WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"

[Witness]

1 hour ago, xero said:

Yes there are company men. I am not.

Don't you own the "Shepherding the Flock of God", book?  Aren't you guided by that book during judicial matters?

Do you give talks from outlines that you must adhere to?

Do you collect "time"?

Are you in charge of the donations?

What are your jobs as an elder?

If you don't do any of this, then no...you are not a company man, and soon will not be an elder.

 

 

[xero]

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

Don't twist my words Elder.

There in no organisation serving God properly right now, BUT, that does not mean there are no 'people' serving God properly right now.

However YOUR GB tell the Anointed NOT TO GATHER TOGETHER.  So who is at fault there ? 

As a side note : When Russell 'ruled'  the Watchtower, he said there was no need for an organisation.  And he was the foundation of your Org.

Quote "The reason you give is that they are all imperfect." 

I never gave that reason. That is you twisting words Elder.  You see Elder, you are just a servant of the GB and the Org, and your words here prove that. 

I think it is very sad that you find it necessary to twist my words. But unfortunately the GB & Co have brainwashed you to a point where you do not recognise truth anymore it seems. Either that or you prefer to put lies in the place of truth. 

Sometimes what people call twisting words, is simply a clarification.

So you agree that it's absolutely wrong for people to go to a church/kingdom hall/synagogue/mosque to worship. Instead they should go it alone?

What about the scripture which says "He that is isolating himself seeks his own selfish longing..."?

What about not forsaking the gathering together as some have the custom?

It would seem that you're encouraging both.

If you don't want that, you should at least start a meetup group to consider your spiritual interests with others on a regular basis.

[xero]

33 minutes ago, Witness said:

Don't you own the "Shepherding the Flock of God", book?  Aren't you guided by that book during judicial matters?

Do you give talks from outlines that you must adhere to?

Do you collect "time"?

Are you in charge of the donations?

What are your jobs as an elder?

If you don't do any of this, then no...you are not a company man, and soon will not be an elder.

 

 

I've done all of these, however in all these there's flexibility. Anyone who's been an elder understands this. As regards time, I've always had issues w/time as a measurement, all the other elders I know understand this as well. It doesn't indicate spirituality. Also some have social anxiety (very hard for a JW). I rebelled for a time in my own way by not signing up to auxiliary pioneer, and then turn in (really did the time) in excess of the time required. This I did just to irritate some elders.

I told them I was that guy who said he wouldn't go into the vineyard, but did anyway. Besides I was obviously there for evening meetings for FS (so the argument for being encouraging was moot - physical presence is certainly encouraging). I just felt that these announcements as to who was auxiliary pioneering this month was becoming a bit like trumpeting ones' gifts of mercy and having one's reward in full and I felt the giving in secret was better.

What were they to do. Tell me I was a horrid individual for putting in auxiliary pioneer time, while not signing a paper?

I felt that this was between me and Jehovah, so sure, afterwards I reported my time.

As a measurement of FS, check. As a genuflecting to men. Not so much.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, xero said:

I rebelled for a time in my own way by not signing up to auxiliary pioneer, and then turn in (really did the time) in excess of the time required. This I did just to irritate some elders.

I know a JW brother who has done regular pioneering service for years without an appointment. But he wanted that appointment so badly, and the elders refused to give it to him. One year (1985) he went to Belgrade, then there was the Chief Bethel for Yugoslavia. After talks with the main representative, Brother Miloš, the Zagreb elders and Zagreb's Bethel were influenced, and he was finally appointed.

1 hour ago, xero said:

I told them I was that guy who said he wouldn't go into the vineyard, but did anyway.

:)))

1 hour ago, xero said:

meetings for FS (so the argument for being encouraging was moot - physical presence is certainly encouraging)

One elder in ex congregation doing similar. He came to a meeting for FS, gave a speech and then went home or for some other job :))

[xero]

9 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I know a JW brother who has done regular pioneering service for years without an appointment. But he wanted that appointment so badly, and the elders refused to give it to him. One year (1985) he went to Belgrade, then there was the Chief Bethel for Yugoslavia. After talks with the main representative, Brother Miloš, the Zagreb elders and Zagreb's Bethel were influenced, and he was finally appointed.

:)))

One elder in ex congregation doing similar. He came to a meeting for FS, gave a speech and then went home or for some other job :))

You missed the point. I went w/everyone in FS. It's not like I conducted and went home. I've always liked FS. I felt that I'd rather do FS than go to meetings.

I miss the bookstudies too. We had one for years in my house. I could entertain all sorts of off the wall discussions and it was great.

[Srecko Sostar]

3 minutes ago, xero said:

You missed the point. I went w/everyone in FS. It's not like I conducted and went home.

I didn't say that about you. :))   

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 2/17/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

So you agree that it's absolutely wrong for people to go to a church/kingdom hall/synagogue/mosque to worship. Instead they should go it alone?

11am UK time. I put on my computer and i have 16 notifications from this forum. Oh dear, and this rubbish is the first comment I read. (If I miss anyone's comments, sorry but 16 comments are a bit much right now).

Elder, I can see you are both dishonest and a wind up merchant just looking for trouble. Either that or you just don't like English people. Whichever, maybe you should remember that the only 'authority' you have is over your own congregation.

But i suppose I will waste a couple of minutes answering you, because the weather isn't good enough for me to go work on one of my vehicles.  Right :- 

Nowhere have I said what other ordinary people should or should not do. I personally do not care if people go to a 'church' of their choice to meet together and worship in their own way. And like i say Elder, you are just following your GB and tribe in twisting words. 

What i said was, that no organinisation is serving GOD PROPERLY at this time. But if people wish to continue with their religious gatherings, that it their choice. Who am i to tell them not to.

Now, YOU SAID So you agree that it's absolutely wrong.. Tell me then, who would I be agreeing with ?  You must be suggesting that others are saying those things. To 'agree' with someting, there has to be another person saying it.

However, I do not agree with you idea here. And it does seem to be YOUR IDEA as i don't see the idea coming from anyone else.

BUT, I'll repeat one thing. Your GB tells the Anointed NOT TO GATHER TOGETHER, to the point that your GB say the Anointed would be WORKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT if they did gather together for worship or Bible study. 

So you think on that, maybe that is where you are getting your idea from.

I do think that genuine Christians should communicate with other genuine Christians, but probably not in person right now, as many countries are in 'lock down' due to covid-19.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

22 hours ago, xero said:

I miss the bookstudies too. We had one for years in my house. I could entertain all sorts of off the wall discussions and it was great.

And that is probably why they stopped the study. Oh dear, the bosses were losing control.  It was the one meeting per week that people could actually 'be themselves' and talk almost openly. 

[xero]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

11am UK time. I put on my computer and i have 16 notifications from this forum. Oh dear, and this rubbish is the first comment I read. (If I miss anyone's comments, sorry but 16 comments are a bit much right now).

Elder, I can see you are both dishonest and a wind up merchant just looking for trouble. Either that or you just don't like English people. Whichever, maybe you should remember that the only 'authority' you have is over your own congregation.

But i suppose I will waste a couple of minutes answering you, because the weather isn't good enough for me to go work on one of my vehicles.  Right :- 

Nowhere have I said what other ordinary people should or should not do. I personally do not care if people go to a 'church' of their choice to meet together and worship in their own way. And like i say Elder, you are just following your GB and tribe in twisting words. 

What i said was, that no organinisation is serving GOD PROPERLY at this time. But if people wish to continue with their religious gatherings, that it their choice. Who am i to tell them not to.

Now, YOU SAID So you agree that it's absolutely wrong.. Tell me then, who would I be agreeing with ?  You must be suggesting that others are saying those things. To 'agree' with someting, there has to be another person saying it.

However, I do not agree with you idea here. And it does seem to be YOUR IDEA as i don't see the idea coming from anyone else.

BUT, I'll repeat one thing. Your GB tells the Anointed NOT TO GATHER TOGETHER, to the point that your GB say the Anointed would be WORKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT if they did gather together for worship or Bible study. 

So you think on that, maybe that is where you are getting your idea from.

I do think that genuine Christians should communicate with other genuine Christians, but probably not in person right now, as many countries are in 'lock down' due to covid-19.

So you agree w/me that people should NOT forsake the gathering of themselves together or isolate themselves?

For me, I'm trying to get past all the long phrases, changes in font sizes and colors along with bolding to get to a simple answer to what appears to me to be a simple question.

I was thinking in addition, so if there are people who profess to be anointed and these understand the importance of gathering themselves together and these don't. One would imagine this to be on them for failure to obey.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I put on my computer and i have 16 notifications from this forum.

16 notifications??!!!    You’re joking!

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But i suppose I will waste a couple of minutes answering you, because the weather isn't good enough for me to go work on one of my vehicles.

Are you kidding me? This appears to be your life obsession.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

BUT, I'll repeat one thing. Your GB tells the Anointed NOT TO GATHER TOGETHER, 

Walking my beat here in Adhominemville, I saw two of them skulking together. “None of that, now! Move along, NOW!!” I barked.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And that is probably why they stopped the study. Oh dear, the bosses were losing control.  It was the one meeting per week that people could actually 'be themselves' and talk almost openly. 

Not when I was conducting! “Alright, you’ve got you dose of mind-control!! You are forbidden to discuss it! Just go do it! And I’d better not hear otherwise!” That’s what I would tell them.

You are so paranoid.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

11 hours ago, xero said:

So you agree w/me that people should NOT forsake the gathering of themselves together or isolate themselves?

You seem to be 'almost' quoting from Hebrews here so lets look at Hebrews. 

HEBREWS 3 : 1 

 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus.

Take note of this verse. It proves that the writing known as Hebrews, was written to the Anointed.

HEBREWS 10 : 24 &25

And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, ²⁵  not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.

So this is a message to the Anointed ones, the remnant.  Instructing them to meet together. 

Now read this quote from your GB.  paragraph 8 The Watchtower—Study Edition  |  January 2016

“We Want to Go With You”

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-january-2016/we-want-to-go-with-you/

⁸ In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study. (Gal. 1:15-17) Such efforts would cause divisions within the congregation and work against the holy spirit, which promotes peace and unity.

So, work it out for yourself who is wrong. The Apostle Paul through holy spirit says to the Anointed, not to forsake meeting together. BUT your GB says that the Anointed do not, or should not, meet together. Your GB even threaten that it would be working against the Holy Spirit. 

But please remember that scripture is written to and for the Anointed remnant. 

 

[xero]

24 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

You seem to be 'almost' quoting from Hebrews here so lets look at Hebrews. 

HEBREWS 3 : 1 

 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus.

Take note of this verse. It proves that the writing known as Hebrews, was written to the Anointed.

HEBREWS 10 : 24 &25

And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, ²⁵  not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.

So this is a message to the Anointed ones, the remnant.  Instructing them to meet together. 

Now read this quote from your GB.  paragraph 8 The Watchtower—Study Edition  |  January 2016

“We Want to Go With You”

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-january-2016/we-want-to-go-with-you/

⁸ In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study. (Gal. 1:15-17) Such efforts would cause divisions within the congregation and work against the holy spirit, which promotes peace and unity.

So, work it out for yourself who is wrong. The Apostle Paul through holy spirit says to the Anointed, not to forsake meeting together. BUT your GB says that the Anointed do not, or should not, meet together. Your GB even threaten that it would be working against the Holy Spirit. 

But please remember that scripture is written to and for the Anointed remnant. 

 

The onus is on you to suggest this scripture is for some special class of self-appointed (or otherwise people), moreover this scripture is echoing the wisdom from the hebrew scriptures on the same matter.

It strikes me that you're really into the idea that magical-crown-wearing people exist and somehow should be given preference for their declarations that they have magical-crowns.

If anyone wants to get together and they feel they are superfine apostles, they can certainly do this, but I think this cult-within-a-cult of those initiated into the sanctum-sanctorum is a bit fat mistake. That's what I think this is about.