 24:48-51) You are of "Israel", if you are anointed.( Rom 9:6-8, 24-26; 1 Pet 2:5,9-10)  This would make you part of the priesthood, and you are also a "living stone" of the spiritual Temple of God, where His Spirit dwells in the anointed heart.  (1 Pet 2:9-10; Rom 5:5; 1 Cor 3:16-17.  As a priest and anointed one, you are to give sacrifices of praise acceptable to God.  I see  you trying to doing that now and I personally appreciate it.  (Heb 13:15)  In the organization, it is impossible though,  because the priesthood has been replaced by "foreigners"/"Gentiles" - by the spiritually " uncircumcised" elder body.  That is the abomination standing in the holy place, the Temple of God, in the last days.  (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3). So it is our job to reveal the difference between the holy and the common.  (Lev 10:10; Ezek 44:23)

 

What I find an absolutely cunning move by the Watchtower, is the ability to convince the anointed that they can reside with the "Gentiles" and allow the elders to rule over THEM and judge THEM as worthy or not, before God. (1 Cor 6:2-3; Gal 1:10) That has never been a good or blessed situation by God.  It has always signified Israel's fall into sin, when they come under the domination of the "nations".  (Ezek 36:19-21)  And yet the organization and its false prophets under Satan's influence, has accomplished it. (Matt 24:24-25; Col 2:8; Rev 13:5-7,10; Rev 16:13-16) 

 

 God would allow foreigners to come into the nation of Israel, and  to be treated with compassion, but they had to follow His decrees and His arrangement of the holy priesthood.  (Deut 17:12,15; Mal 2:7) It is just the opposite in the Wt.  God's priests must follow the arrangement of the "Gentiles" (a little horn/king, Dan 8:9 ) and its harlot leaders, those of "Israel" who have fallen from the grace of God.  (Heb 12:15; Rev 8:10-11) This makes the organization an idol, a blasphemy in the eyes of God; and it is exalted over what God is building upon his Son - a holy Temple. (Rom1:25; Rev 13:4)  It has essentially trampled down God's spiritual Temple.  Even though you believe that the organization belongs to God, it doesn't!  It is a fortress that is set up in the world that Satan has control over.   (Dan 11:31,38-39; 8:12) Jesus said his kingdom is no part of this world!  So why would he approve of anything established by all the persuasive tools Satan has, to create a divergent from the Temple of living stones built on his body? (1 Cor chapter 12; Eph 2:20-22)  Our message in the last days is to "Israel", to God's holy people under covenant. ( Matt 10: 23,15)They and all with them, are to leave the abomination and idolatry enforced by their leaders,  behind. (Rev 18:4-8)  They are to reject the idol, even if the are  spiritually "killed" for speaking the truth in Christ. (Mark 8:34-38; John 16:2; Rev 13:15; 11:1-3,7; 12:11) It is vital that we discern what the man of lawlessness is in the last days, which is the abomination of desolation standing/sitting in the spiritual Temple of God.  It will  be destroyed when Jesus returns. (Mark 13:14: 2 Thess 2:1-4,8-20).   

 

I appeal to all elders, all JWs and God's holy anointed "kings of the earth", to leave the organization, now. 

Rev 1:5,6; 16:13-16; 17:1-6; 18:3; 20: 7-10