Resurrection during the thousand year reign?

[Queen Esther]

JEHOVAH  NEVER  KNEW  THAT  ADAM  WOULD  SIN.... !!!!

SO  HE  WAS  MAKING  THE  FAST  SCRIPTURE  1. MOSE  3..15  !!!!

NOT  MORE  TO  SAY  TO  THAT.....  ;-(

 

 

[HollyW]

5 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Adam was not imperfect and subject to sin like us.  He was perfect when God gave him that commandment. Disobedience would have been willful, not a mistake, or a case of temporary weakness.  Therefore these scriptures would have applied including the sentence of death in Genesis 2:16. That death would have been everlasting - the second death.

(Hebrews 10:26) For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left,

(James 4:17) ¹⁷ Therefore, if someone knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.

Adam (and Eve) could not be ransomed but provision was made to redeem the offspring in Adam's loins who had no say in the matter. God then set about making provision to ransom these ones when he uttered the first prophecy. (Genesis 3:15) The serpent (Satan) would be crushed in the head by the offspring or  seed, Jesus, the Messianic King, who would release mankind from sin, sickness and death(Galatians 3:16).

 

Then "Adamic death" is actually the second death, the one in the lake of fire.  Aren't you saying that's the only death God could have been referring to in regard to Adam and Eve?

 

 

[HollyW]

5 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Adam (and Eve) could not be ransomed but provision was made to redeem the offspring in Adam's loins who had no say in the matter. God then set about making provision to ransom these ones when he uttered the first prophecy. (Genesis 3:15) The serpent (Satan) would be crushed in the head by the offspring or  seed, Jesus, the Messianic King, who would release mankind from sin, sickness and death(Galatians 3:16).

Remember that it was AFTER Adam and Eve had sinned that they were covered with garments of animal skin and were promised a savior.  An animal's life was sacrificed to provide the skins for covering the shame of Adam and Eve's nakedness, perfectly picturing the Lamb of God, Christ Jesus. 

Even the WTS says God "lovingly" provided these garments of skin "rather than leave them in their shame," that He "showed consideration for the feeling of shame that the sinners Adam and his wife now felt at being naked." There's no reason not to view their feelings of shame as repentance, and the covering God provided as being a foreshadowing of their savior, Jesus, whose shed blood would cover their sin/shame.

Consider for a moment how these two people viewed the ransom in relation to Adam and Eve:

Russell [Divine Plan of the Ages, 1886, Ch.7, p.129]: Our Lord, "the man Christ Jesus," himself unblemished, approved, and with a perfect seed or race in him, unborn, likewise untainted with sin, gave his all of human life and title as the full ransom-price for Adam and the race or seed in him when sentenced. Having thus fully purchased the lives of Adam and his race, Christ offers to adopt as his seed, his children, all of Adam's race who will accept the terms of his New Covenant and thus by faith come into his family - the family of God - and receive everlasting life.

Rutherford [w30 11/1 p.331] Thus the fact that death resulted to all Adam’s children, due to his offense and disobedience, made it possible and just for God to ransom Adam and all mankind by the atoning sacrifice of “the man Christ Jesus”.

[HollyW]

5 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Those who love Jehovah and are determined to obey his will and respect his sovereignty have no morbid fear of the second death.  The obedient angels in heaven do not fear it. There are happy and are serving Jehovah for eons on eons of time and will continue to live and serve him.  The same thing with the law of the land. Because the authorities have the sword (or the means to punish us) does not make us live in fear of them.

"(Romans 13:1-4) 13 Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. ² Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves. ³ For those rulers are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you want to be free of fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; ⁴ for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear, for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword. It is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath against the one practicing what is bad."

If we love Jehovah God and do not harbor any resentment of his right to say what is right or wrong or to do what he says, we are and will be OK. Remember the angels - they do not have immortality - just everlasting life.  They are forever in excellent company and  taking delight in their service to Him.

It kind of sounds like you're saying 'So what if people die after the 1,000 years, there still won't be any tears or mourning'.  Is that how you're reconciling Revelation 21:4  he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.

And I wonder at your comparison of humans with angels since Jesus did not die for the salvation of angels, he died for us.  

Hebrews 2:14  Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, ¹⁵ and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. ¹⁶ For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham. ¹⁷ Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

 

 

[HollyW]

56 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

JEHOVAH  NEVER  KNEW  THAT  ADAM  WOULD  SIN.... !!!!

SO  HE  WAS  MAKING  THE  FAST  SCRIPTURE  1. MOSE  3..15  !!!!

NOT  MORE  TO  SAY  TO  THAT.....  ;-(

 

 

Hi QE,

Are you saying there was something the Father did not know?

[HollyW]

15 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

NOOOOO  -    ONLY  THE  FATHER  DID  KNOW  !!!!!!!!

And that doesn't disqualify the Father from being God?

[HollyW]

QE, you said " JEHOVAH  NEVER  KNEW  THAT  ADAM  WOULD  SIN.... !!!! "  

And when I asked you " Are you saying there was something the Father did not know? "  You said "YES!!!"

But now I see that you have edited that out and replaced it with " NOOOOO  -    ONLY  THE  FATHER  DID  KNOW  !!!!!!!! "

Two questions:

1. Do you disagree with the WTS on this?

2. And how were you able to edit your reply of "YES !!!" out of my post?

[Melinda Mills]

Interesting comment from Russell and Rutherford.

We no longer believe Adam was ransomed.  His children were; from Abel onwards. Cain disobeyed God's direct warning and killed his brother. Doesn't look like he was ransomed either. (Prov 4:18 shows truth revealed progressively.)

(Luke 11:49-51) . . .That is why the wisdom of God also said: ‘I will send prophets and apostles to them, and they will kill and persecute some of them, ⁵⁰ so that the blood of all the prophets spilled from the founding of the world may be charged against this generation, ⁵¹ from the blood of Abel down to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah, who was killed between the altar and the house.’ Yes, I tell you, it will be charged against this generation.

(Holly) "Then "Adamic death" is actually the second death, the one in the lake of fire.  Aren't you saying that's the only death God could have been referring to in regard to Adam and Eve?"

Adam did die the second death. That's why he was not ransomed. His children were taken into account as they did not make the decision to rebel against God; so the ransomed covered his children who were not willful sinners and who came to have an imperfect nature.  See the scriptures I quoted before. (Hebrews  10:26, etc)  "There is no sacrifice for sins left" for willful sinners as the ransom was never meant for willful sinners.

Agree Jehovah lovingly cared for Adam and Eve in clothing them. Even today he cares for people who do not love him. Jesus said to love your enemies and give them something to eat and drink. He also used God's example of being kind to those who don't serve him.  " (Matthew 5:45) so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous."

Adamic death is the "first death", see comment above. Will do more research on the term - it is not my term.

Got to go now.

[Shiwiii]

13 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

JEHOVAH  NEVER  KNEW  THAT  ADAM  WOULD  SIN.... !!!!

SO  HE  WAS  MAKING  THE  FAST  SCRIPTURE  1. MOSE  3..15  !!!!

NOT  MORE  TO  SAY  TO  THAT.....  ;-(

 

 

So you deny that God knows everything.  Interesting 

[Queen Esther]

8 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

So you deny that God knows everything.  Interesting 

Thats not true ! Strange thoughts you have....  End of discuss for me !

[Shiwiii]

28 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

Thats not true ! Strange thoughts you have....  End of discuss for me !

You're the one who said God didn't know Adam would sin. I just tried to clarify YOUR statement 

[HollyW]

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

You're the one who said God didn't know Adam would sin. I just tried to clarify YOUR statement 

Here's those "strange thoughts" from the WT Reasoning book:

 

Quote

When God created Adam, did he know that Adam would sin?

Here is what God set before Adam and Eve: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.” “And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: ‘From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.’” (Gen. 1:28; 2:16, 17) Would you encourage your children to undertake a project with a marvelous future, knowing from the start that it was doomed to failure? Would you warn them of harm, while knowing that you had planned everything so that they were sure to come to grief? Is it reasonable, then, to attribute such to God?

Matt. 7:11: “If you, although being wicked [or, “bad as you are,” NE], know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?”

If God foreordained and foreknew Adam’s sin and all that would result from this, it would mean that by creating Adam, God deliberately set in motion all the wickedness committed in human history. He would be the Source of all the wars, the crime, the immorality, the oppression, the lying, the hypocrisy, the disease. But the Bible clearly says: “You are not a God taking delight in wickedness.” (Ps. 5:4) “Anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates.” (Ps. 11:5) “God . . . cannot lie.” (Titus 1:2) “From oppression and from violence he [the One designated by God as Messianic King] will redeem their soul, and their blood will be precious in his eyes.” (Ps. 72:14) “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) “He is a lover of righteousness and justice.”—Ps. 33:5.

 

Also see the article in the 1/1/2011 wt: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011006