Jehovah's Witnesses sue the Netherlands state for discrimination

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, George88 said:

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If you want to provide evidence that Tamara was a minor at the time of the rape, and that the crime thus falls under the CSA according to today's criteria, please go ahead.

So, what you are saying, incest through rape should not be considered CSA. Now Tamar's age should be inconsequential to the act.

However, can you refute the articles, that is my main point.

Incest Under the Law

Sexual relations between family members who are not spouses, formally known as incest, is illegal across the U.S. because of the harm that it can cause to family relationships. States also recognize that children from incestuous relationships tend to struggle with genetic defects, which is another reason for prohibiting incest. Laws may prohibit sexual relations not only between blood relatives but also between certain people who are not blood relatives, such as adopted parents and children, stepparents and stepchildren, and foster parents and foster children. Close cousins are covered, but distant cousins may not be, unless they live in the same household like siblings. Meanwhile, some states outlaw marriages between close relatives, even if they do not involve sexual relations.

Incest often can be charged as a violation of a different law, such as child abuse, child molestation, rape, or statutory rape. A prosecutor can choose which type of charge to bring. Also, if a relationship does not technically qualify as incest under the definition in that state, the prosecutor may be able to charge the defendant with a different sex crime instead.

Pursuing an Incest Charge

Consent

Consent is not a defense to incest.

A prosecutor can bring an incest charge against someone who knowingly engaged in sexual relations with the type of person covered by the incest law. If they tried to engage in sexual relations, but no intercourse actually happened, a prosecutor might bring an attempted incest charge. A defendant cannot defeat a charge on the basis that the other person consented. If the other person did not consent, the defendant might face a rape charge as well, which could lead to much more serious penalties. If the other person was below the age of consent, the defendant might face a statutory rape charge in addition to the incest charge.

If the people in the encounter were close in age, the prosecution typically can bring charges against each of them. If one person is much older than the other, such as a parent and a child, only the older person may face charges. They may be viewed as a perpetrator and the younger person as a victim. If both people were under the age of majority, the prosecution might bring the case in juvenile court.

There are few defenses in these cases, other than challenging whether the incident happened. One procedural defense that may arise is the statute of limitations. Sometimes a long time passes between the incident and its discovery. Like most crimes, incest is subject to a statute of limitations, which requires the prosecution to bring charges within a certain period after the crime occurred. A defendant may get the case dismissed if they can successfully show that the statute of limitations has expired.

Statute of Limitations

Incest is generally subject to a statute of limitations and may not be charged if too long a time has passed since the occurrence.

Penalties for Incest

Incest is often charged as a felony, as are crimes like rape and statutory rape that are related to it. This means that a defendant who is convicted may face years in prison. If it is charged as a misdemeanor, the defendant may spend several months in jail. Also, the judge may order the people involved in the incident to be separated. A child of a parent convicted of incest may be taken away and placed in foster care. If a conviction of a sex crime accompanies the incest conviction, the defendant may need to register as a sex offender.

https://www.justia.com/criminal/offenses/other-crimes/incest/

6 hours ago, George88 said:

However, can you refute the articles, that is my main point.

The article does not answer the topic, whether JWs are discriminated against in the Netherlands.

[Srecko Sostar]

On 12/13/2023 at 7:37 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

On 12/13/2023 at 7:19 PM, George88 said:

Here is something for your contemplation.

*** g91 10/8 p. 4 The Secret Wounds of Child Abuse ***
The Secret Wounds of Child Abuse
 

Take a good look at the article and the DATE it was published, before and after the more recent activities by the government. Perhaps had they paid attention to some of the Watchtower articles, they might have done something about it sooner, and not when the U.N. made it a political sticking point in 2013.

Then after you read the article, refute it if you can.

The article you presented cites many secular sources, hence the "human perspective", which WTJWorg alarms its members against, in general.

A few Bible quotes do not make WTJWorg an expert on child abuse. You have not actually contributed any arguments that would elevate the "spiritual help" of the Society over the professional help provided by a professional secular institution.

The Bible does not even mention what types of violence against children were known, visible in biblical times. Nowhere (as far as I know) does the Bible explicitly condemn (sexual or other) violence against children, nor does it give specific insight into how such children can be helped.

 

[George88]

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Incest often can be charged as a violation of a different law, such as child abuse, child molestation, rape, or statutory rape.

The article presents a compelling argument about the concept of incest being classified as "child abuse" under modern law, much like it might have been in Tamar's era if Jewish laws had been formulated to address it. Therefore, the assertion that scripture downplays such a serious issue is unfounded.

 

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Statute of Limitations

Incest is generally subject to a statute of limitations and may not be charged if too long a time has passed since the occurrence.

So are most of the cases that have gone before the courts about child abuse. This hasn't stopped the governments from shifting policies to suit their needs. 

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The article does not answer the topic, whether JWs are discriminated against in the Netherlands.

To what extent can governments dispute the fact that the Watchtower has consistently raised the alarm on these issues? They simply cannot. What they can do, however, is alter their policies to suppress issues that are not prohibited by the laws of those governments for other religious groups due to their regulations. When a government seeks to impose its control on a religion, it is clear discrimination.

[George88]

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The article you presented cites many secular sources, hence the "human perspective", which WTJWorg alarms its members against, in general.

A few Bible quotes do not make WTJWorg an expert on child abuse. You have not actually contributed any arguments that would elevate the "spiritual help" of the Society over the professional help provided by a professional secular institution.

The Bible does not even mention what types of violence against children were known, visible in biblical times. Nowhere (as far as I know) does the Bible explicitly condemn (sexual or other) violence against children, nor does it give specific insight into how such children can be helped.

Whose standards are you mentioning? Are you referring to former members who are unable to associate alleged issues related to different forms of child abuse since the late 1970s? Just as the Pharisees had no authority over Jesus, former and current members also, lack authority over the Watchtower.

Many people seem to overlook the fact that those who are now seen as spiritual Israel, God's chosen ones, are being targeted and criticized by both outsiders and insiders. In doing so, they are directly condemning God for His choice.
When did institutions or governments assume the duty of ensuring that their citizens or members fully comprehend the laws of man, laws of nature, or even the laws of God? A well-rounded individual should, without a doubt, learn the fundamental principles of obedience and have a thorough understanding of them.

Do you think anyone fully understands the numerous civic laws, municipal codes, and county, city, state, and federal laws until they are directly affected by them? Who bears responsibility for this lack of knowledge?

Understanding the laws of God is your sole responsibility. Your salvation cannot be ensured by anyone else but yourself. This has been the case since the beginning of time and remains unchanged. The only modification has been the method of delivering God's message, transitioning from oral to written.

This is why the Psalmist in Psalms 19:14, and Psalm 119:11 reaffirms what is echoed in Matthew 22:37 and (Matthew 28:19-20).

In school, a teacher's role is to provide guidance and knowledge. However, once they have fulfilled their duty of imparting education, it is ultimately the student's responsibility to carry on learning.

The question that needs to be addressed by all nations of the world is: Where does the unwritten law lie that holds the teacher responsible for the actions of their students? Once they have acquired the skills to be accountable adults?