Cryosupernatant plasma

[Many Miles]

2 hours ago, Pudgy said:

...

What part of “abstain from blood” is unclear?

It's not unclear at all to me. It means we should abstain from blood the same as Noah was to abstain from blood. If Noah wanted to use a living animal's flesh as food to eat he had to kill the animal and he was to abstain from eating the blood of the animal he killed to eat.

Arguably, the same phrase also means we should abstain from unjustifiable homicide, just like Noah was to do.

[Matthew9969]

On 10/26/2023 at 9:11 AM, George88 said:

Slaughterhouses nowadays have a significant capacity, making it unnecessary to have a rabbi present to ensure the meat is kosher. That's part of their process as well, to pray over the meats. However, this also means that an equal amount of cow blood is left in both kosher and non-kosher meat, as well as in any meat containing blood. Given this, one might consider whether we should all become vegetarians, including those of Jewish faith. Your assessment is indeed accurate, as it is impossible to completely drain meat of blood. Therefore, an individual with a moral conscience can make an informed decision about consuming meat that may contain traces of blood, which aligns with your previously mentioned point. How else can we apply your view?

When I went to Israel last year, all their meat is kosher and man can you tell the difference in quality and taste. Even the double big mac I got from McDonalds taste better than here in the states.

[Pudgy]

53 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

When I went to Israel last year, all their meat is kosher and man can you tell the difference in quality and taste. Even the double big mac I got from McDonalds taste better than here in the states.

That’s because over there, it’s McDavid’s. 

[Pudgy]

3 hours ago, Many Miles said:

It's not unclear at all to me. It means we should abstain from blood the same as Noah was to abstain from blood. If Noah wanted to use a living animal's flesh as food to eat he had to kill the animal and he was to abstain from eating the blood of the animal he killed to eat.

Arguably, the same phrase also means we should abstain from unjustifiable homicide, just like Noah was to do.

Yes, that is certainly arguable.

Did Noah kill anyone?

[Many Miles]

On 10/25/2023 at 1:56 PM, Many Miles said:

Cryosupernatant plasma (also known as cryo-poor plasma, cryoprecipitate depleted [or reduced] plasma) is a product rendered from blood that is left to individual JWs to accept or decline purely as a personal choice.

For whatever reason(s), cryosupernatant plasma has never been mentioned in our publications addressing use of products rendered from blood. This despite cryoprecipitate plasma finding ready reference in the general search bar at jw.org.

Medical use of cryosupernatant plasma is said to have markedly improved medical outcomes for JWs who accept it, and particularly for those suffering from acquired thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura (TTP). In this case the use of cryosupernatant is as a plasma exchange. The procedure uses an IV tube placed in a vein to remove blood from a TTP patient. The blood will traverse a cell separator to remove plasma from the blood. The non-plasma part of the blood is saved, and the donated cryosupernatant plasma is added to it (replacing the patient’s own blood plasma). The blood is then put back into the patient’s system through an IV line. This process can take a couple hours, and the plasma replacement therapy will continue daily for days or weeks until symptoms improve.

Because plasma makes up the majority of our circulating blood, as you can imagine, this procedure requires a lot of donated blood plasma.

Recently I have found this blood product cited for therapeutic use at jw.org, but not in the general search engine. To find this reference you have to navigate to the link for Medical Information for Clinicians page and use the search engine there. I’m unsure how long this reference has been there, but it is now.

So, though we don’t find this product on any of our diagrams, it is there, and it can save lives.

In 2000 the society made a shift to be clearer about its position on what products rendered from the donor blood supply were prohibited. It prohibited whole blood, plasma, red cells, white cells and platelets. If it is a product rendered from blood other than these, the policy left it up to each JW to decide for themselves free of any community repercussion.

The irony

Most JWs have some knowledge of hospital liaison committees (HLC). They have training and materials for presentations to physicians and others in the medical field. Maybe the single largest published work for use by HLCs is titled Family Care and Medical Management for Jehovah's Witnesses. This published work was a boxed 3-ring binder published in 1992. It's about 300-350 pages. But other materials published for HLCs use were as short as a single page. There is such a single-page document date stamped "Rev.4/02". Its header reads "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES MEDICAL ALTERNATIVES TO BLOOD". The date stamp shows it's a document revised as of April 2002. At the bottom of the page there is a section titled "PERSONAL DECISION". The second item listed reads "Cryoprecipitate (contains small amt. of plasma)". There is irony in that statement.

The irony is that, on the same one-page flier, at the top is the section titled "NOT ACCEPTABLE". The third item listed is "plasma". The irony is found in the "plasma" term indicated in the PERSONAL DECISION section; it refers to cryosupernatant. The irony is, on this document, the society just calls the cryosupernatant "plasma", yet  "plasma" is in the NOT ACCEPTABLE category. I've had friends tell me cryosupernatant is not "plasma" that it is a fraction of "plasma". But, ironically, whoever put this April 2002 flier together understood that cryosupernatant is plasma. It's just cryoreduced plasma. But it is plasma nevertheless.

[George88]

LOL! Simply put, what is the difference between (P) and (PPF) that a witness should be able to understand? While one can be considered invalid, the word fraction comes up again for a person to make a decision on. 

[Pudgy]

There is NO Biblical injunction or prohibition against cannibalism … but for a moment, let’s assume God said “ABSTAIN FROM CANNIBALISM”, which all rational people would understand as “Don’t eat people”.

OK, got it. But you are a Catholic in a Castle on the coast of Valencia, Spain in 1099, under siege by the Muslim Hoards, and the people and soldiers are starving, seemingly about to be totally overwhelmed by the Moors and slaughtered. The Catholic Bishop is a guy that normally never misses a meal, even in times like these, and for  his entire life has preached “Abstain from cannibalism”, because in times like these, the issue does occasionally come up in real life.

The people are dying of starvation, but can still run HIM through with a sword, so he tells them “Any soldier or citizen killed may be eaten, as long as it does not appear to be people.” No faces, fingers, toes, genitals, etc., but brains, livers, and appendages cut into steaks are ok.

OH, and uh …. the Church leaves it up to your conscience to decide IF THESE FRACTIONAL PEOPLE ARE STILL “PEOPLE”, if the “fractions” are prepared and cooked so they are not recognizable.

The same “problem” exists with blood.

Separated  fractional blood, if it EVER WAS blood, does not ever cease being blood because of fractionalization, any more than a separated arm and a hand is not still a human arm and hand …. even when separated from the whole body.

[Thinking]

8 hours ago, Pudgy said:

There is NO Biblical injunction or prohibition against cannibalism … but for a moment, let’s assume God said “ABSTAIN FROM CANNIBALISM”, which all rational people would understand as “Don’t eat people”.

OK, got it. But you are a Catholic in a Castle on the coast of Valencia, Spain in 1099, under siege by the Muslim Hoards, and the people and soldiers are starving, seemingly about to be totally overwhelmed by the Moors and slaughtered. The Catholic Bishop is a guy that normally never misses a meal, even in times like these, and for  his entire life has preached “Abstain from cannibalism”, because in times like these, the issue does occasionally come up in real life.

The people are dying of starvation, but can still run HIM through with a sword, so he tells them “Any soldier or citizen killed may be eaten, as long as it does not appear to be people.” No faces, fingers, toes, genitals, etc., but brains, livers, and appendages cut into steaks are ok.

OH, and uh …. the Church leaves it up to your conscience to decide IF THESE FRACTIONAL PEOPLE ARE STILL “PEOPLE”, if the “fractions” are prepared and cooked so they are not recognizable.

The same “problem” exists with blood.

Separated  fractional blood, if it EVER WAS blood, does not ever cease being blood because of fractionalization, any more than a separated arm and a hand is not still a human arm and hand …. even when separated from the whole body.

So you can eat a T Bone or lamb loin chops or liver with out eating fractions of blood cooked along with them….or have I misunderstood you.

 

[Thinking]

On 10/28/2023 at 6:13 AM, Pudgy said:

Yes, that is certainly arguable.

Did Noah kill anyone?

Don’t think so…hope not!

[Pudgy]

On 11/24/2023 at 10:25 AM, Thinking said:

So you can eat a T Bone or lamb loin chops or liver with out eating fractions of blood cooked along with them….or have I misunderstood you.

You have missed the whole point of the analogous comparison that fractional blood has not ceased being blood just because it was separated from whole blood, any more than a human arm and hand separated from a whole human body has ceased being defined as a HUMAN body part.

Eating a fractional human body part is STILL  CANNIBALISM.

Any separate fraction of blood, if it EVER was whole blood … is still blood.

That ONLY changes after it is metabolized.