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JW Lawyer on Disfellowshipping and Shunning


Jack Ryan

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14 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@JOHN BUTLER So I guess that makes you an Anti-Pauline? Anti-Paulines reject whatever Paul's preaching, even removed or ignore it in the Bible itself. Disfellowshipped people are shunned by the congregation, not as much by family. Last I checked we are not of Judaisim where anything and everythi is 100% cut off.

You would have read enough comments on here to know how JW's treat those that are d/fed and those that leave the org.

Some Witnesses have no feelings, they just go by the 'rules' of the JW Org. For instance :-

Our only daughter (H) that is still in the Org, 'grassed up' one of our other daughters, to the Elders. 

(H) didn't even consult us, mum and dad, even though I was still a JW and my wife was attending meetings with me and was an unbaptised publisher. (H) had some information and she just wanted to go straight to the Elders. She has no love, no mercy, she is just a robot JW. But other JW's see her as a really good person. 

The daughter that was 'in trouble' chose to leave the Org. But even though i was still a JW I stated to everyone that I would not shun my daughter. And my wife and I kept in contact with her.  So like I say it is an individual thing. 

However, when I left the JW Org of my own choice, because of the serious Child Abuse problem within it, I was completely shunned by the whole congregation, around 120 to 130 people. 

Now you show me 3 scriptures that directly state that congregants should shun me for leaving the Org for a good reason ? 

In my honest opinion the scriptures are written for the Anointed, not the earthly class. 

Much more is expected of the Anointed because they have a much closer relationship with God. (And i mean the true Anointed, not your GB) 

But your comment is about your worship of men, the GB. You are trying to protect their reputation. 

You are not looking for justice or mercy. You do not have 'the mind of Christ'. You are like our daughter (H), just a robot for the JW Org. 

Using silly expressions such as Anti-Pauline. Does it make you feel good ? I'm not impressed. 

God and Jesus Christ know everything about everyone. They know when people are falsely disfellowshipped, that is, disfellowshipped for non scriptural reasons, and they know when a person is shunned because that person takes an action in line with God's word. 

Your GB have placed themselves on high. They think they have the right to make non-scriptural rules to domineer people, just like the Pharisees did. 

If you are happy with that so be it, but be careful they may just turn on you some day. 

 

 

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Well, there were 2 inaccurate points that lawyer made, they have to seat in the second room or at the back of the hall and not allow to enter the hall before prayer and they have to leave the hall bef

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On 1/25/2019 at 12:34 PM, Shiwiii said:

 You think that the gb is on par with Paul? 

Wow, just wow. They got you good

Even outside of the faith this is the practice. Where do you think the practice originated from if you don't mind me asking and from whose congregation?

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On 1/25/2019 at 2:11 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

You would have read enough comments on here to know how JW's treat those that are d/fed and those that leave the org.

Some Witnesses have no feelings, they just go by the 'rules' of the JW Org. For instance :-

Our only daughter (H) that is still in the Org, 'grassed up' one of our other daughters, to the Elders. 

(H) didn't even consult us, mum and dad, even though I was still a JW and my wife was attending meetings with me and was an unbaptised publisher. (H) had some information and she just wanted to go straight to the Elders. She has no love, no mercy, she is just a robot JW. But other JW's see her as a really good person. 

The daughter that was 'in trouble' chose to leave the Org. But even though i was still a JW I stated to everyone that I would not shun my daughter. And my wife and I kept in contact with her.  So like I say it is an individual thing. 

However, when I left the JW Org of my own choice, because of the serious Child Abuse problem within it, I was completely shunned by the whole congregation, around 120 to 130 people. 

Now you show me 3 scriptures that directly state that congregants should shun me for leaving the Org for a good reason ? 

In my honest opinion the scriptures are written for the Anointed, not the earthly class. 

Much more is expected of the Anointed because they have a much closer relationship with God. (And i mean the true Anointed, not your GB) 

But your comment is about your worship of men, the GB. You are trying to protect their reputation. 

You are not looking for justice or mercy. You do not have 'the mind of Christ'. You are like our daughter (H), just a robot for the JW Org. 

Using silly expressions such as Anti-Pauline. Does it make you feel good ? I'm not impressed. 

God and Jesus Christ know everything about everyone. They know when people are falsely disfellowshipped, that is, disfellowshipped for non scriptural reasons, and they know when a person is shunned because that person takes an action in line with God's word. 

Your GB have placed themselves on high. They think they have the right to make non-scriptural rules to domineer people, just like the Pharisees did. 

If you are happy with that so be it, but be careful they may just turn on you some day. 

 

 

Happy with what? I told you the same point last time, only this time you have an audience. Pops, if I didn't have the mind of Christ then why are you the one not explaining anything of Christ properly? I'm pretty sure you said before you dont know as much and want to learn more about God.

Bud, if I had no feelings for anyone I wouldn't be preaching to people. I've been teaching people about God and the Bible and not only it makes me feel good, but it makes the person I preach to feel good. There's one person in particular who is a special case whereas I made promise to meet with her at least 2-3 times a week. It is something that is both personal and private. 

Disfellowshiping or excommunicating was something others have spoken to you about on occasion. I can see how the application doesn't stick because it goes into one ear and out the other.

I don't worship men, I worship God alone. Christains just offer me to tools to be an effective preacher, reading the Bible, etc. Which is no different to how it was done in the past, theres actually historical works of how first century congregations and onward operate, which is no different with us today.

Anti-pauline is a legitimate expression, its only silly if you are ignorant about it, but allow me to explain. This is also ironic because you just said I don't have the mind of Christ. An Anti-pauline is a person who rejects anything Apostle Paul says, does or writes. Anti-paulines also reject Paul's word about excommunication also.

Also good evening, or good morning where you are.

Can you give an example of non scriptural rules? Paul was up there with Clement, they gave a word in to the congregations too.

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"Pops", "Bud," from a 15 year old that thinks he knows everything. Oh dear.

From a 'person' that uses a black ghost to identify with. Interesting, from a supposed JW. 

Quote "There's one person in particular who is a special case whereas I made promise to meet with her at least 2-3 times a week. It is something that is both personal and private." 

Um, are you a young man meeting up with a female in private ? That is a disfellowshipping offence you know. No two witnesses needed to accuse you of fornication. GB rules. 

Quote 'Anti-pauline is a legitimate expression'. Yes so is homophobia. What point are you trying to prove ? 

I love and believe Paul's writings to the congregations. However my feelings are that Paul was talking to those of the Heavenly Class / the Anointed, not to any of the earthly class. More is expected of the Anointed because they have been given more responsibility and have a greater reward. (Being in heaven with God and Jesus Christ is surely a greater award, even though a pure life here on Earth will be wonderful ).

Quote "Can you give an example of non scriptural rules ? "  

The two witness rule concerning Child Abuse. 

The misuse of the scripture about the Superior Authorities, from 1929 to 1962  I believe. 

The accusation of fornication if a man and woman enters a place with no other Witnesses with them. 

( But no accusation about two men or two women, which could be seen by others are homosexuality ).

The Blood Issue rules that keep changing. 

The shunning rules, when a person 'resigns' from the JW Org. 

Reasons the GB use for disfellowshipping. (This touches on other subjects but would make another topic).

So young person, I'm not your 'Pops' and I'm not your 'Bud'. 

You completely lost your side of this discussion by using those expressions, and yes, you showed yourself as Not having the Mind of Christ

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On 1/25/2019 at 2:11 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Using silly expressions such as Anti-Pauline. Does it make you feel good ? I'm not impressed. 

No. This simply shows that @Equivocation is well-read and that you, despite bolting from the Witnesses, have not compensated for that lack by becoming so.

It is pretty common outside of the JW world to refer to the “Pauline writings” and find uniqueness in them. After all, he wrote about half of the New Testament. 

Since the overall world cannot comprehend unity, (because it doesn’t exist for them) they focus on points of uniqueness and figure that each one is grounds for division and dispute. They cannot conceive of people smoothing over things because it doesn’t happen for them. (Of course, I am speaking in generalities)

Often it is said that Paul is essentially a “co-creator” of Christianity. It is he that put most of the Mosiac Law underpinnings to the Way, spelling them out in his letters. The Michael Hart book “The 100,” rating the most 100 influential persons who have ever lived, ranks Jesus (#3) after Mohammad (#1)largely for this reason—he reasons that Mohammad is fully responsible for founding his religion, but Jesus is only half-responsible for founding his. Paul is #6. Isaac Newton, @James Thomas Rook Jr. will be happy to know, is #2, since he is considered the father of science, which rivals religion in the eyes of many and is on the ascendency.

Hart also ranks Mohammad before Jesus on the basis that Mohammad’s followers by and large follow him, but Jesus’ “followers” by and large do not.

Of course, I view this co-creatorship between Jesus and Paul differently. To my mind, it is to be expected, given Paul’s background and education. He is “bringing his [scholarly] gift to the altar,” doing what the simple folks that comprised early Christian leadership, Peter, John, James, etc, could hardly have been expected to do.

Jesus could have done it, of course, but his course was not to suck up to the “educated people,” as though he needed their validation. His course was to appeal to the uncomplicated heart. Let others fill in the scholarly and (for the typical person) boring details—not boring to everyone, of course, but it is well known that Paul’s writings are not the synch to read that Jesus’ sayings are.

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Someone in our congregation had recently been reinstated. Not going to go about the what she did because that is on a "What'chu talkin about Willis" type level. But even before that she always attended and whatnot. But yeah, we welcomed her back with open arms. For us Latinos it is, well some of us, it is as if it is a reunion party of some sort.

 

On 2/2/2019 at 11:10 PM, Jack Ryan said:

is it ok for a JW fireman to rescue people from a burning church?

This is how JW's constantly think..... get real folks...

What's wrong with that? Also you maaaaaaay wanna look at the article as a whole..... yeaaaahhhh jajaja.

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