Witness' view of the GB

[Witness]

On 10/26/2017 at 9:08 AM, Shiwiii said:

Here in Romans 8, scripture clearly states that if you do not have the Spirit of Jesus within you, you do not belong to Him (Jesus). 

From Rom 8:9 you feel that because the “Spirit of God” and the “Spirit of Christ” are both mentioned, that this indicates two different spirits, am I right?

Notice what Paul says about the anointed gifts in the Body of Christ;

Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. ⁵ There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. ⁶ And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. ⁷ But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: ⁸ for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, ⁹ to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same^[b] Spirit, ¹⁰ to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. ¹¹ But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. 1 Cor 12:4-11

“for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you”  Matt 10:20  Jesus is speaking to the apostles who make up the foundation of the Temple of God, and where God’s Spirit would dwell.  Eph 2:20-22  Jesus is the vine, God is the “vinedresser”.  The anointed who remain in him, are the branches.  Holy Spirit flows from the Father to Christ, and to the branches.  John 15:1-4

^“ Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.  That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. 2 Tim 1:13

“Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.”  John 14:23

"If I am not doing my Father's works, don't believe me. "But if I am doing them and you don't believe me, believe the works. This way you will know and understand that the Father is in me and I in the Father."  John 10:37,38

 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; ²¹ that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. ²² And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: ²³ I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.  John 17:20-23

Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. John 17:17

“This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.” 1 John 5:6

“But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.  God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:23,24

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

When Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life”, it is through the Holy Spirit of God that is also within Christ, who is the Way to God  - and God is Truth and Life.

 “And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”  1 Cor 6:11

John answered them all, "I baptize you with water, but one who is more powerful than I am is coming. I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.  Luke 3:16

These scriptures also give us this indication.  1 Cor 6:11; John 20:22; 14:16; 3:16; Luke 3:16; Acts 1:5

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”  John 1:1

Can you see the oneness of God and Christ; in Spirit, Truth, Life, Word, as well as those who must also speak in God’s Spirit of Truth and Life?  I threw a lot of scriptures at you, but hopefully we can reach the agreement that God’s Spirit is the same spirit that is in Christ. 

On 10/26/2017 at 9:08 AM, Shiwiii said:

Where in scripture do we see any limitation? please provide scriptural support.

I believe there is a limitation to the number of “living stones” making up the Temple/Body of Christ, because of Zech 4:6-10:

So he answered and said to me:

“This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel:
‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’
Says the Lord of hosts.
⁷ ‘Who are you, O great mountain?
Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain!
And he shall bring forth the capstone
With shouts of “Grace, grace to it!”’”

 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying:

⁹ “The hands of Zerubbabel
Have laid the foundation of this temple;
His hands shall also finish it.
Then you will know
That the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you.
¹⁰ For who has despised the day of small things?
For these seven rejoice to see
The plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel.
They are the eyes of the Lord,
Which scan to and fro throughout the whole earth.”   (Rev 11:1-7)

These are prophetic words referring to the God’s Temple built on the Body of Christ.  The “capstone” is the last remnant of the 144,000 anointed priesthood to complete Mt. Zion, and who make it through the Great Tribulation.   1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:9; Eph 2:20; Heb 11:10; Rev 7:15, 2 Chron 23:6; Num 3:10; Rev 5:10

God may expand the priesthood once the Kingdom is established, for reasons we will know if that times comes. 

On 10/26/2017 at 9:08 AM, Shiwiii said:

Where is there a mention of a Spiritual Israel in the Bible? A replacement if you will. I see no spiritual Jerusalem, only earthly and heavenly. I agree that the new covenant is under the free woman and that it IS separate from the first covenant, but I see nothing that excludes those of the first covenant from salvation. 

God’s city was the literal Jerusualem, the Temple was the dwelling of God’s spirit. While the anointed are on earth, their “mother” or promise from God is “Jerusalem above”. Gal 4:26 When the faithful ones are sealed into the “heavens”, they become part of the Holy City, because they are symbolically, spiritually, “living stones” of the Temple of God.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 3:12

And they are spiritual “Israel”.  The early temple arrangement was a “copy and shadow of the heavenly one”. Only the priesthood among the Israelite nations were chosen to serve in the Temple.  No longer does one’s fleshy nationality matter.  Israel becomes a spiritual nationality under a “promise”.  Heb 8:5; Rom 9:6-9; 11:25,26; 2:28,29; 1 Pet 2:9,10; Jer 31:33; Rev 7:4

We’ve talked about this, but again, this living Temple, which is the Bride of Christ, will have its presence on earth and in heaven.  Rev 5:9,10; 21:2 Through the Holy Priesthood and Christ, God’s spirit will dwell with mankind.  Rev 21:3,4

but I see nothing that excludes those of the first covenant from salvation.   

I don't either.  There is still a resurrection of the "living".  Matt 22:29-32

On 10/26/2017 at 9:08 AM, Shiwiii said:

Temple/New Jerusalem/ Bride, yes I agree they are all the same and Galatians tell us that those in this group will outnumber those of the first group. Galatians 4:27 which is a quote from Isaiah 54 says they will outnumber, so there cannot be a limitation to only 144,000 because there are far more than that in the first group. You see, this is where we must understand each other and support our belief with scripture before we can dig deeper.

God had a covenant with the earthly nation of Israel, comparing it to “marriage”, which was fulfilled by Christ’s appearance on earth.  Under that marriage “contract” life was restored to earthly creation – Christ was the “second Adam”.  Isa 62:4

Under the fulfilled promised New Covenant, further life will come through Christ in his role as “father” and the 144,000 Bride. Isa 9:6 The “woman” in Revelation gives “birth” to this promise of further life by those anointed ones “laboring” individually to fulfill the promise.  But once fulfilled, no labor is experienced when the rest of God’s children are brought into the Kingdom. 

She can be considered a “desolate” woman/promise in the time of the end because of Satan’s intent on devouring her, captivating the anointed ones with the delusion of 2 Thess 2:9-12  She is consumed by lies, affliction and oppression; thus, only a remnant returns to God and is saved.  Jer 3:14; 31:7; Luke 17:34-37; Matt 24:28; Rev 11:8; Jer 31:7; Isa 48:20; Matt 24:14, Ezek 34:14; Matt 24:16; Ezek 36:8 

But even through the lifetime of each anointed one, they “labor” to resist Satan’s afflictions that come upon them.1 Pet 5:8,9  When the “capstone” is in place and Satan is destroyed, the fulfilled “woman”/promise is a reality, bringing forth children without labor. The 144,000/Bride are the materialization, the evidence of that promise.

There was a remnant saved from the physical nation of Israel, and a remnant of “spiritual Israel” during the time of the end.  Rom 9:22-29; Rev 12:17; 20:7-9; Luke 17:31-37

“For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. (144,000/Bride)  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.”

These children also, become “Israel” fulfilling the promise to Abraham. 

In Isa 54:11-13 you can see the reference to God’s Temple of “living stones”, with the foundation built on the apostles and prophets within the Body of Christ.  Rev 21:10-14; Eph 2:20

 

 

 

 

[Shiwiii]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

From Rom 8:9 you feel that because the “Spirit of God” and the “Spirit of Christ” are both mentioned, that this indicates two different spirits, am I right?

No, that was the question I posed to you. Based on your writing here, we are in agreement. The Spirit of God IS the Spirit of Jesus and any mention of a person having the Spirit within themselves, have the Spirit of God in them. 

Expanding on this a little, it is the belief of the wt that only those who are anointed have this Spirit, then the wt has declared that the rest (earthly hope in their view) DO NOT BELONG TO JESUS as they do not have the Spirit of Jesus within them. If read within context and of what we are talking about in Romans 8, Jesus DID NOT come to save them (Matt 1:21 on context with Romans 8:9) according to wt.

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

These are prophetic words referring to the God’s Temple built on the Body of Christ.  The “capstone” is the last remnant of the 144,000 anointed priesthood to complete Mt. Zion, and who make it through the Great Tribulation.

This is a leap and assumption not found in scripture. NO WHERE is there a limitation on who belongs to the New Jerusalem. There is no reference to 144k outside of Revelation, and certainly no reference to a spiritual Israel. This was all invented by the wt/gb about 144k. If one is to take this number literally, then why is it not taken literally where they come from? Or who makes up this group? Male Jewish virgins would be the answer. To take only part of the scripture and apply it and not the rest is man creating what man wants to see, not what God has declared. 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

God’s city was the literal Jerusualem, the Temple was the dwelling of God’s spirit. While the anointed are on earth, their “mother” or promise from God is “Jerusalem above”. Gal 4:26 When the faithful ones are sealed into the “heavens”, they become part of the Holy City, because they are symbolically, spiritually, “living stones” of the Temple of God.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 3:12

agreed

2 hours ago, Witness said:

And they are spiritual “Israel”.  The early temple arrangement was a “copy and shadow of the heavenly one”. Only the priesthood among the Israelite nations were chosen to serve in the Temple.  No longer does one’s fleshy nationality matter.  Israel becomes a spiritual nationality under a “promise”.  Heb 8:5; Rom 9:6-9; 11:25,26; 2:28,29; 1 Pet 2:9,10; Jer 31:33; Rev 7:4

I disagree, there is no replacement of Israel or else there would not be anymore mention of Jews and their place in God's plan (Revelation 2:9, 3:9, 7:4-8). In fact your use of Romans 11:25 says there was a temporary hardening of the hearts of Israel, so that the gentiles could come in. Into what? Israel. Then all of Israel will be saved. The Gentiles are Jews by means of the Spirit as you rightly pointed out in Romans 2:28&29. Israel is not going away or being replaced, but rather being added to. 

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

We’ve talked about this, but again, this living Temple, which is the Bride of Christ, will have its presence on earth and in heaven.  Rev 5:9,10; 21:2 Through the Holy Priesthood and Christ, God’s spirit will dwell with mankind.  Rev 21:3,4

yes, I agree.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

God had a covenant with the earthly nation of Israel, comparing it to “marriage”, which was fulfilled by Christ’s appearance on earth.  Under that marriage “contract” life was restored to earthly creation – Christ was the “second Adam”.  Isa 62:4

I feel that the "marriage" is not Christ's appearing, but our acceptance of Jesus as our Lord and Savior. 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Under the fulfilled promised New Covenant, further life will come through Christ in his role as “father” and the 144,000 Bride. Isa 9:6 The “woman” in Revelation gives “birth” to this promise of further life by those anointed ones “laboring” individually to fulfill the promise.  But once fulfilled, no labor is experienced when the rest of God’s children are brought into the Kingdom. 

you are going to have to demonstrate with scripture how you tie 144k and the "Bride". Its just not there, and what I see the "Bride" is amounts to much more than a limited number (Galatians 4). 

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

She can be considered a “desolate” woman/promise in the time of the end because of Satan’s intent on devouring her, captivating the anointed ones with the delusion of 2 Thess 2:9-12  She is consumed by lies, affliction and oppression; thus, only a remnant returns to God and is saved.

agreed

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

But even through the lifetime of each anointed one, they “labor” to resist Satan’s afflictions that come upon them.1 Pet 5:8,9  When the “capstone” is in place and Satan is destroyed, the fulfilled “woman”/promise is a reality, bringing forth children without labor. The 144,000/Bride are the materialization, the evidence of that promise.

again, please connect 144k. All of your explanation falls apart for me without direct correlation of 144k and the "Bride". 

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

In Isa 54:11-13 you can see the reference to God’s Temple of “living stones”, with the foundation built on the apostles and prophets within the Body of Christ.  Rev 21:10-14; Eph 2:20

yes, I do. However, no limitations can be set upon God's temple, and those who make up that temple, that God Himself does not limit and scripture does not tell us the number of those who make up the temple of God. Thus God has not told us the limits, it is only by man that those limitations exist. 

 

 

great discussion, Thank you and I look forward to the next part. 

[Witness]

@Shiwiii, 

I know this long and it only covers probably half of what could.  I also hope beyond hope that it makes sense and the scriptures are accurate! To make things easier, your words are in green.

I have a hard time with most of this because it assumes things about the 144k that just isn't in the Bible. This is a leap and assumption not found in scripture. NO WHERE is there a limitation on who belongs to the New Jerusalem.

New Jerusalem is the Temple coming down out of heaven.  God’s Kingdom will encompass the earth and includes the unlimited amount of God’s children.

We may never agree on who the 144,000 are, Shiwiii, but I will give you my reasoning on it. If the early temple arrangement was a “copy and shadow” of the heavenly one, then the priesthood that served in it, were also a “copy and shadow” of the heavenly, spiritual one.  Not all of Israel were to serve as priests then.  God had a designated number.  I am saying this because the priesthood are the “144,000”, which I will try to convey through scripture. Exod 25:9; Heb 8:5; Eph 2:10; Rev 1:5,6

 There is no reference to 144k outside of Revelation, and certainly no reference to a spiritual Israel. This was all invented by the wt/gb about 144k.

The number is mentioned three times in Revelation, showing its importance within the Temple, New Jerusalem.

If one is to take this number literally, then why is it not taken literally where they come from?

It is Wt. that is taking the number literally, not myself.  I see the symbolic meaning of the number, but if it’s God’s will to use the number literally or only symbolically, (still, for a set number of people, whatever it is) it is his choice, right?  As I have said before, it really is up to God. 

“The city had a massive high wall, with twelve gates. Twelve angels were at the gates; the names of the twelve tribes of Israel’s sons were inscribed on the gates.  There were three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.  The city wall had twelve foundations, and the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb were on the foundations.

 The one who spoke with me had a golden measuring rod to measure the city, its gates, and its wall.  The city is laid out in a square; its length and width are the same. He measured the city with the rod at 12,000 stadia.   Rev 21:12-16

12,000X12,000=144,000 and the same number totaling 12,000 from every tribe of Israel.  Rev 7:4-8

Stadia – a furlong, or racecourse.  2 Tim 4:7,8; Heb 12:1  Can you see that this measurement according to God’s standards gives indication of those anointed priests who successfully conquered Satan during their lifetime?  They have “measured” up to the same standards Christ set before them.   Many times in the scriptures, the Temple/New Jerusalem is prophetically “measured”.  Rev 11:1; Zech 2:1-5; 4:10; Isa 28:17; Amos 7:7,8

Just out of curiosity I looked up “stadia”.  This link helps us fathom its size – if we were to view it literally.  It seems an impossibility for such a building to be on earth, doesn’t it?  Yet, it is very possible that it can be represented by individuals chosen as God’s dwelling.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/revelation-21/revelation-21-16.html

“I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.”  Rev 21:22 

As we have established, the Temple is not a literal building, but the dwelling of God, Christ and Holy Spirit within the anointed ones. 1 Cor 3:16; 6:19; Rom 8:9,11; Eph 2:22; Heb 3:6   God’s “servants”  “slave” for the purpose God has established for mankind, by reconciling humans to himself, just as the early priesthood did through animal sacrifices; but this time they become the perpetual sacrifice. 2 Cor 5:20; Mal 2:7; Rev 22:3; Rom 12:1   

“Its length, width, and height are equal.  Then he measured its wall, 144 cubits according to human measurement, which the angel used.”  Rev 21:17

The city being measured according to God’s standards, is the Holy City, New Jerusalem. Yet, it is measured in two different ways, one being a human measurement.  This is because the Holy City/God’s Temple encases the new creation – both human and spirit.  2 Cor 5:17; Rev 21:1; Gal 6:15; 2 Pet 3:13; Ezek 36:26; 2 Cor 3:3; Jer 24:7; 31:33; Ezek 11:19; Rom 2:29; 1 Cor 15:44-49 

Rev 7:4-8 lists the 12 tribes from Israel with 12,000 in each tribe.  There are also 24 elders mentioned several times in Revelation.  Rev 4:4,10; 5:14,3:21  These coincide with the Levitical priesthood that had 24 elders/head priests over the families of that tribe.  1 Chron 24:1-4; 19 This shows the connection to the Bride/priesthood.  Notice also, what Jesus told the foundation of the Temple, the apostles:

Luke 22:29,30 - I bestow on you a kingdom, just as my Father bestowed one on me, so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom.  And you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.  Luke 22:29,30  Rev 7:4; 1 Cor 3:9,10

The Temple is the City of Truth. Zech 8:3 “Two” represents truth in scripture and the numbers 12, 24, 144, have their roots in the symbolic meaning of “two”, but that is another topic for another day.  John 8:17  Even a thousand – 10X10X10 – has great significance of complete perfection during a span of time, as can be seen with the symbolic Thousand Year reign of Christ. Whatever God has promised to come, is truthfully fulfilled within the 144,000.  Revelation is a book of “signs”; thus the number “144,000” signifies “truth” to reign through those assigned as “priests and kings” (Rev 5:8-11) throughout God’s Kingdom.    Rev 1:1; Isa 60:21,22; 1 Pet 2:9,10; 2 Pet 3:8; Rev 1:5,6; Gen 22:17,18; Isa 65:22

So, the city that is measured on the basis of 12,000 is the same city that “comes down out of heaven” prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.  Rev 21:22 (2 Cor 11:2)

If the Temple is the dwelling of God, Christ and the Bride, the 144,000 who are standing on Mount Zion/Temple/Holy City can be none other than the Bride. 

“Then I looked, and there was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him were 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.”   Rev 14:1

The Bride will always be with Christ.

The name on the forehead designates the sealing of the faithful anointed priests.  (Deut 6:6,8; Rev 13:16; 20:4)

 About the 144,000 it continues,

“These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, since they remained virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were redeemedfrom humanity as the firstfruits for God and the Lamb.”  Rev 14:4

The 144,000 are virgins, firstfruits, follow the Lamb, Jesus; and have the Father’s name written on their forehead.  A virgin Bride would follow its husband, she becomes one with her husband – who is one with the Father; thus, another indication of the Father’s name is written on her forehead (Rev 3:12) and she is “virgin” Israel. 1 John 5:20; 2 Cor 11:2; Rom 9:6  There are not two types or sets of “firstfruits” – only the anointed ones chosen to be the Bride, who are both male and female. 

I disagree, there is no replacement of Israel or else there would not be anymore mention of Jews and their place in God's plan (Revelation 2:9, 3:9, 7:4-8). In fact your use of Romans 11:25 says there was a temporary hardening of the hearts of Israel, so that the gentiles could come in. Into what? Israel. Then all of Israel will be saved.

The Gentiles are Jews by means of the Spirit as you rightly pointed out in Romans 2:28&29. Israel is not going away or being replaced, but rather being added to. 

If they are Jews by means of the Spirit, they become spiritual “Jews” and spiritual “Israel”. No longer does the physical matter since circumcision “is of the heart”. (Gal 3:26-29)  A literal Jew receives circumcision of the flesh. Just as you used the example of the “virgins” as not literal males, why would the Jews mentioned in Rev 2:9;3:9;7:4-8 be literal?  The significance of circumcision was marking those under the covenant with Abraham at the time, which has been fulfilled in Christ’s coming to earth. 

Rom 2:28,29 – “For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, and true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh. On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter. That person’s praise is not from people but from God.”

 2 Cor 5:2; Eph 2:22

 Now it is not as though the word of God has failed, because not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.  Neither are all of Abraham’s children his descendants. On the contrary, your offspring will be traced through Isaac. ⁸ That is, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but the children of the promise are considered to be the offspring. Rom 9:6-8

 Since ‘not all Israel are Israel’, there are both members of literal tribes from Jesus’ day, and those who share possible similarities of those literal tribes, who were once physical Gentiles, but now are spiritual “Israel”.    They are all “children of a *spiritual* promise”. 

 

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;  who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.” 1 Pet 2:9,10

^“ Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,  you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.   1 Pet 2:4,5

This new creation/God’s dwelling is the Bride of Christ, sealed servants of God from 12 “tribes”.

you are going to have to demonstrate with scripture how you tie 144k and the "Bride". Its just not there, and what I see the "Bride" is amounts to much more than a limited number (Galatians 4). 

They are both virgins -  Jer 18:23; 31:4; 2 Cor 11:2; Rev 14:3,4

They are both found in the Temple -  Rev 14:1; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Heb 12:22

They are both spiritual Israel  -  Rom 9:6; Rev 7:4

They are both “firstfruits” - James1:18; Rev.14:4; 20:6

Both the 144,000 and the Bride are sealed – Rev 7:5; Eph 1:13; 4:30

The significance of both, point to the appointed priesthood designated to serve God and Christ. 

There is another thought about the New Covenant woman/”Sarah”. Sarai is referred to as the “barren one”, (Gen 11:30) but through the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise, her children will be “born” with no labor pains. (Gal 4:27) Doesn’t it make sense that the children, grandchildren greatgrandchildren far outnumber the Bride? 

However, no limitations can be set upon God's temple, and those who make up that temple, that God Himself does not limit and scripture does not tell us the number of those who make up the temple of God. Thus God has not told us the limits, it is only by man that those limitations exist

The capstone is the completion of the Temple. Zech. refers to the two olive trees, Revelation refers to the same .Zech 4:12-14; Rev 11:4 They are the last “living stones” of the “144,000” to come out of the Great Tribulation, and sealed into the Temple, bearing the mark of God and Christ.  Rev 3:12;2:17

‘Who are you, O great mountain?  (Rev 8:8)
Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain!
And he shall bring forth the capstone (“headstone”, from the root word, “to build”.)  Eph 2:20-22
With shouts of “Grace, grace to it!” ’ ”

“The hands of Zerubbabel
Have laid the foundation of this temple; (1 Cor 3:11)
His hands shall also finish it.
Then you will know
That the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you.”   Zech 4:9

 Rev 11:1,3,4,7,8,11,12

There is a limitation to the members of the Temple, but it waits to be seen just what the exact number will be. 

 

 

 

[Matthew9969]

33 When they heard this, they ^twere enraged and wanted to kill them. 34 But a Phariseein the council named ^uGamaliel, ^va teacher of the law held in honor by all the people,stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while. 35 And he said to them,“Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. 36 For ^wbefore thesedays Theudas rose up, ^xclaiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about fourhundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came tonothing. 37 After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of ^ythe census and drew awaysome of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered.38 So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for ^zifthis plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; 39 but ^aif it is of God, you will not beable to overthrow them. You ^bmight even be found opposing God!” Acts:5

 

1 Praise the Lord!

Praise the Lord, O my soul!

2 I will praise the Lord as long as I live;

I will sing praises to my God while I have my being.

3 Put not your trust in princes,

in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.

4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth;

on that very day his plans perish.

5 Blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob,

whose hope is in the Lord his God,

6 who made heaven and earth,

the sea, and all that is in them,

who keeps faith forever;

7 who executes justice for the oppressed,

who gives food to the hungry.

The Lord sets the prisoners free;

8 the Lord opens the eyes of the blind.

The Lord lifts up those who are bowed down;

the Lord loves the righteous.

9 The Lord watches over the sojourners;

he upholds the widow and the fatherless,

but the way of the wicked he brings to ruin.

10 The Lord will reign forever,

your God, O Zion, to all generations.

Praise the Lord!

 

 ²³ At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. ²⁴ For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.²⁵ See, I have told you ahead of time.

²⁶ “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. ²⁷ For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. ²⁸ Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

[Matthew9969]

Is the governing body again apostatizing from the Jehovah witnesses?

 

[Witness]

9 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Is the governing body again apostatizing from the Jehovah witnesses?

Worse.

It appears the organization has apostatized from God. 

If God cannot be worshipped without an earthly organization, then what do have, but an idol? 

“Jehovah God’s glory directly lights up this organization, just as the Shechinah cloud illuminated the Most Holy.”  w05 8/15 p. 31 

“Their work brings praise to Jehovah and his organization.” kr chap. 20 pp. 209-219 

I am Yahweh, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another
or My praise to idols.  Isa 42:8

What is sad, Matthew, is God's word from Isaiah will be rejected, and man's word will rule.  So, I ask, do JWs really know God?