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Jack Ryan
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They actually believe this, that Jesus is God's Son, as well as Jesus being a Prophet. There biggest problem is they do not adhere to or believe in the idea that Jesus is God, a teaching that is affil

But Muhammad was a false prophet anyway and Islam is way off line. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law and was the last prophet ever needed in that sense.  Jesus was resurrected as the most important

Nevermind.. it is all false:  

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But Muhammad was a false prophet anyway and Islam is way off line.

Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law and was the last prophet ever needed in that sense.  Jesus was resurrected as the most important spirit person (apart from God himself) and returned to Heaven. And it is only through Jesus that we can receive everlasting life from God. 

Almighty God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the 66 Books of the Holy Scriptures (in the hands of the anointed) are all that is needed for true direction. 

It is impossible to please God by sitting on the fence and believing that 'all roads lead to God'. 

If you are 'happy' with the religion of Islam then you cannot be serving God properly.  

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But Muhammad was a false prophet anyway and Islam is way off line.

I wouldn't say they are way off the line granted if one understands their views to it's core whereas the basics of their views can and is understood by most.

That being said, there sign in question is just another example of faith bashing without having all the facts, and nothing more.

The sign itself was most likely brought up there by Trinitarians, who consider Muslims, especially those who know the Bible very well, to be a thorn on their side.

But to the core of Islam itself they only believe in one true God, that is the Father, and it is not a surprise that like us Christians, they hold the utmost respect for the Shema Yisrael, just as must as the Christians and the Jews.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law and was the last prophet ever needed in that sense.  Jesus was resurrected as the most important spirit person (apart from God himself) and returned to Heaven. And it is only through Jesus that we can receive everlasting life from God. 

It should be realized that Muslims means a believer of God, that they themselves believe that Jesus is a Prophet, the major difference is they do not believe he is crucified. They ultimately believe Jesus is very, very important and just like their Samaritan counterparts, they believe Jesus is a Prophet.

For example a verse in the Qu'ran will say the following f Jesus being spoken of as a Prophet:

  • 19:30 Yusif Ali [Jesus was given revelation by Allah] - He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet.

They also believe that Jesus did return to Heaven, although they do not believe that he was curlicued at all, as mentioned.

Just as we believe Jesus is a messenger of God, sent (shaliach), who is Lord and Christ/Messiah, they too believe this as well.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Almighty God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the 66 Books of the Holy Scriptures (in the hands of the anointed) are all that is needed for true direction. 

The thing is, however, our Bible has been corrupted over time, hence why we have to thank the manuscripts and the Strong's and both Textual Criticism and Hermeneutics to root out false verses from true ones, verses that respect the Strong's and verses that do not.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It is impossible to please God by sitting on the fence and believing that 'all roads lead to God'. 

But there are those who try and are willing.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If you are 'happy' with the religion of Islam then you cannot be serving God properly.  

It is not about being happy with a faith, it is about not kicking a fellowman when he is down.

So if someone brings things up like this, they'll be corrected, for I have done here. So if anyone speaks of the Hadith and not have a clue of the history of Aisha will often jump to conclusions.

And when dealing with a Muslims, one has to be very careful because they can play that same game with us regarding Virgin Mary who was pretty much a pre-teen and the girls who were not cursed that were taken in by a Prophet of God in the Old Testament, and or the actions of Saul.

To teach someone the Word of God we must do as Paul had done, get on their level, for you already have a common God with Muslims, that God is our Father and Jesus is his Son.

That being said, understand where the sons and daughters of of Ishmael are coming from, like with other faiths, not a wise idea to adhere to falsehood and conspiracies complied by those who dislike them.

One of the reason I suggest you not go to Hyde Park otherwise known as Speaker's Corner since you are in the UK- it is a place of mass debate.

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Quote To teach someone the Word of God we must do as Paul had done, get on their level, for you already have a common God with Muslims, that God is our Father and Jesus is his Son.

However I thought that Muslims didn't believe in God having a son.

Again quote It is not about being happy with a faith, it is about not kicking a fellowman when he is down.

SM You seem quite happy to 'correct' anyone on here that you find giving false information.  Therefore is it not right for a Christian to tell a Muslim that they are serving God incorrectly ?

And if Muslims do not believe that Jesus Christ came from God, and was born as perfect man, so that he could die a perfect man and fulfill the Mosaic Law and lead us to everlasting life, then Muslims do not have the truth from God do they ?  

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

However I thought that Muslims didn't believe in God having a son.

They actually believe this, that Jesus is God's Son, as well as Jesus being a Prophet. There biggest problem is they do not adhere to or believe in the idea that Jesus is God, a teaching that is affiliated with Trinitarian/Modalistic practices.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

SM You seem quite happy to 'correct' anyone on here that you find giving false information.  Therefore is it not right for a Christian to tell a Muslim that they are serving God incorrectly ?

The reason I speak on their behalf at times is because of those who single them into one category, those who have Islamophobia. A Christian can preach the gospel to a Muslim however Muslims assume, only some of them, that all Christians are Trinitarians, an example would be that of Soco Films (exposed as lairs and frauding those the debate against), who are hardcore Trinitarians in the UK, they go after Jews, Catholics, JWs, Baptist, and the focus target, Muslims, the very reason why Muslims now study the Bible to point out issues with Trinitarians.

Indeed, anything of falsehood or conspiracy.

There is another area, like this forum regarding Dawah, whereas Trinitarians and Muslims are often at odds with each other, while at the same time Non-Trinitarians go at it with Trinitarians, something of which I mentioned here several times before.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And if Muslims do not believe that Jesus Christ came from God, and was born as perfect man, so that he could die a perfect man and fulfill the Mosaic Law and lead us to everlasting life, then Muslims do not have the truth from God do they ?  

Muslims do believe. Isa ibn Maryam meaning Jesus Son of Mary or simply Jesus. The Qu'ran and most Hadiths (testimonial) gives mention of Jesus, that he [Jesus] was born as a pure boy/child, who has no sin by means of his human mother, Mary. They understand that Jesus is a prophet and messenger of God (Allah in Arabic) and they believe he is the Christ/Messiah (Al'Masih), sent by God to help and give guidance the Children of Israel with a new revelation, to give the good news gospel, otherwise known as Al'Injil in Arabic or simply termed the gospel. Jesus who is the Christ, or in this case, Al'Masih, in Islam, is believed to be a prophet who neither married nor had any children and is reflected as a significant figure of importance. Jesus is mentioned over dozens of time in the Qu'ran with various titles, for example Son of Mary.

So it is unknown to anyone that they have a good idea who the Christ is, although the modern day children of Ishmael, the Muslims, view differ, but their view of God is accurate. The difference here is that they do not believe that Jesus had died, they believe he went straight into heaven to escape heaven once God had saved him out of the hands of those who wish to kill him compared to Christianity, who believe Jesus did in fact die.

I wouldn't say truth faith, but one has to realize to understand their views so conspiracy or falsehood isn't made against them, just as this sign in the thread makes no information of. Another factor is those using a Qu'ran that is not of the actual source, granted the Qu'ran had very very old manuscripts that were actually found.

That being said, there is always a list of difference, but there is factual information as to why this or why that, so to speak. Other than that they believe in eternal life, and that Jesus would return also, making all people believe in God, for Jesus will come to destroy the wicked, and put an end to the False Messiah to which we call the Anti-Christ, this term is called e Al'Masih-Ad'Dajjal in Arabic and that Jesus is to establish peace on earth.

 

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5 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

Nevermind.. it is all false:

 

Mr. Ryan, surely you can show me the Qu'ran or the Hadith in regards to your original post. At this I challenge you - that is, if anything, you can always turn the other cheek and remain in complete radio silence.

 

At this, I will wait because the Da'wah has to be given to the man who speaks in claims and I'd love to see your response in regards to what you have posted.

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@Jack Ryan After it has taken that long since a Da'wah was in order, it is say to say you didn't have proof to begin with, just a mere screenshot picture and a thread that amounts to nothing. If you bring this up to an educated Muslim who is knowledgeable of his own book and the bible, you would lose, and for John's sake, if you both live in the UK, Hyde Park is not the place you want to be if you cannot bring proof to claim i.e. you speak of Muhammad, they will bring up Moses and you instantly lose if you do not know the context of both persons.

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On 12/27/2018 at 2:04 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Why not  go back to the sign at the top and bluntly answer if any of those accusations are true or false. No excuses or sidelines. Are they true or false ? 

And for my point why was Muhammad even needed ? Didn't Jesus do all that was necessary ? 

I will answer the first one, the rest can be found via fact checks in the link, which proves shows clearly that Jack Ryan was in the wrong: The first one is regarding Aisha, who is also known as The Mother of Believers. The misconception here is Aisha's age, some will say 6 years of age, others 9. Aisha was about 10 years younger that her older sister Asmaa, who was around 27 at the time of Hijra (making Aisha around 17), which concludes that the consummation was when she was around 19.

NOTE: The Islamic Hijra [Hegira] is the migration or journey of the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his followers from Mecca to Yathrib, later renamed by him to Medina, in the year 622.... In addition, after being warned of a plot to assassinate him, Muhammad secretly left his home in Mecca to emigrate to Yathrib, 320 km north of Mecca, along with his companion, Abu Bakr.

Aisha was born some time before her calling, for she must have been at least around the age of 15 at the time of consummation, this meaning the action of making a marriage or relationship complete by having sexual relations, and this doesn't contradict the statement that was made previously. Furthermore, Aisha was present during the battle of Uhud, a battle between the early Muslims and their Qurayshi Meccan enemies in 625 CE in the Hejazi region of the Arabian Peninsula. She, Aisha, was the one who was carrying water bags, and serving the injured in this area. If Aisha was the age of 10, let alone 9 or 6, it would not possible for her to partake in such an action, especially that the prophet himself had sent away all underage people (except for one, who was accompanied by his older brother). This makes more sense if she was around 20 at the time of the battle of Uhud. Moreover, the misconception of Aisha has another factor, for those in Islam is against sexual relations with a minor, especially someone at a young age in Aisha's case whereas the reality of said situation she was much older than that.

That being said, it is foolish to even challenge a Muslim on this because they can bring forth the actions of Moses, who took up young women for his men has wives while still maintaining the status of a Prophet and Christians who lack knowing the Old Testament will end up speaking badly and or even denouncing Moses, his examples and his Laws (going into the realm of cherry picking without explaining Moses' actions), moreover, they can speak of Mary of the Bible, who was practically a pre-teen (age 11-12).

And that is merely the first one. What Jack didn't say here is that image of his was ruled out with facts and truth to claims that are professed to trick the masses, for the other examples can be found here:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/indiana-muslims-muhammads-deeds/

On 12/27/2018 at 2:04 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

And for my point why was Muhammad even needed ?

Because like to us Christians, who rely on the Prophets as seen in the Bible, to the Muslims, Muhammad was a Prophet, and Muhammad was not the only Prophet the Muslims follow, even some Prophets we read in the Bible they also follow. For example, Prophet Isaiah, in Islam, Prophet Isaiah's name in Arabic is أشعياء [transliterated: Ashiʻyā']. Although he is not mentioned by name in the Qu'ran or the Hadith, Muslims accept Isaiah as a Prophet, even going as far as to reproduce Jewish traditions regarding Isaiah, furthermore, Isaiah was mentioned by Ibn Kathir's story.

So they adhere to their prophets in the same sense we adhere to ours, that is, should we accept the words of our Prophets whereas most Christians do not.

On 12/27/2018 at 2:04 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Didn't Jesus do all that was necessary ? 

Pertaining to what I said before, they believe in Jesus also, as like us, they see him as a Prophet, so the answer would be yes, Jesus is needed by them and he is vital in their practices and teachings.

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