The heavenly resurrection begins after the fall of Babylon the Great

[John 12.24to28]

I am all for Bible morality. You will always get a straight answer from me.😁

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, boyle said:

I'm still waiting for with your answer

 

As Axl Rose sang in "Patience":

 

"Said "woman take it slow, and it'll work itself out fine"

All we need is just a little patience

Said "sugar make it slow and we'll come together fine"

All we need is just a little patience (Patience)

Mm, yeah." 

 

Be patient, @boyle you will get your answer, your "concrete evidence" in time. "All we need is just a little patience."

 

Sometimes when people wanted "concrete evidence" regarding Jesus' words, he told them they needed patience. "Then as an answer to him, some of the scribes and the Pharisees said: “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.” In reply he said to them: “A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Joʹnah the prophet. For just as Joʹnah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.  Men of Ninʹe·veh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, because they repented at what Joʹnah preached. But look! something more than Joʹnah is here.  The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solʹo·mon. But look! something more than Solʹo·mon is here.""

 

Jesus said of himself: "“I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator.  He takes away every branch in me not bearing fruit, and he cleans every one bearing fruit, so that it may bear more fruit.  You are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.  Remain in union with me, and I will remain in union with you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in union with me.  I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever remains in union with me and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing at all.""

 

Jesus said he would send the helper, the holy spirit, to help his followers understand the scriptures at the proper time. I do not come in my name, I come in Jehovah's name, in union with Christ. When I share what the scriptures say about the United Nations attacking the Bethels at the beginning of the great tribulation, I am speaking in harmony with the direction of the holy spirit. You will know that Jehovah sent me by means of the holy spirit when those things take place. Have patience. You will see your "concrete evidence". 

 

"Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.  Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,  teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.""

 

"But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth.  Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man."

[Pudgy]

….

 

[John 12.24to28]

25 minutes ago, boyle said:

What, you're saying, you are equal to Jesus by this comment? Please explain? How can Jesus words and your opinion be the same? Remember, Jesus was perfect, while the rest of us aren't.

 

I am definitely not Jesus. I am not anyone important. I am just a slave for the Master, just like so many others. When I share the words he gave me, he is the one who is glorified, and His Father. "Whatever you are doing, work at it whole-souled as for Jehovah, and not for men, for you know that it is from Jehovah you will receive the inheritance as a reward. Slave for the Master, Christ." I am happy slaving for Him.

 

"You will be brought before kings and governors for the sake of my name.  It will result in your giving a witness.  Therefore, resolve in your hearts not to rehearse beforehand how to make your defense,  for I will give you words and wisdom that all your opposers together will not be able to resist or dispute."

 

As regards your desire for evidence, you will have to exercise your thinking ability to decide who comes in God's name and who doesn't. A lot of people might say "we're on a mission from God..." but that doesn't necessarily make it so...

 

 

John said to "test the inspired expressions."

 

"When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’"

 

If the governing body told the truth about what the Bible teaches as regards 1914 and the great tribulation and the heavenly resurrection, fine, then believe that they came in harmony with Jesus direction when they spoke those things. If what happens is in harmony with what some other lowly person told you who claimed to be "on a mission from God," well, then, there's your "absolute concrete evidence." It's not complicated.

 

"“You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when located on a mountain.  People light a lamp and set it, not under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it shines on all those in the house.  Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens. 

 

“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.  Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away from the Law until all things take place."

 

All of the prophecies recorded in the scriptures will come true. Including what the Bible prophesies about the organization being attacked by the UN at the beginning of the great tribulation, and what the scriptures say about the heavenly resurrection taking place during the great tribulation. Jehovah always sends his messengers first, Jehovah's witnesses, that He may be glorified when His Word comes true. The prophecies will all take place. Jehovah is glorified in this. Praise Jehovah.

 

(I have some stuff I have to get done now this afternoon, hope you guys have a good rest of your day!) 😊

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, boyle said:

So when Jesus gave the church authority over its members by means of the Elders, you obey Jesus, not yourself?

 

 

When the elders in Jerusalem told the disciples to stop telling the truth, how did the disciples respond?

 

"In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men...we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”

 

We obey the elders when they tell us to do things that are in harmony with God's Word.

 

We obey God first when the elders/branch/Bethel/FDS/GB tell us to do things that are not in harmony with God's Word.

 

"Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves."

 

When the elders/branch/Bethel/FDS/GB tell someone to embrace a false teaching or to ignore their brother, the elders/branch/Bethel/FDS/GB are taking a stand against the Highest Authority. Jehovah appointed Jesus as King. Jesus' blood is enough to repurchase any of Adam's children who have faith and obey Christ, regardless of the man-made regulations and decrees of some Pharisee court on earth. (The OD book is not canonical. The elder's book is not canonical. The currently practiced  disfellowshipping doctrine is not scriptural. Neither is the 1914 teaching and many other teachings put forward by the so-called "Faithful and Discreet Slave".)

 

I will continue to speak to my brothers (or anyone else who wants to listen for that matter) about the truth, regardless of any satanic doctrines passed by apostates in the organization who want to call themselves elders. I respect elders who are really elders. I know there are real elders in the organization (and some outside the organization) at present. 

 

Jesus was "disfellowshipped" by corrupt elders in Jerusalem who sat on a kangaroo court. Jehovah did not approve of that court. He permitted it, but He didn't approve of it. The "judicial hearings" in the organization  today are also kangaroo courts. They do not have God's support, as He is about to show very soon.

 

I support my Father, Jehovah, and my Lord, Christ Jesus, and whoever they appoint to act as elders. Real Elders and Fake Elders are known by their fruits.

 

"Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.  By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they?  Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit.  A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit.  Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men."

 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/music-songs/become-jehovahs-friend-children-original-songs/the-fruitage-of-the-spirit-memorize-the-qualities/

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, boyle said:

Elders

 

"Elder" means "older brother". I know who my real older brothers are. (The ones who act like older brothers, for real. 🙂)

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, boyle said:

Jesus gave the church authority over its members by means of the Elders

 

Who are the two oldest "elders" anyway? What Does the Bible Really Teach?

 

“I kept watching until thrones were set in place and the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was white like snow, and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire.  A stream of fire was flowing and going out from before him. A thousand thousands kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The Court took its seat, and books were opened."

 

"And you, O Bethʹle·hem Ephʹra·thah, The one too little to be among the thousands of Judah, From you will come out for me the one to be ruler in Israel, Whose origin is from ancient times, from the days of long ago.  So he will give them up Until the time that she who is to give birth has given birth.  And the rest of his brothers will return to the people of Israel. He will stand up and shepherd in the strength of Jehovah, In the superiority of the name of Jehovah his God.  And they will dwell in security, For now his greatness will reach the ends of the earth.  And he will bring peace."

 

Jehovah, the Ancient of Days

Jesus, whose origin is from ancient times

 

The eldest of the elders.

 

Always obey those elders. The authority of Jesus and Jehovah is more than the authority of any other elder on earth. Praise Jehovah.

[Pudgy]

I absolutely do not think that the Governing Body or Elders are in anyway “taking a stand against God“ when they go beyond what is written.

I think it’s done out of ignorance because of the intense pressure of  basic organizational survival, and misplaced agenda driven loyalty, because they realize the importance of being loyal to God, but it’s not really clear in their/our minds how to do it.

All people have different levels of confidence and competence in their abilities.

…. but, as is so often the case it’s not what they know that’s important, it’s what they think they know, and are absolutely sure that they know, which is wrong.

My three children, to the best of my knowledge are absolutely 100% committed to the organization and its teachings.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

One is an Elder in Texas. All three are model Citizens. 

They are doing much better than I in almost every measurable way.

This is multiplied by a factor of about 2.5 million globally in improving peoples’ lives.

That is why in my not so humble opinion, the Watchtower Bible and Tracy Society is humanitie’s best bet for being good citizens, blameless in every respect, and to become friends of God.

Yes, policies and procedures and some theology is in serious, serious need of reform, but Jehovah knows who is His, from within or without, and JWs are civilization’s best bet for survival and prosperity.

Yes, I am disfellowshipped, but facts are facts …. and the fact is that this time is no different than when the Jews fell away from  serving Jehovah in a very big way, and He still claimed them until it was HIS TIME FOR A CHANGE.

Collateral damage is an unavoidable fact of warfare, and any religious group over 200 people with real estate.

….. get used to it.

 

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

My three children, to the best of my knowledge are absolutely 100% committed to the organization and its teachings.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

One is an Elder in Texas. All three are model Citizens. 

They are doing much better than I in almost every measurable way.

 

I am glad they are well. I am interested, though, in how you are defining "better" in this instance. I mean that with all respect, my brother. Do you mean "better" from a worldly point of view, or "better" from a what-is-published point of view, or from a dad point of view? I am curious.

[Pudgy]

All three points of view.

To understand why I see it that way you would have to read the third chapter of Isaac Asimov’s “ I, Robot”.

Here is the whole book in PDF FORMAT.

I think, upon reflection, you will find it quite profound.

 

I, robot.pdf

[Pudgy]

I think what I wrote is crystal clear, and even gave you the key to correctly understand my perspective.

As usual, you ignored it, spouting agenda driven presumptions with false premises.

…… same-oh  same-oh.

 

[John 12.24to28]

@Pudgy, I am an ex-sf person. (Ex-sci-fi.) I was too addicted to sci-fi/horror for too much of my life, back in my evolution/atheist days. It's nothing personal, and I don't care if other people enjoy sci-fi. It's just not my thing anymore. I know Asimov wrote a ton of books, and many of them aren't sci-fi, I'm probably more likely to look at one of those non-sci-fi books, especially if it's non-fiction. I'm trying to be more boring.🙂

 

When I think about the great tribulation beginning at the Bethels, emotionally it's almost like watching that playground nuclear apocalypse scene from Terminator 2. It doesn't matter how "good" the kids are doing in school. When the tribulation hits, how "good" the kids are doing secularly, in the congregation, in the world - it won't matter. What matters is their relationship with Jehovah. He's the only one that can save any of us.

 

These "kids" at Bethel - they're Jehovah's kids. This is Jehovah's organization, and His Name is on it. I don't have any doubts that it's His organization, and I don't have any doubts that many people are better for having been taught Bible basics from Jehovah's organization. But I also understand what Jesus said when he told the Pharisees they scoured the earth to find a proselyte but then made that proselyte more ready for Gehenna then before.

 

It wasn't until I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses that I learned how to completely shun my mother. For about 15 years I ignored my own mother because she was "disfellowshipped". Of all the horrible things I have done in my life, that is the second most horrible. (The other horrible thing was something I did in college when I was an atheist in order to further my "career" and not be "distracted" by another little life.) I later repented about both horrible things - but I am still cut to the core by both, and that I stupidly ignored my own mother for 15 years because some dumb guys at Bethel who don't know anything about families want to make up rules that cause divisions. I could say, "oh well, I just did those two really bad things just out of ignorance." But that's not how repentance works. You still have to face the people you hurt, and you can't rewrite history.

 

For those 15 years that I ignored my mother, I had what seemed a "better" life in the eyes of many - pioneering, interviewed at convention/assembly, friends with the "popular" people, approval of the "important" people - but what good was it? It was a bunch of junk. It wasn't Jehovah's approval. It wasn't showing love. It was fake. What good are all the "sacrifices" we make supposedly "for Jehovah" when we are ignoring the Most Important Command of Jehovah?

 

Does Jehovah call that doing "better"? Jehovah, the Creator of the family, the One to whom every family owes its name - how did He feel that I ignored my mom for 15 years? I know how He feels. When I ignored her, it was like I was ignoring Him. I was not closer to Jehovah for ignoring my mom. I was further away. My kids didn't get to know her. She didn't get to be around her own grandkids. Jesus died and his ransom blood was enough, and I rejected it and instead embraced that false doctrine of imperfect men so that those imperfect men would give me "privileges" in the congregation.

 

It makes me sick to think about.

 

The Pharisees had a rule they called "corban". Jesus made clear how "corban" was viewed.

 

I am glad you are proud of your kids. You have had enough taken away from you - I will not state the obvious because I know it's too painful already.

 

Jehovah's name people is not the same as the corporation part. Jesus is going to allow the corporation part to be removed. When I point out the inconsistencies in doctrine and corruption in the organization, it's not out of hatred for people or out of a lack of gratitude for the good parts. It's because I keep seeing that T2 scene, and those are Jehovah's kids in the picture at Bethel. I know Jehovah is going to clean house. They are His Kids, it's His Name. He's warned them, it's been in the Bible for a long time. The greatest tribulation ever. And they don't even know where it's going to start, even though it's as clear as day in the Bible. Ignorance is not a good place to be.

 

As much as I wish you were right about the "ignorance" part on the corporation leaders, James, I know better. There are many in the organization who are just acting out of ignorance, of course, Jehovah knows and He will protect those ones to the degree possible. (Although it would be better for those ignorant ones if they weren't at Bethel - it would be less traumatic.) But there are many who are not acting out of ignorance. They are the ones Jesus foretold who act like some of the wicked Pharisees and scribes of old, and like Judas Iscariot. God's Word is true. There is a reason He's going to allow the nations to attack His Name People, just like there was a reason He allowed His Name People in Jerusalem to be attacked. There will be a faithful remnant saved.

 

I am glad your kids are not at Bethel. I love Jehovah's kids at Bethel, and it's just like in that movie scene - nobody can hear the warning. They are all deaf.

 

This "Happy at Bethel" video is fun but it makes me cry sometimes when I think about what is coming. I wish they would go back to their home congregations instead of staying at Bethel. The UN is going to destroy the Bethels.