Conscience individual and collective

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, xero said:

ʎɐʍ sᴉɥʇ ʇᴉ op plnoɔ I ɹO

Not a problem

[Anna]

3 hours ago, xero said:

ʎɐʍ sᴉɥʇ ʇᴉ op plnoɔ I ɹO

Please no, that gave me a headache

[xero]

42 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Not a problem

My boss said I remind her of him.

[xero]

43 minutes ago, Anna said:

Please no, that gave me a headache

I worked w/this guy who was pretty unusual. I remember helping him put a standard transmission in to replace the automatic he had. I was working w/him and tried witnessing to him and thought if I helped him along with his car it would mean more to him. He smoked a lot of weed and it was sort of weird going to meetings after being in his apartment because my clothes smelled of weed (which sort of tickled me to get some looks). But anyway, what was unusual about him was that in his weeded up state, he thought it would be a good skill to learn to read books upside down, so he'd sit in the break area reading everything upside down. He was pretty good at it.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

That's the problem when you want to overextend the premise to mean something out of context. If you consider it, then you mislead with the intent. Therefore, your assumption is, That King was already evil at the age of 12. He did evil in the eyes of God. Was it a subtle process? Was, he coerced into evil at a young age. That's not the point. The point is, he spilled innocent blood, which needed to be addressed by God.

The same point that ex-witnesses need to consider, with their personal hate and criticism. Especially, if people were baptized. Baptism is a personal "promise" you make to God. He holds that promise dearly. Anyone, breaking that promise, by whatever means, God needs to address it, especially if a person continues to be unrepentant. 

That in essence is an individuals collective conscience.

.... you want to overextend the premise to mean something out of context

What is over-expanded here? The discussion is about “individual and collective conscience”. In what individual and collective environment, state of moral, ethics, upbringing and guidance of the individual did the future king grow? 

So, does a man become bad "overnight"? Or is it a process? If Manasseh has been exposed to corrupt people since his birth, yes, then it is possible that at the age of 12 he too was like his “teachers”. There is ambiguity in the biblical text which in two opening verses establishes two facts and connects them in a strange way (the child becomes king and that king is bad). The text does not establish that the child is bad, but that the king is bad. Who is the king? It is the child 12 years old. 

But for our discussion is irrelevant, does my opinion about that unknown details for king is possible or not.  Important for the discussion are elements such as; what conscience the 12-year-old king had, how and why his conscience developed in a negative direction. How other people contributed to this in his childhood and youth and in the later period of his life, etc.

How many ex-JWs became drug addicts, drunkards, thieves, idolaters, etc. after leaving WTJWorg? So, what kind of claims do you want to make here? And how do you want (if you want) to compare Manasseh and ex-JW?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

16 hours ago, César Chávez said:

The same point that ex-witnesses need to consider, with their personal hate and criticism. Especially, if people were baptized. Baptism is a personal "promise" you make to God.

So why doesn't the Org baptise people properly then ? In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, as Jesus gave instruction. 

And actually it is dedication you make to God not baptism. 

[Witness]

6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Dedication is the act of consecrating an altar, temple, church, or other sacred building. I

 

6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Before you can get baptized, there are a few other things you need to do. As we learned earlier, you must dedicate yourself to God.

I really don't enjoy responding to your flammable messages, but you have just put your foot in your mouth, by aiding in validating JW idolatry.  

This is the dedication made during JW baptism ceremony, which is IDOLATRY:

“Do you understand that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with Jehovah’s organization?”

Is this organization the path of salvation?  Is it so sacred that it requires acknowledgement of your identity and dedication?  Your Wt quote says one should dedicate their lives to God.  Looks like their is a confusing issue here.  Why is it necessary to mention the organization during baptism? Does the idol need to be acknowledged?   This isn't what Jesus decreed.  

We can let another Wt quote, clear it up:

"As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." wt/90/11/1

 

6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Is Catholic your new religion? That you literally need to hear the words?

What did Jesus say to do? What were his words?   Matt 28:19,20

6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Since, you continue to blaspheme against God's Holy Spirit?

If one follows what Christ commanded, they are not the ones blaspheming against God's Holy Spirit.    

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Your perspective is not someone else's.

Correct.

7 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Can a person become bad overnight? Yes!

If person unintentionally participate in car accident with someone death, person is not automatically bad but what happened is bad. In other possible situation, person is attacked by robber and in attempt to protect himself he causes robber death. Is person bad automatically? Or is outcome of that situation bad?   

You state, here, how person become bad overnight, but in speaking about Manasseh you gave another way of process.

7 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Someone out of rage can murder another.

Correct. What that speaking about person? Whether he was born bad, become bad overnight or become corrupt over time?

7 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Did Manasseh become corrupt over time? Most likely, out of hate and power.

You speaking about ex-JW as full of hate and criticism. In your opinion, did they become that overnight or over time? Are you claiming that every ex-JW is full of hatred?

 

[xero]

BTW Good paper I'm reading right now:

https://www.academia.edu/33873583/Did_Jesus_Je_HoVaH_salvation_know_God_s_name?email_work_card=view-paper

 

[xero]

Here's another, same guy. I believe he's a witness.

https://www.academia.edu/3290630/Dating_the_Biblical_Chronology

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Good evening. I just popped in to see Billy the Kid crying as usual. Writing things that are totally wrong but it makes her feel good anyway. I can't understand how a Christian could defend an organisation for directly disobeying Jesus Christ. But then the JW Org / CCJW has continued to disobey Christ by going beyond the things written and predicting Armageddon a dozen times, and of course hiding Pedophiles in those orgs.  

[JW Insider]

17 hours ago, xero said:

I believe he's a witness.

Yes. Unfortunately, I believe he has been "threatened" in different ways by both "academia" (not academia.edu) and by the WTS. His bio on Academia.edu shows how his Doctoral thesis was rejected because of his religion, considered fundamentalist by the university:

In 2005, I took a Master's degree in Biblical Hebrew with Dominique Gonnet: https://www.sources-chretiennes.mom.fr/index.php?pageid=equipe&id=966 and I started a thesis in archaeology and history of ancient worlds at the Maison de l'Orient, University of Lyon 2, under the supervision of Professor Pierre Villard. —December 2007. The defense of my thesis was postponed to an undetermined date when my thesis director was informed of my religion. He nevertheless agreed to transfer it to INALCO under the supervision of Daniel Bodi. —December 2009. The defense was cancelled when the director of the doctoral school opposed my registration by explaining to my thesis director that she did not want her university to endorse a “fundamentalist”.