Jehovah's Witnesses sue the Netherlands state for discrimination

[George88]

2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Certainly one can have a conversation about that, why didn't they sue WTJWorg earlier.

 

Do you think it would have benefited the victim and lawyer back then, as it does now?

5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

We can guess. But we can speculate as to why WTJWorg has secret files on perpetrators and victims that go back even further (as much as 70 years). They have not published any articles about it or what they have done to help the children.

This is also a guess by former members who have argued it over the internet. How many governments allow you personally to see their internal documentation? Now be honest!

7 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

At that time, close relatives could marry (in young age too), as is evident from Tamara's words. Today, they would call it incest or similar. 
Furthermore, Absalom kept secret what happened and did not allow Tamara to report the crime to the "authorities". A long-standing practice of JW elders. Here they found a pattern of behavior?

So, if a brother violates his sister, it's incest and not "child sexual abuse." It seems stranger coming from you to think that way. It also seems you are making an inference to age and marriage to justify the act of rape.

Since the complete story is not mentioned in scripture aside from the act itself, how would you know what process was taken aside from Amnon's outcome by Absalom?

15 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Jonadab is a trickster like some JW religious leaders today. What is there to be surprised about. David could have had information about the event

This personal observation can apply to anyone, not just spiritual leaders. It has too broad of an implication for any meaningful dialogue.

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, George88 said:

This is also a guess by former members who have argued it over the internet. How many governments allow you personally to see their internal documentation? Now be honest!

WTJWorg is not government!

 

10 hours ago, George88 said:

So, if a brother violates his sister, it's incest and not "child sexual abuse." It seems stranger coming from you to think that way. It also seems you are making an inference to age and marriage to justify the act of rape.

Since the complete story is not mentioned in scripture aside from the act itself, how would you know what process was taken aside from Amnon's outcome by Absalom?

A marriage between Tamara and Amnon would be incest by today's moral standards. In the culture of the Jews of that time, it would have been normal. Rape is another part of the story of Tamara and Amnon, so I don't know how you came to the conclusion that it is something I approve of. Rape as a crime has nothing to do with whether people are related or not. You are strange when you draw wrong conclusions about my comments.

The problem that arises from the fact that the Bible is silent is a problem that is not mine. I have the right to my interpretation, regardless of whether my opinion is wrong or right or something else. The positive side is that I do not impose my point of view on anyone, and on other side, GB implements its interpretations as a dogma that you JWs are obliged to obey.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

https://nos.nl/artikel/2501440-rechter-onderzoek-seksueel-misbruik-jehova-s-getuigen-geen-discriminatie

[Srecko Sostar]

What to Know

Prosecute is most often used to refer to bringing legal action against someone else, and is related to the Latin word for "pursue." It is often confused with persecute which means "to harass, torment, or punish, especially for one's beliefs." If you find yourself frequently one the wrong side of prosecution, you might end up feeling persecuted.

[Pudgy]

Of course, for 40 years and more I believed that Cain married a sister, because I never thought of it that there could be another explanation that made a lot more sense.

At the time he was exiled, besides Adam and Eve he was the only direct created man on earth … “Homo Theocraticus” if you will … and since there is hard fossil evidence … hundreds of tons of hard fossil evidence from all over the world of “homo sapien” civilizations that predate Eden … enough that Cain was afraid of being killed WHEREVER HE ROAMED, there is no need to assume incest with his imaginary “sisters” who did not yet exist.

[George88]

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg is not government!

The governments don't base themselves on scripture, so I don't see the point of this comment.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

A marriage between Tamara and Amnon would be incest by today's moral standards. In the culture of the Jews of that time, it would have been normal. Rape is another part of the story of Tamara and Amnon, so I don't know how you came to the conclusion that it is something I approve of. Rape as a crime has nothing to do with whether people are related or not. You are strange when you draw wrong conclusions about my comments.

You previously mentioned child abuse and the lack of awareness about it in ancient times. Have you now shifted your focus? I asked whether you consider "incest" to be a form of child abuse, and you have since changed the topic.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The problem that arises from the fact that the Bible is silent is a problem that is not mine. I have the right to my interpretation, regardless of whether my opinion is wrong or right or something else. The positive side is that I do not impose my point of view on anyone, and on other side, GB implements its interpretations as a dogma that you JWs are obliged to obey.

Aren't we still debating the Tamar incident? You've been persistently pushing your viewpoint for a significant period of time, even though it could be seen as an unquestioned belief. So, what sets it apart?

Yet the Watchtower also talked about "incest" back in the 1980s.

*** g81 2/8 p. 16 Incest—The Hidden Crime ***
Incest—The Hidden Crime

*** w83 10/1 p. 27 Help for the Victims of Incest ***
Help for the Victims of Incest
 

Can you disprove the publications? Or do you not believe that "incest" is a form of child abuse?

[George88]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Prosecute is most often used to refer to bringing legal action against someone else, and is related to the Latin word for "pursue." It is often confused with persecute which means "to harass, torment, or punish, especially for one's beliefs." If you find yourself frequently one the wrong side of prosecution, you might end up feeling persecuted.

Does this assessment align with a basic or scriptural definition, considering that the "codex" would not support it?

[George88]

Caine, if he got married, would have married a woman who was 20X removed from his lineage given that Adam lived almost a thousand years.

[George88]

Consequently, Jesus was "pursued" and later "persecuted" due to his ministry in that form. This form can be used to address any kind of injustice.

[Srecko Sostar]

21 hours ago, George88 said:

What age do you think Tamar was when Amnon violated her? There is a belief that even at the age of 18, people in ancient times would still be regarded as children. I find it hard to believe that Tamar was actually that old. However, my true outrage lies with the actions of Amnon and the instigator, Jonadab.

If you want to provide evidence that Tamara was a minor at the time of the rape, and that the crime thus falls under the CSA according to today's criteria, please go ahead.

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, George88 said:

You previously mentioned child abuse and the lack of awareness about it in ancient times. Have you now shifted your focus? I asked whether you consider "incest" to be a form of child abuse, and you have since changed the topic.

If you want to provide evidence that the Bible directly, clearly talks about CSA (CSA according to today's criteria) and lists it as something God forbids, please go ahead.

 

[George88]

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If you want to provide evidence that Tamara was a minor at the time of the rape, and that the crime thus falls under the CSA according to today's criteria, please go ahead.

So, what you are saying, incest through rape should not be considered CSA. Now Tamar's age should be inconsequential to the act.

However, can you refute the articles, that is my main point.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If you want to provide evidence that the Bible directly, clearly talks about CSA (CSA according to today's criteria) and lists it as something God forbids, please go ahead.

Why should scripture clearly state something that can be applied as implied? It seems you want to deflect and defer your argument. Unlike MM, will I get a straight answer from you?