JWs sue Norwegian government

[Srecko Sostar]

 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Even then, Lopes added, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t force members to limit or cease association with former congregants, whether they’ve been disfellowshipped or withdrawn voluntarily—that’s up to individuals. - https://www.baptiststandard.com/news/world/jehovahs-witnesses-sue-norway-after-registration-revoked/

Real instructions found in WTJWorg publications:

 

Regarding everyone who “does not remain in the teaching of the Christ,” we read: “Do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.” (2 John 9-11) We do not have spiritual or social fellowship with disfellowshipped ones. The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 25, stated: “A simple ‘Hello’ to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?”

Is strict avoidance really necessary?  Yes, for several reasons.

- https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/gods-love/disfellowshipped-person/

 

Conclusion is these: JW force members to limit and cease association with former members. In other words, WTJWorg representatives (members and non-members) tell untruths aka lies.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

A detail that could perhaps be important for the court in Oslo, but also globally, is this: Is ostracism towards disobedient former members the product of an institutional order, rule, doctrine, practice?

Many ex-Jws have left WTJWorg because they do not agree with JWs doctrines. Such members, we can say, actually "change their religion" in such a way. In this context, WTJWorg must not exert any kind of pressure on such persons because such behavior falls under "religiously motivated hatred and persecution" against those who do not share the same religious beliefs as JWs.

So, I think that JWs should look more deeply at the way and consequences of their own interpretations of certain biblical quotes. While WTJWorg appeals to the UN rights and freedom of belief/religion, at the same time JW religious leaders and JW members grossly violate them with their own actions.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, George88 said:

Does Jerome's opinion really matter to God?

He presented arguments from other sources. It's up to you to take them seriously.

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, George88 said:

Your recent post on freedom of religion contradicts you. It is crucial to understand that every institution has the right to worship God according to its own beliefs, and neither you nor any government should impose restrictions on how they establish their bylaws. The Watchtower, for instance, defines its principles based on scripture. Unless you have substantial evidence to challenge scripture, your activism serves no purpose.

I am of the opinion that "every institution" should primarily act in accordance with the Law that comes from "secular authorities".
JWs misinterpret the Bible when they say that world governments are under the "authority of Satan", because such an interpretation is contrary to the statement we find in the same Bible in Rom 13, which says: "1 Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. 2Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves."

If you will say that the apostles showed that one can be disobedient, because they said; "We must obey God rather than men", then let's keep in mind that the apostles were disobedient to the "religious authorities" when they said this. That is context.

Every other example of disobedience on the part of believers (Jews or Christians) that we find in the Bible, and is connected with political, i.e. secular authorities, is only proof that the secular authorities, if the law is such, will be able to punish you without remorse. And in that case, the statement from Romans 13 will prove quite clear and logical context.

Whether any of this in life is fair or not is up for debate as much as whether "WTJWorg theology" is fair or not.

What is or will be the perception of a believer or a religious community, is their problem. Whether one of them will consider it as "persecution" or simply "punishment of a disobedient citizen or religious institution" is a matter of interpretation. And that is a wide field that can be manipulated in the public space.

God says, "if you don't obey, you will be punished". The Government says the same.

"Religious authorities" in the form of JWs elders can engage in "punishment" as part of their own "interpretations" of the Bible and other texts in their publications. But they are subordinate, lower than the Law of a state. Many religions, such as WTJWorg, because of this status, often use "theocratic methods" to circumvent the Law.
The most common method is to misrepresent the facts, distort them or completely hide them. They do this, very often, in the public space, in front of the media and in the courts and in front of other "secular" institutions.

7 hours ago, George88 said:

It is troubling to see governments and ex-witnesses condemning the Watchtower's use of the Bible as its constitution. It reminds me of Hitler and Nazi Germany. This comparison is deeply concerning and should not be taken lightly.

WTJWorg is teaming up with some political bodies to fight for "their religious freedoms" against some states where the laws are not favorable to JWs. The parallel you are talking about also exists in such a relationship between JW religion and "satanic" political bodies . You are conflicted, aren't you?

The courts are of the opinion that the existence of various religious communities is necessary for the pluralism of society. JWs have the opportunity to be registered and active because of this attitude of the state. They can exist because of "pluralism".

On the other hand, WTJWorg and consequently JWs have the view that pluralism is harmful. This can be seen in their preaching activity, i.e. "educational and humanitarian program" in which they condemn all other religions as "false religions", in which they condemn all political bodies as "satanic instruments". It is also seen in the relentless "persecution" of anyone who disagrees with GB theology.

So, hypocrisy in its full force.

[Srecko Sostar]

33 minutes ago, George88 said:

The Watchtower adheres to secular laws in a manner that does not violate God's laws.

and in continue you said this:

34 minutes ago, George88 said:

You are promoting disobedience.

With first claim you you in fact said how WTJWorg promote disobedience against secular laws (by interpreting Bible text as they see it is fit to their understanding). lol

39 minutes ago, George88 said:

Disobedience carries consequences.

In both ways.

40 minutes ago, George88 said:

How can one possibly engage in a debate with the Almighty? When did humanity assume a position of superiority over God in your perspective? God bestowed His laws for us to embrace, while also granting us the remarkable gift of free will.

The very fact that "free will" exists allows man to be "superior" to God, in a certain way. It may sound strange, but God cannot force you to do as He wants. Well, His "omnipotence" over man is only in the possibility that God will "kill" you because you do not want to listen/obey Him. But what is actually proven by that? Only that there is someone physically stronger than an individual or the whole world.

If God "gave free will" to people, He gave them a powerful tool (weapon) against Himself. In a way, He equated them with himself, and occasionally in some situations people became, conditionally speaking, "superior" in relation to God.

When God gave free will to people, He knew what good and bad things could come from it. So, people should not be judged for choosing to use their free will. It is only a consequence of the "opportunity" given to them. No one is to blame. Neither God nor people.

Consequences of free choice? It is just the result of a consensus reached about what is considered "good" and what is "bad". And as we can see, the benchmarks, principles are changing, even at WTJWorg.

[Srecko Sostar]

The easiest way to refute WTJWorg and Jehovah's Witnesses is their own literature. Here is another of the many examples that prove how GB loses all credibility when they wants to sue states/governments and former members of its church.

"No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family." - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102009251

Institutional rules based on GB interpretations of the Bible have exactly this effect - forcing only one type of worship that is determined by GB theology even though the person feels threatened by it.
Compulsion to choose; or family or religion.

I hope that the Court in Oslo will expose the hypocrisy and misrepresentation of all those who represented and defended JWs in court.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, George88 said:

Only someone who disrespects and denies the existence of God would hold such a belief. This is the root of your issue - presuming that you have the authority to question God, which you don't.

JWs explain that God left Satan and Adam and Eve alive so that questions about who has the right to rule and similar questions about God's justice could be answered. Because if God immediately punished them with death, the angels would have doubts as to whether the rebels were right after all.

This actually means that God has allowed his authority to be questioned, by humans and angels, until today. So, you didn't reason correctly, and you didn't understand the answer I gave. Your comment means that if you are a JW, you haven't studied the official theology of the WTJWorg enough. And neither were they when they explained the events in Paradise that way. Because such explanation by GB open door to comment in the way i gave.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, George88 said:

I hope that the courts will expose former witnesses for trying to distort scripture.

In court it is not about biblical quotations/scripture, but about the results, the consequences of the instructions that have been institutionally embedded through the Legal Entity aka WTJWorg and JWs.

[Srecko Sostar]

18 minutes ago, George88 said:

It's important to recognize that God did not create Satan; instead, He created an Angel who chose to rebel and become Satan. These are two distinct identities arising from the same creator. The transformation from good to bad was a result of personal choice, not a direct act of God. 

As I already said, "free will". lol

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, George88 said:

Great! Applying it in its proper context shouldn't pose any difficulties. God values the presence of "good" free will rather than "bad" free will. If you grasp this distinction sooner rather than later, it will lead to a better outcome for you, or not. lol!

You are truly fantastic. Now you are introducing a whole new terminology and thesis into JWs beliefs system: "good free will" vs "bad free will".

Are you perhaps in the class called "GB Helpers"? lol

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, George88 said:

your will be done,

....your GOOD will be done, ........

lol