Watchtower and "Lobbying" related to the doctrine of "Christian Neutrality"

[Pudgy]

… And just for the record, I really don’t care what anyone believes or does on this forum. 

… but if you are going to have and hold, and argue for a position, at least base it on checkable hard facts … and when someone else takes the opposite view, always demand from them the same .

Otherwise it’s all about arguing about whether a transformer car can morph itself into a robot, and is it male or female.

[Pudgy]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

… FWIW: I was in service recently. My companion made a return visit on a young man, 20s I would say, who said he was atheist. She read 2 Timothy 3:1-5. He did not know of the verses and emphatically agreed they were especially applicable now (somewhat to my surprise—I figured he would pull a dismissive Pudgy).

I am, FWIW, proud of you TTH, for qualifying the above quote with FWIW.

It is with that caveat a rational, reasonable response that I would still dismiss as only the opinion of a random 20 year old male atheist who was agreeable because a nice pleasant guy and gal wanted to talk to him.

Sharp!

 

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, Fausto Hoover said:

It is amusing that you bring up rebuttals as if they hold significance, considering your lack thereof. The best era of all was when Jesus walked on this earth, unlike our present time, where we witness the alarming decline of humanity unfolding right in front of us. Neither should the blind lead the blind, nor are they capable of doing so.

²⁶ Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah,u so it will be in the days of the Son of man:v ²⁷  they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage until that day when Noah entered into the ark,w and the Flood came and destroyed them all.x ²⁸  Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot:y they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. ²⁹  But on the day that Lot went out of Sodʹom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all.z ³⁰  It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed.a- Luke 17:26-30

 https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/luke/17/

 

From these words of Jesus, it is not at all apparent that the actions of the people of past time will differ from the actions of the people during Jesus' rediscovery, aka arrival on the world scene.
There is no indication of differences in the amount and intensity of described human activity through history. 

An increase or decrease in humanity and/or wickedness is not the criterion to be considered as the (only)  one preceding the prophesied change.

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

12 hours ago, Fausto Hoover said:

Do they truly comprehend the distinction between lobbying and open communication, as mentioned in a previous post?

Lobbying and Open Communication are not synonymous terms.

Are you suggesting that WTJWorg representatives have and want Open Communication with the Political System? In other words, the talks between WTJWorg and political elements are not within the scope of lobbying, but are mutual efforts to better understand the two sides and achieve mutually beneficial agreements and/or compromises?

If Open Communication is a desirable feature between WTJWorg and Politics, then it should be applied to Other Religions that have different and similar doctrines, too. However, WTJWorg firmly rejects interfaith activity and communication with them. 

However, WTJWorg has excursions into interreligious activity when it comes to some religious freedoms, so they sit together at the same table with priests of other religions. (OSCE)

Since Politics and Religion are actually part of the same Pot that is in the "hands of Satan", according to JW doctrine, then what you, as JW member, defend is indefensible.

[Pudgy]

16 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Your only, repeat ONLY rational response,  is a point by point rebuttal of the Watchtower Society’s own documentation of hard fact historic events, as shown in the video.

OooOOooo … but that would be WORK, wouldn’t it? 

 

[Pudgy]

I would just like to say, almost as an aside, that as a minor point that you can take to heart …. the screenshots I posted,  I posted without any commentary whatsoever, and it was screenshots of the Watchtower Bible and Track Society’s own publications.

What could be more straightfoward and honest?

I ASKED YOU TO EXPLAIN WHY IT WAS NOT POLITICAL LOBBYING … and you choked and replied with the usual foggy bottom agenda driven drivel.

Heck, I did not even supply HALF the hard unimpeachable direct exact unmodified quotes available.

….. let me make my position clear ….. it is my personal opinion that all interaction with human beings is political, and nobody can avoid being in politics.

When the Society uses lawyers, they are lobbyists for the Society. 

That is why they are also called “Counselors”, or “Advocates”.

I have no problem with that.

 I do not think that the Society has done anything wrong by negotiating for a better deal, and is and has been trying to make the best way they can under difficult circumstances.

What I object to, and the ONLY thing I object to, is deliberately lying that IT DID NOT HAPPEN.

Hard evidence says it did!

It’s a short road, and a slippery slope to drowning in manufactured fantasy.

 

[Pudgy]

Except for those whose lack of a sense of humor is a stain on the soul of humanity, politics can even be funny!

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, Fausto Hoover said:

All that valuable research goes to waste when it is explained with Watchtower literature that is appropriately utilized.

*** w57 5/1 pp. 277-278 par. 13 Show Respect for Jehovah’s Organization***
13 Then there are some few who assume authority or endeavor to “direct” the organization. Some are very subtle in their schemes, seeking to influence the congregation’s service committee by working up a sort of “congregation opinion.” This they do by private little campaigns, advancing personal opinion until others become infected, and occasionally much difficulty is raised over trivial matters. Attempting to pressure those in responsible positions or attempting to advance personal interests or opinions is a political form of “lobbying,” which has no place among New-World-thinking servants of God. (Rom. 16:17, 18)
 

This article shows the position of the JW Corporation that "lobbying" within JW congregations is impermissible. And only that. Nothing says that such action is forbidden in relation to the "outside world".

This is the same as the method used in "theocratic warfare". Every JW is obliged to tell the complete truth and not withhold anything when talking to the elders. But he is permitted to speak untruths or half-truths or withholding the truth from those "who are not authorized to hear it."
That's why you have JW elders and JW lawyers who appear before the Courts and actually manipulate the information given, that is, they lie.

[Srecko Sostar]

18 hours ago, Fausto Hoover said:

In a logical society, the opinions of irrational thinkers hold no weight, as they only serve to squander time and energy for misguided reasons.

Unfortunately for many JWs who deeply believe in WTJWorg doctrines and instructions, we have to ask, is the WT Society really a Logical Society? With the passage of time, the GB leaders deny with their own statements the possibility that such an assessment is correct. I'm sorry.

 

[Pudgy]

 

Yeah … I remember when the Super Duper Top Secret “Shepherding the Flock of God” Elders Manual first came out. I had a copy before my local Elders had theirs. Rank and File Brothers could not have a copy, or even read it, and if they helped an Elder by making a copy, they had to be watched so they did NOT read any of it. It was not to left out so a Sister could see it.

Meanwhile copies were given by the Society to the Finland Minister of Health, and the Minister of Education.

Both women.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

17 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Lobbying, Advocacy, Open Communication

First source:

https://research2policy.org/advocacyvlobbying/

LOBBYING RULES FOR NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS

Many researchers’ workplaces and affiliations are likely nonprofits and, more specifically, nonprofits categorized as 501(c)(3)s (e.g., public colleges or universities, research institutes). As such, it is important that researchers are aware of the lobbying rules for nonprofit organizations. Nonprofits classified as 501(c)(3)s public charities must not use “substantial” resources for lobbying, though it is not prohibited outright. These organizations have the right to lobby for issues they believe in or against issues they do not. It is only when this advocacy deals with specific legislation that calculated cost limits apply. If the rule that “no substantial part” of activities be dedicated to lobbying seems too vague, consider an “h election” to allow your organization to precisely report the amount of money spent on direct or grassroots lobbying. Researchers should consult with their organizational leadership about lobbying definitions, allowable activities, and how their paid time may be used when communicating recommendations to legislators.

Next source:

https://www.churchlawcenter.com/political/what-is-the-difference-between-lobbying-campaigning-and-advocacy-why-does-it-matter-for-charities/

Nonprofit organizations with 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status under the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) are subject to specific restrictions on their political activities. Violating these rules can lead to loss of tax-exempt status, so all nonprofits need to be aware of these restrictions to avoid any potential problems.

Lobbying Restrictions

IRS regulations generally prohibit charities with tax-exempt status from engaging in lobbying except to an “insubstantial degree.” Historically, if a charity spends more than about five percent of its budget, time, and effort on lobbying, it may be considered “substantial” and thus violate IRS regulations, although there is no regulation that defines “substantial” with precision.

The other alternative for charities under IRS statutes is to use the 501(h) expenditure test under Section 501(h) of the IRC. Under the formula defined in 501(h), a charity’s lobbying activities are subject to specific dollar limits with an overall cap of $1 million. However, any lobbying activities by volunteers on behalf of the charity do not count toward those limits.

 

WTJWorg is full of volunteers, isn't it? They are actually all volunteers.

 

https://www.runn.io/blog/open-communication

 

What is open communication?

Open communication is the ability to express your thoughts freely while interacting with other people. In a workplace, it refers to the ability of employees to share and receive feedback, provide ideas and suggestions, and raise concerns, which makes them active participants in the work process. 

Open communication is about honesty, availability, and transparency. It means that you have to tell the truth as it is and be willing to hear it in return. It also means you have access to the information you need, and you have to provide the information to those who need it, too. Finally, it means nothing can be kept secret – so there is no chance for politicking or intrigues.   

Open communication is based on the following principles:

1. Trust. When you know you will hear an honest opinion, you do not expect a get knife in your back. You can rely on your colleagues. You can ask for help. This highly reduces the risk of workplace conflict, and lays the foundations for healthy work relationships.   
2. Psychological safety. It is the ability to express your thoughts without fear of judgment or rejection. A workplace is psychologically safe when employees can openly raise up sensitive issues and be sure that they will not be scolded or fired for challenging someone else’s authority. 
3. Consistency. For communication to be truly open, it has to be open on a regular basis. This is why it’s important to establish specific open communication policies that would normalize this phenomenon in the workplace. The role of the leader is crucial here – leaders set an example for the whole team and motivate people to act in the same way. 

 

When WTJWorg destroys important documents and refuses to hand over documents to the courts that request it, can we talk about open communication?

Or when GB publishes manuals for elders that no other member of JW society is allowed to see?

[Srecko Sostar]

On 9/26/2023 at 2:21 AM, Errikos Tsiamis said:

Therefore, while the use of the words "lobbyist" and "politics" may not be relevant to the Watchtower's mission, the significance of the organization lies in its dedication to spreading the message of God's love and promoting religious freedom to governments listening to apostates to silence the Watchtower and Christ's work as it was done in the first century.

.., significance of the organization lies in its dedication to spreading the message of God's love and promoting religious freedom to governments..,

Maybe my memory is not serving me well, but I can't remember any Bible text that writes about how Jesus, as the Pillar and Model of the Perfect Preacher and Proclaimer of the Gospel, promoted religious freedom to the political elites in the 1st century?