The heavenly resurrection begins after the fall of Babylon the Great

[John 12.24to28]

It is so good to hear from you, @Witness!

 

I am sorry I misunderstood the reason why you weren't commenting. I hope you can figure out a way to comment again soon. Thank you for sharing what you think about.

 

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@Witness said: 

There is something that you should consider.  The "disgusting thing standing in the holy place" is not the UN (if that is what you said).  Remember, the anointed are the spiritual Temple of God (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)  The scriptures define "holy place" for us - Exod 26:33; Lev 16:20; 1 Kings 8:10, and many more.  Just type in "holy place".

 

Here is what Jesus said about "holy place" as recorded in Matthew 24:15:

 

"Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment)..."

 

Notice that Jesus didn't say "as spoken about by the apostle Paul" or "as spoken about by Moses" or "as spoken about by Ezekiel". 

 

(Of course, Paul wasn't a Christian yet anyway...) but the point is that many different Bible writers talked about a "holy place". Paul talked about anointed Christians being a living temple, a holy place for God to inhabit. Ezekiel talked about a holy place that was defiled, the temple of old in ancient Jerusalem. Ezekiel also talked about a future temple. Moses talked about the physical tabernacle.

 

How do we know whether Jesus was talking about a physical "holy place" or a spiritual "holy place"? Do we have to guess?

 

No. We do not have to guess. Jesus made it clear. "As spoken about in Daniel the prophet." 

 

Daniel did not talk about any spiritual temple holy place made up of anointed ones. Not even a little bit. Daniel's visions were about world powers and physical people on the earth and the places where they worshipped. When Daniel talked about things going on in heaven, it was always in the context of a dream or a vision - he never talked about physical people on earth "being" a holy place.

 

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@Witness said: 

The "disgusting thing" is also called the "abomination standing in the holy place".  This also, is defined by God's word.  An "abomination" that is committed in God's "holy place", is either through the presence of idols, or by "foreigners" entering the Temple, and the actions related to it.  Ezekiel 8:6,9; Ezek 44:6-9.  The elder body is the "disgusting thing"/abomination standing in the holy place.  They have replaced God's priests and act as if they are making sacrifices to God.

 

Similarly, as regards the word "abomination" or the words "disgusting thing", again, the context shows what Jesus was talking about. "As spoken about by Daniel the prophet."

 

Daniel never talked about an "abomination" or "disgusting thing" being apostate elders in the congregation. 

 

(True, Paul talked about the abomination of lawless ones sitting as gods in the temple of God, but those verses in Thessalonians are about the lawless apostates taking the lead in the organization, not about the UN. Those apostates in the organization will be removed when religion is attacked, because they will not be protected by Jehovah's angels. Jesus said in Revelation that when he comes he would remove such "Jezebels" - those who misuse their authority in the congregation in order to do wickedness.)

 

In Daniel chapters 7,8,11, and 12, Daniel references "abominations" or "disgusting things" and all of them are talking about physical governments doing something to a physical holy place or places or physical worshippers. Taken in harmony with what John said in Revelation, the disgusting thing spoken of in Daniel is the United Nations.

 

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@Witness said:

Again, the temple IS the anointed "living stones".  Anyone not anointed as "Israel", is a spiritual "Gentile".  (Rom 9:6-8)

 

@Witness, even if the "holy place" of Matthew 24:15 was the anointed, then what you are saying still doesn't make any sense. Some supposed "Gentiles" can't go into an anointed person and interfere with the holy spirit. 

 

If you think the "holy place" is the spiritual temple, then the physical "Gentiles" can't go in anyway. It's not possible. Either make the "holy place" a physical place or make it a figurative illustration or make it a spiritual place. It can't be both at once.

 

Here's the thing: Paul talked about a spiritual temple as an illustration. When we go to heaven and take our places in the kingdom, that's when we are part of the illustrative spiritual temple. While we are on earth, we are not "in" a spiritual temple. We are to be living stones, yes, we are being built up, yes, but it's not until after the marriage of the Lamb that the spiritual temple goes into effect. It's not possible.

 

Jesus is the Great High Priest, and he's already in heaven, but most of the anointed ones are still dead. Some of us are alive, but we're not spirit creatures. You can't have the spiritual temple in place until it's completed. It's not completed until the "stones" are all in place. It's not in place until all the anointed die and all the anointed are resurrected and all the anointed are raised to heaven. And that won't happen until after the fall of Babylon the Great during the great tribulation.

[Pudgy]

A decade and a half ago, when my children were teenagers, I had to work so I sent them to an assembly somewhere, a three day assembly that cost me $675 before it was all over.

When they finally got home late Sunday night, still in their suits, I asked them what did they learn? The reply was “oh…… Oh…… Oh yeah, we learned that …. you know …. what we used to think we knew about Nebuchadnezzar‘s Statue’s toes… Well it’s an entirely different explanation now, and it’s …. And at that point my eyes glazed over and I had a vision of US currency flapping like a bird, with six $100 bills and more into the night sky.

I am afraid I busted out laughing and almost fell off of my chair, and it’s only a vision of almost $700 evaporating that kept me I’m having a bad case of giggle fits.

Looking back on it, I realize I had an entirely inappropriate response for anyone who would like to be on good terms with his family.

The point I’m making by bringing his up is that all of the previous discussions, to me, are spending a great deal of time and effort to figure out things that are intrinsically unknowable. And even if we did know, if there’s absolutely nothing we can do about it it seems a cost benefit ratio analysis would be in order to determine is it really worth the effort?

I personally don’t care if the Nebuchadnezzar statue ever even had toes.

It may be incredibly important…… But for the life of me I cannot see how.

 

 

[John 12.24to28]

 

8 hours ago, Pudgy said:

A decade and a half ago, when my children were teenagers, I had to work so I sent them to an assembly somewhere, a three day assembly that cost me $675 before it was all over.

When they finally got home late Sunday night, still in their suits, I asked them what did they learn? The reply was “oh…… Oh…… Oh yeah, we learned that …. you know …. what we used to think we knew about Nebuchadnezzar‘s Statue’s toes… Well it’s an entirely different explanation now, and it’s …. And at that point my eyes glazed over and I had a vision of US currency flapping like a bird, with six $100 bills and more into the night sky.

I am afraid I busted out laughing and almost fell off of my chair, and it’s only a vision of almost $700 evaporating that kept me I’m having a bad case of giggle fits.

 

@Pudgy and Nathanael, cut of the same cloth...

 

"But Na·thanʹa·el said to him: “Can anything good come out of Nazʹa·reth?” Philip said to him: “Come and see." Jesus saw Na·thanʹa·el coming toward him and said about him: “See, truly an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”"

 

8 hours ago, Pudgy said:

 

 

It is written, "A calm heart gives life to the body" and "Who of you by being anxious can add one cubit to his life span?"

 

"What, me worry?"

 

(No wonder Alfred E. Neuman never ages!)

 

8 hours ago, Pudgy said:

When they finally got home late Sunday night, still in their suits, I asked them what did they learn? The reply was “oh…… Oh…… Oh yeah, we learned that …. you know …. what we used to think we knew about Nebuchadnezzar‘s Statue’s toes… Well it’s an entirely different explanation now, and it’s ….

 

(I'd say I hate to tell you, @Pudgy, but...)

 

 

The toes in the Daniel chapter 2 Nebuchadnezzar dream image thing are actually the United Nations.😃

 

"“And just as you saw the feet and the toes to be partly of clay of a potter and partly of iron, the kingdom will be divided, but some of the hardness of iron will be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with soft clay.  And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile.  Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people; but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay. 

 

“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever, just as you saw that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the clay, the silver, and the gold. The Grand God has made known to the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

[Pudgy]

So, how did the King use that information?

How can I make practical use of that information … I mean …. What? Buy a sky blue UN army helmet?

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

So, how did the King use that information?

How can I make practical use of that information … I mean …. What? Buy a sky blue UN army helmet?

 

You have three children in the truth, correct?

 

Here are some screenshots from two of the most recent videos posted on jw.org.

 

 

The governing body is saying that they are the voice of Jesus.

 

They are also saying that obeying direction from the branch is the way to be saved in the days ahead.

 

They did a partial quote of a Bible verse: "Your strength will be in showing trust." The part they left out is the trust in Jehovah part. They are saying "trust in the men of the governing body because they are Jesus' voice."

 

They are wrong about the governing body being Jesus' voice. They are liars. The way to be saved is to trust in Jehovah. Jehovah is obviously not using the governing body as Jesus' voice because they don't even know who the toes on the dream image are, and yet some little unimportant disfellowshipped person from nowhere can understand because Jesus doesn't give the spirit of understanding based on a theocratic resume, that Jehovah may get the glory and Jehovah may be praised.

 

When the branch gives direction that is in harmony with God's Word, then great, yes, listen to that specific direction that is in harmony with God's Word. "Commit your way to Jehovah" is good advice. Following the scriptures is always good advice.

 

(There is an assembly scheduled for tomorrow in my circuit. It is called "Jehovah's United Family". I am attending because they are my family, those people that are shunning me. They are foolish for shunning me, (I have kept my integrity) but they are just ignorantly listening to the doctrines of men, and someday they will repent. May Jehovah give me strength. I am attending because it is not unreasonable for men taking the lead to schedule such assemblies, even though I know half of what they teach will be a lie and no one there will talk to me because they will label me worthy of shunning. The men taking the lead are not united nor do they unite families. Jehovah's Word unites families. I do not take my children to the local congregation even though they ended the trespassing ban because I cannot stomach them learning that it is okay to talk to the children but not their own mother, I went once to show I could do it with Jehovah's strength and sang confidently and refused to say "Amen" to the prayer, but I will not go to the local congregation again until the wolves who disfellowshipped me are gone. I will go to the assembly, please pray for me.)

 

But if the branch gives direction that is not in harmony with God's Word, like to listen to imperfect men ahead of Jehovah's Word, then no, one would not want to listen to that direction. That direction is dangerous. God's Word is the Source of Truth, not the manmade doctrines and decrees of those who brazenly disregard God's Word. "There is no wisdom, nor discernment, nor counsel in opposition to Jehovah. The horse is prepared for the day of battle, But salvation belongs to Jehovah."

 

If the governing body doesn't even know that the toes of the Nebuchadnezzar dream image are the UN, if the governing body doesn't know that Jesus didn't take the throne in 1914, if the governing body doesn't know that accepting blood fractions is a sin, then how are they going to give direction that helps the congregation during the great tribulation?

 

@Pudgy, they are the blind leading the blind. They are going to fall into a pit.

 

When the great tribulation starts, your kids are going to be in shock. They are going to be afraid. They are going to go through a difficult time emotionally because much of what they put their trust in will seem to be shaken. They love Jehovah, yes, but their ways of worshipping Him have been all mixed up with worship of the governing body. We know what that is like - waking up. It's not easy, and it takes time to come to grips with the fact that the governing body has been lying on many things all these years.

 

A lot of people are going to wake up all at once and they're going to need help not losing faith in Jehovah.

 

I'm afraid you can't retire, @Pudgy. You're going to be the one who has to help your family because your knowledge of truth is "better" than theirs is. You have practical wisdom, and you have scriptural understanding. They're going to need you. You tell the truth, and they're going to need to hear it.

 

Summary: Practical application - "Then he said to them: “That being the case, every public instructor who is taught about the Kingdom of the heavens is like a man, the master of the house, who brings out of his treasure store things both new and old.”"

 

"Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our trials so that we may be able to comfort others in any sort of trial with the comfort that we receive from God."

 

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

So, how did the King use that information?

How can I make practical use of that information … I mean …. What? Buy a sky blue UN army helmet?

 

Nah, I'd definitely skip out on the sky blue UN army helmet. Just like Jehovah has a better chariot, so He also has better armor for His soldiers...(Praise Jehovah.🥰) I like how the illustrators in the organization portray it:

 

"Stand firm, therefore, with the belt of truth fastened around your waist, wearing the breastplate of righteousness,  and having your feet shod in readiness to declare the good news of peace.  Besides all of this, take up the large shield of faith, with which you will be able to extinguish all the wicked one’s burning arrows.  Also, accept the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, that is, God’s word,  while with every form of prayer and supplication you carry on prayer on every occasion in spirit. And to that end stay awake, constantly making supplication in behalf of all the holy ones.  Pray also for me, that the words may be given to me when I open my mouth, so that I may be able to speak boldly in making known the sacred secret of the good news,  for which I am acting as an ambassador in chains, and that I may speak about it with boldness, as I ought to speak."

 

 

"Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.  For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.  Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.  But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves,  for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness. So, then, let us not sleep on as the rest do, but let us stay awake and keep our senses.  For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night.  But as for us who belong to the day, let us keep our senses and put on the breastplate of faith and love and the hope of salvation as a helmet because God assigned us, not to wrath, but to the acquiring of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.  He died for us, so that whether we stay awake or are asleep, we should live together with him.  Therefore, keep encouraging one another and building one another up, just as you are in fact doing."

 

[Pudgy]

Well…. WHATEVER Nebuchadnezzar’s toes mean  … it is Not worth $675.

[John 12.24to28]

12 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

Well…. WHATEVER Nebuchadnezzar’s toes mean  … it is Not worth $675.

 

Amen! 😁

 

"And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free."

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

  … it is Not worth $675.

 

FD$ = WTBT$ = $🤑🖤

"Now the Pharisees, who were money lovers, were listening to all these things, and they began to sneer at him.  So he said to them: “You are those who declare yourselves righteous before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is considered exalted by men is a disgusting thing in God’s sight."

 

(I used to donate faithfully every week to the "Faithful and Discreet Slave", but since they tried to cut me off from the organization and I saw their true colors now I only send them donations in coconut, since I heard they like coconut. Speaking of colors, I'll be wearing a coconut colored outfit at the assembly tomorrow - a dress that is coconut colors and some coconut smelling lotion, just to show support for coconut lovers in my family everywhere...)

 

 

I am one of Jehovah's witnesses. Jehovah is the One who invented humor. 😃 Jehovah is our Refuge. We will be Happy in His Arms.

 

"Why are the nations agitated

And the peoples muttering an empty thing?  

The kings of the earth take their stand 

And high officials gather together as one 

Against Jehovah and against his anointed one.  

They say: “Let us tear off their shackles 

And throw off their ropes!”  

The One enthroned in the heavens will laugh; 

Jehovah will scoff at them.  

At that time he will speak to them in his anger 

And terrify them in his burning anger, 

Saying: “I myself have installed my king 

On Zion, my holy mountain.”  

Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah; 

He said to me: “You are my son; 

Today I have become your father.  

Ask of me, and I will give nations as your inheritance 

And the ends of the earth as your possession.  

You will break them with an iron scepter, 

And you will smash them like a piece of pottery.”  

So now, you kings, show insight; 

Accept correction, you judges of the earth.  

Serve Jehovah with fear, 

And rejoice with trembling.  

Honor the son, or God will become indignant 

And you will perish from the way, 

For His anger flares up quickly.  

Happy are all those taking refuge in Him."💖

[Pudgy]

There is a several thousand year history of Jehovah’s Witnesses before Charles Taze Russell was ever born.

[John 12.24to28]

21 minutes ago, boyle said:

3 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

if the governing body doesn't know that Jesus didn't take the throne in 1914

Can you prove this? It appears you are making another absolute statement as though you have concrete evidence, so let's hear it.

 

@boyle, Jesus is the one who makes it clear by means of the holy spirit, the helper.

 

"He answered them: “I told you already, and yet you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? You do not want to become his disciples also, do you?”

 

 

 

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, boyle said:

4 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Just like Jehovah has a better chariot, so He also has better armor for His soldiers.

Yet a soldier that behaves like a soldier gets kicked out, lol! This doesn't make any sense coming from you.

2 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

I am one of Jehovah's witnesses. Jehovah is the One who invented humor. 😃 Jehovah is our Refuge. We will be Happy in His Arms.

Does this mean you are in good standing with the Org? The way you disparage the GB, I seriously doubt you are. Care to prove me wrong?

 

Jehovah hasn't kicked me out of His congregation, the body of Christ, just like He didn't kick out my Lord, Christ Jesus.

 

Jesus was kicked out of the physical organization by wicked apostates on the elder body. The same one that kicked out my Lord is the one who kicked me out. 

 

Jesus showed who their father was.

 

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness. These things it was necessary to do, yet not to disregard the other things.  Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel! 

 

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of greediness and self-indulgence.  Blind Pharisee, cleanse first the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may also become clean. 

 

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness.  In the same way, on the outside you appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

 

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you build the graves of the prophets and decorate the tombs of the righteous ones, and you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have shared with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’  Therefore, you are testifying against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.  Well, then, fill up the measure of your forefathers. 

 

“Serpents, offspring of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of Ge·henʹna?  For this reason, I am sending to you prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them you will kill and execute on stakes, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,  so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.  Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation."

 

When the "org" "disfellowships" Jehovah's kids, they are filling up the measure of their forefathers.

 

Jehovah's witnesses are not a business corporation. Those men have made it a cave of robbers. Jehovah sending Jesus soon to remedy things.

 

Praise Jehovah.

 

How did Jesus address the wicked scribes and wicked Pharisees? "Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me.  Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to my word.  You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.  Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me.  Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me?  The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God."

 

The governing body "rejected" me because I stood fast by my Lord Christ Jesus. They literally sent back one of my many many letters with a red stamp on it marked "rejected". I came to them in Jehovah's Name and in company with Christ.

 

(It wasn't me they were rejecting.)

 

Some of the Pharisees knew they messed up big when Jesus was resurrected. It will be the same when Jehovah gathers all His faithful sheep and removes the wolves from the organization that is bearing His Name. Jehovah will act for the sake of His Holy Name, and for the sake of His Beloved Little Sheep. Praise Jehovah.