Jump to content
The World News Media


Pudgy

Recommended Posts

  • Member
2 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Can you explain to the visitor how shunning is violent? In that respect, when none believers shun a family member or a member of society because they are either drunkards, or drug addicts, how would that be a violent schism?

Are you such an uninformed visitor? I doubt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 3.7k
  • Replies 34
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I had all that info' come through on an email as I'm on the mailing list.   Jesus made it very clear that true Christians should turn the other cheek, give the inner/outer garmnet also, walk the

I don't think they get paid for this, I think they do it for free....just like everyone else who does any work for the org. if they're a JW.

Yes, as for the lawyers who decided to volunteer for WTJWorg. I think there were law firms that were hired outside of WTJWorg. Maybe some JW brother / elder who has his own law firm or a “secular” law

Posted Images

  • Member
2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Are you such an uninformed visitor? I doubt.

I'm talking about your mental state, not mind. This doesn't answer the question before you. When nonbelievers SHUN their family members or members of society because they are either "drunkards" or "drug addicts"? How is shunning violent?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 2/23/2022 at 8:00 PM, Dmitar said:

I'm talking about your mental state, not mind. This doesn't answer the question before you. When nonbelievers SHUN their family members or members of society because they are either "drunkards" or "drug addicts"? How is shunning violent?

Yes but JWs are forced to shun ex-jws, and those ex-jws could well be innocent, free of the sins that the Elders condemn them for. In cases of CSA people have been removed from congregations for demanding that a pedophile be investigated or removed from the congregation. Sometime that pedophile is an Elder and the other elders protect the pedophile by removing or disfellowshipping the victims of sexual abuse.  Such cases have been proven in the courtrooms of the Superior Authorities. But some people don't want to believe vicitms of CSA, those people would sooner serve the GB and it's immoral Org. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes but JWs are forced to shun ex-jws, and those ex-jws could well be innocent, free of the sins that the Elders condemn them for.

Isn't that the point of doing a proper investigation by Elders, and whenever necessary, law enforcement?

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

In cases of CSA people have been removed from congregations for demanding that a pedophile be investigated or removed from the congregation.

You need to clarify this thought. What people?

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Sometime that pedophile is an Elder and the other elders protect the pedophile by removing or disfellowshipping the victims of sexual abuse.  Such cases have been proven in the courtrooms of the Superior Authorities.

If there has been an instance where a cover-up was proven by secular authority, the Watchtower would be in the same type of litigation the Vatican finds itself in. Thus far, it's been about individuals not applying secular laws before the government included clergy. You seem to forget that tidbit. Now, I understand former Jehovah's Witnesses claims, just not in the same sense you are claiming.

A perfect example would be with Cardinal Pell.

Cardinal Pell's Sexual Abuse Conviction Overturned By Australia's High Court The former Vatican treasurer, who had been the highest-ranking Roman Catholic cleric ever found guilty of sexual abuse, was ordered released from prison, where he was serving a six-year sentence.

What you are saying, the Australian government conspired with the Vatican to get a favorable outcome.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
17 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes but JWs are forced to shun ex-jws, and those ex-jws could well be innocent

From what some of us know, they shun the excommunicated of the church. Blood ties excluded, but Church ties is deemed from this action. Then there is Apostasy, in which one is to use shun command (Expelling) outright, especially when there are situation where people weaponize ill acts against people and or their faith, in this case, CSA. Not to mention weaponizing CSA also causes child predators to be lured into an institution, a recent situation was done in regards to the social media space, actually 2, in which a potential danger is met.

Not to mention the fact any EXJW who actually have solutions, is shut down by disgruntled EXJWs.

It should also be noted there are 3 known forms of Excommunication, in which shunning is connected to it. I believe this was explained to you when you went by the name Butler and 4Jah2me. The only reason there is a view about it is because Mainstream Christianity's version of Excommunication differs, in which they view the latter as not Biblical and or shouldn't be used, to cut out a subnet of Excommunication. It can also be noted, perhaps the notation attest to the fact how people view the modern term of shunning vs the Biblical.

Even outside of religion, the practice is applied by others, to Excommunicate, also to shun (Expel).

It should also be noted that this command associated with Excommunication didn't start with Jehovah's Witnesses, granted it was around for a while. It can also be noted minor or major actions can lead to grounds of Excommunication resulting in the effects used.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 2/23/2022 at 2:51 PM, Dmitar said:

Can you explain to the visitor how shunning is violent? In that respect, when none believers shun a family member or a member of society because they are either drunkards, or drug addicts, how would that be a violent schism?

Well this is true, even outside of any faith community the Shunning Command is a practice in society, even outside of such addictions, i.e. a person committed an act that effects the family, therefore, the person is excommunicated, so to speak, from the family, and is shunned to others, limited contact if the minor action results in the latter being repentant for their action.

That being said, I've seen my fair share of people being ostracized by their family/relatives in broad daylight. And this continues, for some who repented for their actions, others, continue to dwell even further into a rebellious nature, to the extreme actions where there is bodily harm and or death.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
7 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

even outside of any faith community the Shunning Command is a practice in society

You revealed new light for me. You mentioned the expression "Shunning Command" that exist "outside of any faith community".

I would like to know who or what imposes such a “commandment” on people who are not believers? 

Also, do such “infidels” you mention bear any consequences if they don’t want to apply the “shunning command” to their loved ones or to some other people around them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You revealed new light for me. You mentioned the expression "Shunning Command" that exist "outside of any faith community".

This isn't new, it was talked about before, and the notation of Excommunication existed from the 1st century church and onward. It is related to the binding and loosening of the church itself.

The only reason why many, even EXJWs see it as outlandish is because Mainstream Christendom has already put in the idea into many a totally different view of mercy and Excommunication, the facts speak for itself when you simply do research, the majority against this is Mainstream Christendom and those who adhere to their influence.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I would like to know who or what imposes such a “commandment” on people who are not believers? 

In Matthew 16, the keys were entrusted to the followers of Christ, and from there, the actions in regards to the church. Excommunication took on different forms centuries later, and in present day, Mainstream Christianity sees the old ways of Excommunication as a problem, and those who follow any of what was originally present.

In that passage we can see that Jesus is solemnly entrusting the Church with the power to bind and loosen, and this is closely tied with the Church’s ability to excommunicate unrepentant sinners. And it’s more than just an ability. Jesus actually instructs it as the appropriate course of action to be taken in the case of certain unrepentant sinners. They are be ostracized, in the way that the Jews of the time treated Gentiles and tax collectors, therefore, the action of Expelling, is enacted, a cut away from the Church. There are also examples of Excommunication of this level in the Greek New Testament.

It can also be noted that Expelling, hence Shunning Command is further noted/connected to passages like 1 Corinthians 5:11–13 and Matthew 18:15–17 (and ref.), suggest shunning command as an internal practice of early Christians and are cited as such by  practitioners within Christianity today outside of the Mainstream. It is rare for a Mainstreamer to use it, however, there are cases, as of recent, a Pastor complaining publicly (claiming) about immoral blaspheming Witches in his Church.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Also, do such “infidels” you mention bear any consequences if they don’t want to apply the “shunning command” to their loved ones or to some other people around them?

I do not use the term "Infidels". I am not a Mainstream Christian, therefore, I do not go around the notation of Excommunication.

Within Christianity, there tend to be three major views of the place of Excommunication:

1. We shouldn’t excommunicate anyone, because it’s not merciful.
2. We should excommunicate, because we want to purify the Church of the damned.
3. We should excommunicate, because it’s merciful to sinners.

It is evident as to which one is used and by whom. It can be noted possibly the worse form of Excommunication is Herem, is the highest ecclesiastical censure, perhaps even beyond the shunning command itself, Biblically speaking.

All forms of Excommunication and or Expelling is a practice outside of religion, also, you were already told this in the past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
8 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

This isn't new, it was talked about before, and the notation of Excommunication existed from the 1st century church and onward. It is related to the binding and loosening of the church itself.

The only reason why many, even EXJWs see it as outlandish is because Mainstream Christendom has already put in the idea into many a totally different view of mercy and Excommunication, the facts speak for itself when you simply do research, the majority against this is Mainstream Christendom and those who adhere to their influence.

In Matthew 16, the keys were entrusted to the followers of Christ, and from there, the actions in regards to the church. Excommunication took on different forms centuries later, and in present day, Mainstream Christianity sees the old ways of Excommunication as a problem, and those who follow any of what was originally present.

In that passage we can see that Jesus is solemnly entrusting the Church with the power to bind and loosen, and this is closely tied with the Church’s ability to excommunicate unrepentant sinners. And it’s more than just an ability. Jesus actually instructs it as the appropriate course of action to be taken in the case of certain unrepentant sinners. They are be ostracized, in the way that the Jews of the time treated Gentiles and tax collectors, therefore, the action of Expelling, is enacted, a cut away from the Church. There are also examples of Excommunication of this level in the Greek New Testament.

It can also be noted that Expelling, hence Shunning Command is further noted/connected to passages like 1 Corinthians 5:11–13 and Matthew 18:15–17, suggest shunning command as an internal practice of early Christians and are cited as such by  practitioners within Christianity today outside of the Mainstream. It is rare for a Mainstreamer to use it, however, there are cases, as of recent, a Pastor complaining publicly about immoral blaspheming Witches in his Church.

I do not use the term "Infidels". I am not a Mainstream Christian, therefore, I do not go around the notation of Excommunication.

Within Christianity, there tend to be three major views of the place of Excommunication:

1. We shouldn’t excommunicate anyone, because it’s not merciful.
2. We should excommunicate, because we want to purify the Church of the damned.
3. We should excommunicate, because it’s merciful to sinners.

It is evident as to which one is used and by whom. It can be noted possibly the worse form of Excommunication is Herem, is the highest ecclesiastical censure, perhaps even beyond the shunning command itself, Biblically speaking.

All forms of Excommunication and or Expelling is a practice outside of religion, also, you were already told this in the past.

Your very long respond didn't answer simple question i nicely ask you to answer! 

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Well this is true, even outside of any faith community

What does it mean when you put statement; "outside of any faith community"? 

Outside of JW and every religious group? If so, why you put explanation that is religiously shaped?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Your very long respond didn't answer simple question i nicely ask you to answer! 

It wasn't that long, it was half a page. I did answer for it is in that response.

12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What does it mean when you put statement; "outside of any faith community"? 

It means that people who are not even religious can ostracized someone and or something from a home, household, family, group, community, institution, etc. Example, Billy caused several school fights even after suspension and pranked several teachers, put a glue on the Principal's chair, thus ruining his suit, therefore, Billy is Expelled permanently from school and his record is effected. The school is no longer in contact with Billy due to Billy's actions, Billy cannot graduate from said school, and due to the chances he was given, no option for an appeal, hence he is essentially ostracized, even shunned by the institution, should be attempt to come back, the school can call the police on Billy.

Mind you this is a minor example of a form what is stated in the latter.

12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Outside of JW and every religious group?

Although JWs and most Christian practice Excommunication, a level of this is in practice outside of all Abrahamic Faiths. This was already mentioned.

12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If so, why you put explanation that is religiously shaped?

I explained it in regards to Christianity as is outside of The Abrahamic Faiths as is mentioned the most serious one of them all.

That being said there is indeed a level of ostracization and shunning in practice, even in various communities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Well this is true, even outside of any faith community the Shunning Command is a practice in society, even outside of such addictions, i.e. a person committed an act that effects the family, therefore, the person is excommunicated, so to speak, from the family, and is shunned to others, limited contact if the minor action results in the latter being repentant for their action.

Of course. There are many other reasons why society feels it's necessary to shun others. However, I wanted to keep my example short with those two. But, thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Definitely should try the Bond roll here when you get a chance: this is a mom and pop place that does a great job  
    • An interesting concept, bible discipline. I am struck by the prevalence of ignorance about spiritual discipline on "Reddit." While physical and mental disciplines receive attention, the profound impact of spiritual discipline on a person's physical and mental well-being is often overlooked. Is it possible to argue against the words of the Apostle Paul? When he penned those words in Hebrews 12, he was recognizing that there are moments when an individual must be "rebuked" in order to be corrected. Even Jesus himself established a precedent when he rebuked Peter and referred to him as Satan for failing to comprehend what Jesus had already revealed to the apostles. Did that imply that Jesus had an evil heart? Not at all, it was quite the opposite; Jesus had a loving heart. His need to correct Peter actually showcased his genuine love for him. If he hadn't cared, he would have let Peter persist in his mistaken ways, leading to a fate similar to Judas'. There is a clear emphasis on avoiding the apostate translation and its meaning, yet many seem to overlook the biblical foundation for the reasons NOT to follow the path of the fallen brethren or those with an apostate mentality. Those individuals have embraced the path of darkness, where the illuminating power of light cannot penetrate, to avoid receiving the righteous discipline based on God's Bible teachings. They are undoubtedly aware that this undeniable truth of life must be disregarded in order to uphold their baseless justifications for the unjust act of shunning. Can anyone truly "force" someone or stop them from rejecting a friend or family member? Such a notion would be absurd, considering the fact that we all have the power of free will. If a Witness decides to distance themselves from a family member or friend simply because they have come out as gay, who is anyone within the organization to question or challenge that personal sentiment? It is unfortunate that there are individuals, both within and outside the organization, who not only lack a proper understanding of the Bible but also dare to suggest that God's discipline is barbaric. We must remember that personal choices should be respected, and it is not for others to judge or condemn someone based on their sexual orientation but should be avoided under biblical grounds. No one should have the power to compel an individual to change their sexual orientation, nor should anyone be forced to accept someone for who they are. When it comes to a family's desire to shield their children from external influences, who has the right to challenge the parents' decision? And if a family's rejection of others is based on cultural factors rather than religious beliefs, who can impose religious judgment on them? Who should true followers of Christ follow? The words of God or those who believe they can change God's laws to fit their lives? How can we apply the inspired words of Paul from God to embrace the reality of God's discipline? On the contrary, how can nonconformists expect to persuade those with a "worldview" that their religious beliefs are unacceptable by ostracizing individuals, when God condemns homosexuality? This is precisely why the arguments put forth by ex-witnesses are lacking in their pursuit of justice. When they employ misguided tactics, justice remains elusive as their arguments are either weak or inconsistent with biblical standards. Therefore, it is crucial to also comprehend Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9:27. The use of the word "shun" is being exaggerated and excessively condemned by those who reject biblical shunning as a form of punishment. Eph 5:3-14 NIV 3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person — such a man is an idolater — has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.  8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible. The impact of the message becomes significantly stronger when we emphasize the importance of avoiding any association with unrighteousness and those who remain unrepentant. In fact, it becomes even more compelling when we witness how some individuals, who dismiss biblical shunning as a method of discipline, excessively criticize and condemn the use of the word "shun". Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses do not shun people; instead, they choose to focus on the negative actions being committed, which is in accordance with biblical teachings. This should be construed as ex-Witness rhetoric. Now, let's consider why ex-Witnesses specifically target one particular religion. What justifications do they provide when other Christian denominations also adhere to the same principle grounded in the Bible? Chapter 1 - Preface Both must therefore test themselves: the one, if he is qualified to speak and leave behind him written records; the other, if he is in a right state to hear and read: as also some in the dispensation of the Eucharist, according to  custom enjoin that each one of the people individually should take his part. One's own conscience is best for choosing accurately or shunning. And its firm foundation is a right life, with suitable instruction. But the imitation of those who have already been proved, and who have led correct lives, is most excellent for the understanding and practice of the commandments. "So that whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup."  It therefore follows, that every one of those who undertake to promote the good of their neighbours, ought to consider whether he has betaken himself to teaching rashly and out of rivalry to any; if his communication of the word is out of vainglory; if the the only reward he reaps is the salvation of those who hear, and if he speaks not in order to win favour: if so, he who speaks by writings escapes the reproach of mercenary motives. "For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know," says the apostle, "nor a cloak of covetousness. God is witness. Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome as the apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children."   (from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 2) Divine promises 2. The manner of shunning, in the word escaping. There is a flying away required, and that quickly, as in the plague, or from a fire which hath almost burned us, or a flood that breaketh in upon us. We cannot soon enough escape from sin (Matt 3:7; Heb 6:18). No motion but flight becomes us in this case. Doctrine: That the great end and effect of the promises of the gospel is to make us partakers of the Divine nature. (from The Biblical Illustrator)  
    • Clearly, they are already demanding your exile. Yes! It's unfortunate that Pudgy spoiled a great discussion about science. I hope the discussion can continue without any more nonsensical interruptions. Just a suggestion since they are on your heels. Wow! You speak! It seems you have a lot to say! Now they are going to treat like, who do you think you are, mister big stuff! Are those aliens now going to imply that anyone who speaks out against the five or six key contributors to this site will be treated as though it is George just because those in opposition speak the language they hate to hear, the TRUTH? They are seeking individuals who will embrace their nonconformist values and appreciate what they can offer in shaping public opinion contrary to the established agenda of God and Christ. Their goal is to enhance their writing abilities and avoid squandering time on frivolous pursuits, mainly arguing about the truth they don't care for. They see it all as a mere game, even when leading people astray. They believe they have every right to and will face no biblical repercussions, or so they believe. They just want to have fun just like that Cyndi Lauper song. Be prepared to be belittled and ridiculed, all the while they claim to be angels. Haha! By the way, please refrain from using the same language as George. They appear to believe that when others use the same words, it means they are the same person, and they emphasize this as if no one else is allowed to use similar grammar. It seems they think only they have the right to use the same or similar writing styles. Quite amusing, isn't it? See, what I just placed in bold, now I'm George, lol! Now, let's leave this nice science thread for people that want to know more about science. I believe George left it at "Zero Distance."  
  • Members

  • Recent Status Updates

    • lauleb  »  misette

      merci pour ton travail très utile. tu es une aide qui fortifie
      · 0 replies
    • Pamela Dunston  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hi, TB
      I would like to get the weekly meeting and watchtower materials  and the 2024 convention 
      Attend the 2024 Convention—“Declare the Good News!”
      notebook, I just recently got a new computer, If don't mind my brother to add me on and allow me access to our study again.
       
      Thank you, so much
      Sister Dunston
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24  »  DARLENE2022

      Hello, Darlene, I just love your name, I had a cousin named Darline, and had a classmate also named Darlene! It's a pleasure to know another Darlene! Especially a Spiritual Sister! There's some websites, Ministry Ideaz , JW Stuff.com, and Etsy that I use to order my yearly buttons for the Conventions! They always send me what I order, and their also Jehovah's Witnesses, that send us the merchandise we order!  You can check out these websites, and they might have what your looking for! I hope I have been helpful in assisting you, Darlene! Agape love, Shirley!😀
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24

      2024"Enter Into God's Rest" Circuit Assembly! 
      · 0 replies
    • Janice Lewis  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hello Twyla, when will the weekly study material be available. I am a member.
      Janice Lewis     lewisjanice84@gmail.com
      Thank you
      · 1 reply
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      159.9k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,693
    • Most Online
      1,797

    Newest Member
    Gardeniableu
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.