Apostles, Judas, GB, Raymond, Satan, Holy Spirit

[TrueTomHarley]

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

All in all, my prison time went well, working, going to school inside prison walls, not have problems with other prisoners, after 2 years get my first vacation to visit home. I am kind of introvert, and to be alone is not so harsh punishment  in my case :))) i like more to be alone in 3x2,5 cell than in crowd. Perhaps .... or certainly/ obviously.... i have some unsolved psycho and early childhood issues :))))   

There is a certain Paulesqe quality here that is not such a bad thing at all - the ability to be content with an abundance or a lack.

[Srecko Sostar]

20 hours ago, Anna said:

The FDS being only the members of the GB make practical sense as most of the other anointed are scattered all over the earth and are in different time zones, so to expect for them to sit in on, and contribute to the dispensing of spiritual food would be unrealistic.

funny explanation :))

[Srecko Sostar]

20 hours ago, Anna said:

You are right, we don't have to look far to find them. Here is a whole list of teachings that were revised or updated: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174

Do you think it would have been better to stick to the previous understanding and never change anything?

Of course, people have to change previous doctrinal nonsense. If doctrinal nonsense including some trivial ideas that not affect your life in important things then it can be possible for all JW to laugh together on that.

But when some doctrinal nonsense cause prison, death, personal and family problems ---- ???? what comfort and what kind of love will GB Teachers  give you as compensation and help?    

As we can see, from past to today, they give you another nonsense.

[Srecko Sostar]

18 hours ago, Anna said:

The reasoning was that alternative service would be a substitute or "in place of"....which was perceived being "the same as" fighting in a war, in which case Acts 5:29 would apply 

Reasoning of this type is/was nonsense ....., and JW people have to take clear stand and say that aloud to their human leaders.

[JOHN BUTLER]

18 hours ago, Anna said:

Hence, if a government / ruler of a country offered Alternative Service that was not going against the will of God, then the people should obey it. - Romans 13.

The reasoning was that alternative service would be a substitute or "in place of"....which was perceived being "the same as" fighting in a war, in which case Acts 5:29 would apply  And the point was that as long as this service was commanded by the army, you couldn’t do it. But if it was commanded by any other institution it was ok. I think the problem starts when the brothers get bogged down with absolute detail in an effort to cover all bases. Unfortunately, it then becomes a pretzel of reasoning. It’s like Trinitarians trying to explain the Trinity. Someone on here posted an anecdotal example of this pretzel type reasoning with a mock WT article on why true Christians shouldn't own a cat. I have a suspicion that it was one certain brother who had a penchant for this type of reasoning......

All probably would have been well had this ambiguous situation been left to conscience in the first place, instead of trying to make rules where none existed......

Now this is very wrong indeed. However I'm wondering if this fits in with the misuse of the Romans 13 scripture concerning the 'superior authorities'. 

The Society / GB were still misusing this scripture until 1962 I think. So JW's could not use that scripture correctly and say they had to obey the Superior Authorities' meaning the Government / Secular Authority..... Because the Society /GB were telling lies and pretending it meant God and Jesus Christ. 

From 1929 to 1962, the Superior Authorities became “the Most High God Jehovah and his exalted Son Jesus Christ.” (This Means Everlasting Life (1950) p.197)

Which is absolutely stupid as the scripture says :- 

 Let every person* be in subjection to the superior authorities,a for there is no authority except by God;b the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.c ²  Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves.

Note :  'stand placed in their relative positions by God'. So if you believed the Society /GB they were saying that the Most High God Jehovah, was 'placed in his relative positions by God'. It makes no sense at all. 

Now back to other stupid ideas.

1. that communal work was as bad as killing people. 

2. that it really mattered who gave the  orders. 

Which takes us back to Superior Authorities being placed in their position by GOD. And if the Armed Forces are part of the Superior Authority because they enforce that authority, then so be it. 

The fact that it was perceived being "the same as"   shows a complete lack of spiritual guidance. 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@JW Insider  Quote " Surely if the Bible says be no part of the world, and love your enemy, etc., anyone could easily interpret this to mean that support of the military is support of the "enemy" which is Satan's world and it's machinations. "

I totally disagree with you on this, but as I've mentioned to @Anna that the Society / GB were misusing the Superior Authority scripture in Romans 13. 

If the Romans scripture had been used correctly then it would have meant they would have been submitting to those Superior Authorities that God had put in place. If it was 'orders from', then it was not showing 'support for', it was just being 'obedient to'. Big difference in my humble opinion. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@JW Insider  Quote "(Romans 13 could be invoked as "the sword" of the authorities -- paying back Caesar's things to Caesar, etc.)"

Are but problem there was, Romans 13 was being misused at the time, to mean God and Jesus Christ. 

[Witness]

21 hours ago, Anna said:

The FDS being only the members of the GB make practical sense as most of the other anointed are scattered all over the earth and are in different time zones, so to expect for them to sit in on, and contribute to the dispensing of spiritual food would be unrealistic. In any case, I don't think everyone of the other anointed, with a few exceptions, ever contributed to the dispensing of spiritual food (apart from their own preaching, just like all the other Witnesses), so it has always been symbolic anyway.

Can't you see this as the perfect setup for a "Wicked Slave" to wield authority over Christ's other slaves?  Matt 24:48-51  It shows the organization for the scam it is; not only are the anointed scattered, they CANNOT bond, according to your magazines.  They cannot reveal their identity as one of Christ's slaves.    That would threaten the rule of the GB.  Yes, it is clever how the anointed in the organization are unable to "dispense spiritual food", even if by letter form to the ruling authority.  Luke 22:24-27  It is easier to throw them out, rather than let them gather and bring their own spiritual food to the table.  John 16:2    

 

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Are but problem there was, Romans 13 was being misused at the time, to mean god and Jesus Christ. 

True. That had a lot to do with the original practice, which appeared to leave conscience out of it. (Of course, other scriptures said the same thing as Romans 13). But by 1962 that should not have got in the way any longer. Still, once something gets stuck, it's hard to get it unstuck.

 

[JW Insider]

22 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If the Romans scripture had been used correctly then it would have meant they would have been submitting to those Superior Authorities that God had put in place. If it was 'orders from', then it was not showing 'support for', it was just being 'obedient to'. Big difference in my humble opinion.

That's one way to look at it. It would go against my own conscience. What might a nation or government ever ask you to do that might go against your conscience, if I may ask?

[JOHN BUTLER]

3 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

That's one way to look at it. It would go against my own conscience. What might a nation or government ever ask you to do that might go against your conscience, if I may ask?

I would not go to war in the real sense of going prepared to kill people. But I would work on a farm producing food. 

I would not vote for a person or political party. I would not become part of a political party. I would not salute the flag. 

But :- 

Matthew 5 v 41 

"And if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles."

 

 

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I would not go to war in the real sense of going prepared to kill people. But I would work on a farm producing food.    I would not vote for a person or political party. I would not become part of a political party. I would not salute the flag. 

But :-   Matthew 5 v 41

"And if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles." 

Great answer!