Resurrection during the thousand year reign?

[Shiwiii]

Can someone point me to the scriptures used by the society that state there is a resurrection during  the thousand year reign. 

[Glenn Leider]

(Revelation 20:1-7) "And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.

7 Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison."

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The key to understanding when the earthly resurrection takes place is in the clause "(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.)" at the start of verse 5. Since verse 4 states that the ones with "thrones... came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years," these ones who "came to life" means they were resurrected as perfect beings.

It would do no good for them to have NOTHING over which to rule as kings, it would have to be over the "great crowd... who come out of the great tribulation" (Revelation 7:9,13,14), as well as those not of "the first resurrection" of heavenly ones, but of the general resurrection. That all of these could be called "the rest of the dead" harmonizes with Ephesians 2:1: "Furthermore, God made you alive, though your were dead in your trespasses and sins." At the end of the 1,000 years, these achieve perfection, being completely free from sin, and so "come to life" at this point.

The foregoing shows that the general resurrection would have to take place during the 1,000 years, for those resurrected to "come to life" at the end of the 1,000 years.

[Ann O'Maly]

So basically, Glenn, it looks like you are arguing that the phrase 'came to life' has a different meaning depending on the group. 

One group is resurrected to perfection.

The other group is resurrected to imperfection ... until they've 'achieved' sin-free perfection at the end of the 1000 years.

Where is the scriptural evidence that one group has to 'achieve' perfection during the 1000 years?

If one group is resurrected perfect, why can it not be that the other group is resurrected perfect but at the end of the 1000 years, in harmony with the timing contained in v. 5's parenthesis? 

 

[Shiwiii]

20 hours ago, Glenn Leider said:

The key to understanding when the earthly resurrection takes place is in the clause "(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.)" at the start of verse 5. Since verse 4 states that the ones with "thrones... came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years," these ones who "came to life" means they were resurrected as perfect beings.

While I agree that this portion is key to understanding the whole, you seem to be omitting the fact that the rest of the dead did not come back to life until AFTER the 1000 years have ended. No matter what we think about what or whom will be ruled during the 1000 years, scripture still states that the second resurrection does not occur until after the 1000 years have ended. 

 

20 hours ago, Glenn Leider said:

The foregoing shows that the general resurrection would have to take place during the 1,000 years, for those resurrected to "come to life" at the end of the 1,000 years.

but you have not provided scripture that states or supports a resurrection during the thousand years, it is only a guess in your presentation of the idea. I want to know what scriptures are used to support the societies idea of a resurrection during the thousand years which is in direct opposition to Rev 20:5. 

[Melinda Mills]

Those in the general resurrection as well as Armageddon survivors who are obedient during the 1000 years will come to life toward the end of the thousand years as the priestly services of Jesus and the 144,000 priest-kings will be applied to them.  They will be gradually healed of their imperfection or restored to the perfection the human race had before Adam sinned (rehabilitation).  It doesn't mean they are now being resurrected (out of the grave)  at the end of the 1000-year reign. It means they have been rehabilitated for that period through the priestly services of the King and his associates and they have now reached the state of perfection.  Just as Adam faced the test in the garden of Eden as a perfect person,  they will now face the final test and Satan will be let out of the abyss to do so. Those who submit to Jehovah's sovereignty, unlike Adam, will be granted eternal life.  See excerpt below.

*** re chap. 40 p. 290 Crushing the Serpent’s Head ***The Rest of the Dead

^{14 Whom, though, will these kings judge if, as the apostle John here inserts, “(the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended)”? (Revelation 20:5a) Again, the expression “come to life” has to be understood according to context. This expression can have varying meanings in varying circumstances. For example, Paul said of his anointed fellow Christians: “It is you God made alive though you were dead in your trespasses and sins.” (Ephesians 2:1) Yes, spirit-anointed Christians were “made alive,” even in the first century, being declared righteous on the basis of their faith in Jesus’ sacrifice.—Romans 3:23, 24.}

^{15 Similarly, pre-Christian witnesses of Jehovah were declared righteous as to friendship with God; and Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were spoken of as “living” even though they were physically dead. (Matthew 22:31, 32; James 2:21, 23) However, they and all others who are resurrected, as well as the great crowd of faithful other sheep who survive Armageddon and any children that may be born to these in the new world, must yet be raised to human perfection. This will be accomplished by Christ and his associate kings and priests during the thousand-year Judgment Day, on the basis of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. By the end of that Day, “the rest of the dead” will have “come to life” in the sense that they will be perfect humans. As we shall see, they must then pass a final test, but they will face that test as perfected humans. When they pass the test, God will declare them worthy of living forever, righteous in the fullest sense. They will experience the complete fulfillment of the promise: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” (Psalm 37:29) What a delightful future is in store for obedient mankind!}

[Shiwiii]

12 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

It doesn't mean they are now being resurrected (out of the grave)  at the end of the 1000-year reign.

Rev 20:13 says otherwise. 

 

12 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Again, the expression “come to life” has to be understood according to context.

from the context in verse 4, it is that of coming back to life from being dead, and the context doesn't change into verse 5. 

[Melinda Mills]

Quote

Heavenly resurrection

Those of the first resurrection who have the heavenly calling will be resurrected perfect. They will no longer be subject to death.

(Romans 5:5)  Therefore, now that we have been declared righteous as a result of faith, let us enjoy peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, ..

(Romans 5:18) ¹⁸ So, then, as through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, so too through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is their being declared righteous for life.

 

(Romans 8:1)  Therefore, those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation.

 (1 Cor 15:53,54) 53 For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. ⁵⁴ But when this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: “Death is swallowed up forever.”

(Revelation 20:6) Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.

(Revelation 14:13) And I heard a voice out of heaven say, “Write: Happy are the dead who die in union with the Lord from this time onward. Yes, says the spirit, let them rest from their labors, for the things they did go right with them.”

Earthly Resurrection

In the earthly resurrection, those  coming back will be righteous as well as unrighteous people.

(John 5:28, 29) Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice ²⁹ and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

They will not be made perfect apart from the 144,000, but through them (their healing services).

Faithful ones of old were declared righteous by their faith but in order to be perfect they need the priestly services of Jesus and the 144,000 after their resurrection.

Hebrews 11:39 And yet all of these, although they received a favorable witness because of their faith, did not obtain the fulfillment of the promise, ⁴⁰ because God had foreseen something better for us, so that they might not be made perfect apart from us.

(Revelation 22:1-2) And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb ² down the middle of its main street. On both sides of the river were trees of life producing 12 crops of fruit, yielding their fruit each month. And the leaves of the trees were for the healing of the nations.

*** w12 1/15 p. 30 pars. 15-16 A Royal Priesthood to Benefit All Mankind ***

15 What benefits will the 144,000 bring to those on earth? Revelation chapter 21 portrays them as a heavenly city, New Jerusalem, called “the Lamb’s wife.” (Rev. 21:9) Verses 2 to 4 state: “I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: ‘Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.’” What wonderful blessings! The elimination of death will remove the principal cause of tears, mourning, outcry, and pain. It will mean lifting faithful humans to perfection, completely reconciling them to God.

16 Further describing the blessings this royal priesthood will bring, Revelation 22:1, 2 states: “He showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of [New Jerusalem’s] broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side there were trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees were for the curing of the nations.” With these symbolic provisions, “the nations,” or family groups of mankind, will be completely cured of the imperfection inherited from Adam. Truly, ‘the former things will have passed away.’

 

 

 

 

[John Houston]

Shiwiii, how do you understand Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 15:23-28? There Paul spoke of those being brought back during "his presence". When he hands over the kingdom back to Jehovah at the end of the 1000 yrs, then all would be perfect, death will be swallowed up. All will have been raised from the grave. So how is it the way you reason does not jibe with what Paul is saying here in scripture? We all know that during Christ reign HIS VOICE, will call those from the grave, not his Father's correct? That is what John wrote at John 5:28,29. Jehovah gave his Son, this authority during this time with his corulers, to right things and after things in heaven and on earth is perfect as it was in the beginning, Jesus hands it back to Jehovah all in perfect condition. Humans  perfect, the earth globally perfect, heaven perfect. Now Satan is loosed one final time on us on earth. That is what scripture teaches. That is what you read from scripture, correct? The Bible is united in thought on this matter.

[Shiwiii]

 

1 hour ago, John Houston said:

Shiwiii, how do you understand Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 15:23-28? There Paul spoke of those being brought back during "his presence". When he hands over the kingdom back to Jehovah at the end of the 1000 yrs, then all would be perfect, death will be swallowed up. All will have been raised from the grave. So how is it the way you reason does not jibe with what Paul is saying here in scripture?

Glad you asked John. I don't understand your question of my reasoning not jiving with what Paul said. I am only using scripture.

1 Cor 15:23-28 is a description of the order of resurrection. First Christ, then those who belong to Christ. that part I think we agree on. The first resurrection. There is no mention of the second resurrection in 1 Cor 15:23-28. Where I think we differ is the establishment of "the end" in verse 24. This part is after the 1000 years, and after the release of Satan to again mislead, after everything. Notice though in verse 25, where scripture tells us that Jesus must reign until the last enemy is defeated (death). Where in Revelation does it talk about death being done away with? Rev 20:14 which comes directly after the second resurrection in verses 12&13. The account in 1 Cor is a brief synopsis of what is going to happen. We know that this is not written in chronological order because of what Revelation 20 says. It is telling us what order those who are resurrected will be, not when the events take place. This set of scriptures parallel those in 1 Thess 4:15&16. Again, there is no mention of a second resurrection in these set of scriptures either. 

2 hours ago, John Houston said:

We all know that during Christ reign HIS VOICE, will call those from the grave, not his Father's correct?

No and yes. Yes it will be Jesus voice. I say no because you are eluding to this happening during Jesus reign, it is not. 1 Thess 4:16 tells us that Jesus voice will raise those who died in Him, then those who are still alive, who are in Christ, will join those who were resurrected. We know that these ones are righteous because they are in Christ, so according to Rev 20:4&5 this has to be the first resurrection and they are those who will reign with Jesus. This happens at the return of Jesus as stated in 1 Thess 4:15. This allows for the co-rulers to actually rule for a full 1000 years. If it were just a few here and a few after 10 years and a few 400 years into the 1000 year reign, then there would be co-rulers who did not reign for the full 1000 years and scripture doesn't state "rule and reign for 600+ years of the 1000 year reign".

2 hours ago, John Houston said:

That is what John wrote at John 5:28,29.

yes, it is Jesus voice. John 5:28&29 supports Rev 20:12-15 as the 2nd resurrection. Daniel 12:2 also supports this account in John and Revelation. 

 

2 hours ago, John Houston said:

Jehovah gave his Son, this authority during this time with his corulers, to right things and after things in heaven and on earth is perfect as it was in the beginning, Jesus hands it back to Jehovah all in perfect condition. Humans  perfect, the earth globally perfect, heaven perfect.

I'm with you up to this point. 

 

2 hours ago, John Houston said:

Now Satan is loosed one final time on us on earth. That is what scripture teaches. That is what you read from scripture, correct? The Bible is united in thought on this matter.

Here is where I disagree, When everything is perfect is after Satan has been destroyed. Revelation 21 speaks of a new Heaven and a new Earth, thus made perfect. This can only happen after Satan has been defeated, or else it wouldn't be perfect. Revelation chapter 20 tells us nothing about everything being perfect, only that Jesus will rule and reign for 1000 years. There is nothing in scripture that speaks of this 1000 years of being made perfect, nor of a resurrection during the 1000 year reign. It is after the 1000 years that Satan, the beast, the false prophet and death and Hades are destroyed, then and only then can everything be perfect. 

[Shiwiii]

3 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

 

I really wish you would put YOUR thoughts down, instead of cut and pasting from some other source. 

[John Houston]

Shiwii, yet verse 28, of Paul's word state that when Jesus finished his reign, he will subject himself back to his Father, as he was in the beginning as it was before Adam sinned. That is what his reign will right. Jehovah will again be all things to everyone, we will all be united again in perfection. Standing as Adam was. Without satanic influence or sin. Then when he is release all mankind will have the opportunity as did Adam and Eve as perfect humans to make that choice to either stand with Jehovah or again side with Satan. And as scripture says some will fall again to sin. But none will have someone else to blame. And all will be destroyed along with Satan and his demons. Evil being destroyed forever! The meek possessing the earth. 

During those 1000 yrs. mankind fallen in death will be able to be healed; also the earth. Having heaven rid of satanic influence with Satan thrown from heaven, earth will be cleansed also. Sin and imperfection will be removed from earth. As the Lord's Prayer state, God's will being done on earth as it is in heaven. The dead in Jehovah's memory from Abel until the last one died, will be raised to life, under conditions they have never seen! Physically restored to perfection during Christ reign, taking advantage of the blood of his sacrifice. Fulfilling Isaiah words about him being Eternal Father, Prince of Peace, Mighty God, Wonderful Counselor. Jesus will wear all these caps during his reign. As after that time he will take his position he held at the beginning, as the Word of God, subjecting himself under his Father as he was before. Jehovah being One to all, just as Paul wrote. 

Your beliefs are not based on scripture, all scripture, you have cherry-picked what you want to believe. You have that right. Paul reasoned with ones when he spoke, your statements make no sense. After the 1000 yrs., then the rest of the dead are brought back to life? When then is Satan released? When are we tested finally? When is Satan destroyed? Jehovah is not a God of disorder, right? So there will be order as the Bible reads throughout. He has not changed, correct? My parents will enjoy the 1000 yrs reign, hopefully with me, for I am trying my best to survive through the tribulation. And when the time comes a joyous time this earth will have. And after Satan and those who followed after him are destroyed, this again will be a joyous time. For we will have shown Jehovah God we want to be ruled by him. And what he wanted to show us, before sin happened we will be blown away. The things we will learn. Keep reading your Bible. Agape!

[Shiwiii]

Shiwii, yet verse 28, of Paul's word state that when Jesus finished his reign, he will subject himself back to his Father, as he was in the beginning as it was before Adam sinned. - John

 

You are reading into the verse something that is just not there.

1 Cor 15:28 "when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to Him who put all things in subjection under Him, that God may be all in all."

Ask yourself what are the "all things", how can all things be subjected if death, hades and Satan are not yet abolished in your version? Those would be things that are not in subjection,  thus this would not fit this scripture. 

During those 1000 yrs. mankind fallen in death will be able to be healed; also the earth. -John

Again, you do not provide scripture to support this claim.

Your beliefs are not based on scripture, all scripture, you have cherry-picked what you want to believe. - John

All one has to do is read my post and see that scripture supports what I'm saying,  because scripture is used.