IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

I feel the law is acting unjustly by retroactively blaming organizations when they themselves were to blame for the confusion in the first place. 

I can agree with your comment about issue.  

This sentence I singled out is very reminiscent of how WTJWorg blaming its members because they, reportedly/allegedly, didn’t understand what was written in the publications, so they began to believe in something they themselves thought was written in magazines (1975 is a great example from history that even today is part of JW talks in congregations and on JWTV).

[Arauna]

11 hours ago, César Chávez said:

that person needs to get educated in order to have the proper knowledge before embarrassing themselves as a supposed witness.

Yes, we all have experience of judicial committees.... lol.

Your other words also indicate that we must shut up if we have not been on a committee.   So where will I learn about this as a silly woman hmmm....? Will you teach me? .. when you distainfully shut me up or  expect me to say nothing or get off the forum?   

OR will you patiently explain things here on the forum and NOT  expect  people to dutifully shut up?  I learn a lot from you but what you have  shamelessly said over the last few days, does not indicate wisdom by NOT looking at things also from another persons perspective.  You remind me of the pharisees - all law, and no love. You have to learn to tone down the harshness and one-sidedness. I look past that because I like to learn things - no matter from which mouth it comes , ........ I am not just speaking for myself here.

On this forum is not just about having experts on a matter talking.  If the forum was merely for experts arguing "cases" then where would us ordinary folk go?  

I do not want to share photographs of myself on other media or talk about car racing, clothes, or some other silly subject. I come here to get my mind stimulated to get something new to think about ...... not to be an expert..... or to be perfect..... If I wanted oversight I would go to the "closed" part of the forum. 

Yes - there are those who are  silly sometimes... even sloppy.....(I feel entitled to be, having worked hard my whole life)...... but this is made up for by others with extreme puffiness, commedians, bad tempered and deviant  experts and others with extreme hate-OCD.  

There are people on here that would not believe even if christ himself spoke to them from heaven by e-mail.... they would think it is a despicable  JW prodding  them..... their prejudice is immutable. They think the JW organization should be run the way THEY think it should be run and will always find some handy element to critisize as long as they live ....... no matter how reasonable the arguments....... because they themselves cannot put themselves in any other persons shoes. They are highly flawed but do not know it.  Put those very same people in a position of leadership and all justice will disappear because they have no clue about righteousness or justice. 

[Arauna]

5 hours ago, Thinking said:

Agreeing with anEx Jw on certain matters  does not make one their Alia..it’s just acknowledging a fact that may be correct in a certain issue at a certain time.

When one works with people one should validate their feelings..... and afterward correct.them..... that is the loving way to do it. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

23 hours ago, xero said:

Making anyone a mandated reporter...just what we need, more Karen's bothering people because they are not happy if someone isn't as miserable as they are

NOW THIS IS WHAT A CURRENT ELDER THINK OF CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE IN JW ORG CONGREGATIONS.  AS I'VE SAID BEFORE THE ORG JUST LOOK AT VICTIMS OF CSA AS BEING COLLATERAL DAMAGE. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

22 hours ago, César Chávez said:

when witnesses don't understand the laws of the land,

JWs or not, the laws of the land are different in different Lands. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

22 hours ago, César Chávez said:

When did Jesus make it known, every sit down with the apostles were supposed to be a public forum or disclosure.

Mathew 18 : 16 & 17

But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'every word may be strengthened upon the testimony of two or three witnesses.'And if he fails to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he fails to listen to even to the church, let him be to you as the pagan and the tax collector.

Or NWT

“Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault* between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. ¹⁶  But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter* may be established.p ¹⁷  If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nationsq and as a tax collector.

We are not talking about everyday conversation, we are talking about SIN in the congregation. 

Also i think the apostle Paul made it known  

1 Corrinthians 5 v 1

Actually sexual immoralitya is reported among you, and such immorality as is not even found among the nations—of a man living with his father’s wife.

So, once again it seems your GB / Org do not obey scripture 'as they see it', because they do it all in secret. 

We are not talking Data protection here, we are talking obeying God. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

22 hours ago, Arauna said:

I feel the law is acting unjustly by retroactively blaming organizations when they themselves were to blame for the confusion in the first place.

But how do you feel about the GB / Lawyers not handing over the 25 year Pedophile database in USA ?

How do you feel that here in UK the UK Bethel didn't want to hand over their Pedophile information, to the point that the info' was only handed over (o rmaybe only a small amount of the info') after the court told them to ?

How do you feel the GB Layews that have deliberately lied in courtrooms ? 

How do you feel about Elders using clergy penitent privilege in court ? 

how do you feel about compensation being paid to victims of CSA in the JW Org / Watchtower ? 

Those are important points, because those points will show how much of a 'Christian' you are. 

[Srecko Sostar]

34 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Mathew 18 : 16 & 17

But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'every word may be strengthened upon the testimony of two or three witnesses.'And if he fails to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he fails to listen to even to the church, let him be to you as the pagan and the tax collector.

Or NWT

“Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault* between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. ¹⁶  But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter* may be established.p ¹⁷  If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nationsq and as a tax collector.

We are not talking about everyday conversation, we are talking about SIN in the congregation. 

Also i think the apostle Paul made it known  

1 Corrinthians 5 v 1

Actually sexual immoralitya is reported among you, and such immorality as is not even found among the nations—of a man living with his father’s wife.

So, once again it seems your GB / Org do not obey scripture 'as they see it', because they do it all in secret. 

We are not talking Data protection here, we are talking obeying God. 

Many of us here know how GB and elders in JW congregations interpreting, how these verses in Mat 18 is about "minor sins". All "gross sins" must be reported to elders (not to police or other secular authorities).  

In such way of interpretation JW people can't apply verses 15 and 16 for "serious sin". 

But they are in obligation to apply verse 17 for "serious sin". Is CSA "serious sin" (or crime)? In WTJWorg interpretations that is matter for elders first/primarily. Only recently Organization gave permission to members to report that same thing (CSA) to secular governments. 

Now, is lying or stealing "serious sin"? What items from Chapter 18 do JW members apply in such a case? Do they report that to police, or only to elders? Or they are free to handle that individually?

By now i see how Shepherd book (2019) speaking about things as fraud, slander, manslaughter, to some level connected with some sort of notification to/from secular authorities, and specifically/only about CSA in connection with secular governments and reporting.

All in all question you made is proper: What do they (GB) obey? And what they teaching members to obey?

 

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

Yes, we all have experience of judicial committees.... lol.

I sincerely hope our boy has never sat in on judicial committees. On the other hand, if he has, that will make identification a snap.

Look for the congregation with 2000% turnover and the job is done.

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

WHAT A CURRENT ELDER THINK OF CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE I

This is why I think it is a waste of time talking to people like you . You accuse before you think.   You never think of implications - only what you see in front of you. 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 minute ago, Arauna said:

This is why I think it is a waste of time talking to people like you . You accuse before you think.   You never think of implications - only what you see in front of you. 

When time travel is invented, historical revisionists will give a friendly wave to American forefather slaveholders as they race past them to bring the real arch-fiends, the Ancient Greek pedophiles, on whom Western society is based, back in leg-irons.

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

nce again it seems your GB / Org do not obey scripture 'as they see it', because they do it all in secret.

This was talking about a mother and son sleeping together which was shocking. It came to Paul's ears.  This scripture does not mean that we must go around reporting on people whom we suspect of having done something wrong.... which you seem to imply.  

It is common knowledge that child sex abuse ALWAYS happens in secret....... because it is predatory behavior and a CRIME!   Similar to a planned murder, these  people's consciences know it is wrong and therefore cover their tracks.  If you did not know this then please go read up about this.