Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?

[Space Merchant]

@ApostaBabe Linda James It its more than fear. All men are imperfect, I would not say all of the faith community, however, no one is immune to levels of desperation, the unaware tends to break far more faster than those who are aware. However, not too sure of the Extremism part granted, I haven't see anything of the such, desperation, yes, but to become an Extremist, not quite. I say this because I have dealt with Extremists many times myself.

But we are in a situation where religious faith in of itself, even the education at home is being replaced by ideas coming from the actual threat itself.

[Space Merchant]

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg addressed the topic of “prophets” in their Insight encyclopedia. I went to their site to be reminded of what they wrote. Of course, JWs tend to use a certain term in a way and in a model that suits them in a particular situation.

The term for Prophet is no different from what it actually is, as is the root.  A Prophet in general is someone who is under divine Will, making The Most High's Purpose known to the people; it derives from the Hebrew word navi', which can mean the following Prophet, Spokesman, and to credit @Dmitar since he brought it up, a Seer. How the term was used, especially in the Hebrew Old Testament, as is some parts of the New Greek Testament, the distinction of actually True Prophets inspired was conveyed differently, meaning that these Prophets were not of ordinary kind, for they were proclaimers, spokesmen for God Almighty, speaking his Word to the people; hence making it known.

Granted this is what a Prophet is, concerning what the JWs said, it exactly that, granted what a Prophet is, as mentioned to you already is common knowledge - as seen according to them, shown below:

 

 

So the notion of it being common knowledge is very evident in the following example below:

 

Whether the information is brief, or, to your dismay, in full detail, there is no change or shift in what the term, relates to.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

A “normal JW” will never use the term “prophet” on himself, but most often “witness”, “announcer”, "publisher" and the like.

Although it is a rarity, a Christian who proclaims the message of God, are essentially Prophets. even JWs are aware of this, for their own articles attested to that a few times. This should be known to you granted you like to dwell on the articles, and this was presented before.

In short, concerning Christians in general, they are Normal Prophets, who proclaim God's message, his Word of whom they bear witness to, for what we have in common with Prophet Agabus, Moses, Elijah, etc is that we proclaim God's Word. I am sure this is widely known by your former faith granted they are the types to adhere to the Commission itself. Likewise a modern day Prophet do their best to convey the message and discern the signs of the times.

For the record, Witness or Announcer is associated with the term Prophet.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But also, when JW would talk about “prophets” he would use the terms “inspired” (from God or from the devil) and even more significant terminology is “true and false prophet”.

He who?

If JWs in general, they're aware of Prophets of Old compared to later on and the modern day.

As for False Prophets, I am not sure if you know what that entails, hence where I pulled my quotation from, so what I said about people making their own interpretation regarding False Prophets outside of the term, spins another problem.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Analogously, are JWs true or false (prophets) publishers and witnesses today?

Granted what transpired after Apostle John and the events of 325AD. They're Normal Prophets, hence what I said in my original explanation which was quoted 4 times to you and Witness.

As mentioned, Prophets of today, also called messengers, do not have abilities like that of Prophets of Old. They are Spirit led. They do not have miraculous gifts of Prophecy so they can only prophesy from God's Word, and the majority who are as such attest to maintain spiritual cleanliness. And as mentioned, they do what they need to do to keep close to God's Word, to profess it, and uses his Word to help others build themselves up morality, and in good faith.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JWs deal with interpretations of the biblical text and predictions of events from biblical texts that are enigmatic or in the form of prophecy.

And yet this does not negate them, you, me or anyone here as Prophets Inspired, be it chosen or not. For none of us, even them, are as such, unless somehow someone survived from the 1st century into 2022, which is pure fiction.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

When they make a mistake in interpretations, they are "false prophets", aren't they?

Mistakes can be made however, the only reason the False Prophet term was misapplied concerning them is due to the fact EXJW have claim that Jehovah's Witnesses spoke of themselves as Inspired Prophets, which is false. Likewise due to the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses do not see Jesus as God.

The term False Prophet, in a brief sense a False Prophet(s) are those who proclaim God's Word of which they attribute to being an inspired spokesman of God, for God's primary source of mediating his message to the world when in reality such a message of those who make the claim does not harmonize with God.

This is why, for instance, a man comes and says he is inspired and proclaims God's Word, making mistakes, the application of the term can be used. Such as, the members of Babylon, and those who claim to gain Spiritual Energy from God or a source to take action, i.e. the JW ban in Russia. For such types of people, mainly in association with Babylon, has their Agendas that need to be played out for their own benefit.

And speaking of Babylon, those who are aware of the events of 2000s going to present day, know who is associated with the Harlot, granted that there was a time where they often met at summits concerning their Conquest for Peace, namely the Pope.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And when their doctrine will remain unchanged forever then we will be able to call them “true prophets,” right?

Restorationist tend to adapt on whatever they come into discovering. There isn't much of a difference between the term True Prophet or Normal Prophet, the only distinction is in regards to the Inspired and not Inspired.

Prophets of Old are Infallible whereas Prophets later on are not infallible, which is the case with the majority, even JWs.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

How does a “normal JW prophet” come to “knowledge”?

By learning. Granted they are Restorationist and maintain their roots, this is something that are known for, mainly if you are aware of how Restorationist be it group or not, operate.

An example of this is when the Bible Student Pastor concerning 1914, whereas they went on to research more and gain more of an understanding. Likewise with the practice of which Puritans, who predate them, deem problematic, in which after discovering the truth of said Traditions, they abandon the practice due to a better understanding.

Even today when it comes to various Traditions, once people figure out the history, they drop the practice all together, however, in doing so, such people are branded as those who lack fun, Cultist and other names in the book, especially when it comes to those who do not celebrate the alleged birth of the Lord of which Catholicism fooled many on.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Through verbal and written "prophecy" of GB, of course.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not Inspired Prophets, they're simply normal Not Infallible Prophets, therefore, they, like the majority, do not have the gift of prophecy, nor have they claimed to be Inspired Prophets. Only Prophets Inspired, such as Agabus, Moses, etc have the ability to prophecy correctly, predict as is have visions of such. But as pointed out, such abilities had ceased, and it died with Apostle John.

Now Hypothetically speaking, if JWs did claim Inspiration like all of Mainstream and Prophecy as not infallible, then the term False Prophet would evidently be used against them, but this isn't the case.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

GB is The Main Ecclesiastical Body for all JWs, and they are Guardian of Doctrine.

Having religious leaders is not uncommon in which there is a big body of Christians, it was no different in the 1st century rather. Religious leaders in general often discuss on Doctrine, Core Teachings and oversee things. Likewise to Family Heads, Man of the House, which is a parallel.

As is being Guardians of Doctrine, it is unlikely, if that was the case, the common JW would not have access to the Bible as a whole, let alone other information concerning Scripture. In a sense, they'd be like a Mega Church where no congregants have access to the Bible or related, only the pastor does.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So the “normal JW” is just a transmitter of GB "revelations", not some sort of “prophet” who, through personal spiritual effort, came up with the impetus for “prophecy” with the help/incentive  of "spirit".

The Religious leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses can't have revelations like Prophets Inspired of Old. They're normal Prophets who are not infallible as is all JWs, be it current or former.

Normal Prophets cannot gain prophecy like old Prophets.

Normal Prophets can be spirit led if they ask God for Holy Spirit in order to help them, even gain a better understanding.

The evidence tends to speak for itself, one of several examples below:

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

"Normal JW prophet" works on the copy / paste model.

Does not seem to be the case.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

They absorb information from "earthly mother organization"

Granted the JWs are simply a sole religious group/organization, it is unwise to interject the term mother. Unless JWs have a secondary religious organization, they you have a case, but that is unfounded, false information.

That being said, you didn't really elaborate on what is being absorb. When it comes to Core Teachings, they're primarily Anti-Trinitarian, due to the fact, even their leaders don't believe in the Trinity.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

and then transmit it through public preaching.

So what issue is there with the Messianic Message? The Main differences is Hellfire, Immortality of the Soul, Jesus being God, which is something they do not proclaim in the gospel of good news whereas the other faction, who teaches this.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JW "prophesies" (about) his faith in .....this and that.

His? Are you talking about JWs or a specific JW? 

They prophesying God's Word, the message, they don't prophesy prophecy, as is, proclaim something by means of a revelation, etc.

[Space Merchant]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I asked the SM a question regarding his thesis.

It wasn't a thesis, it was factual information. A Thesis relies on a statement or theory. Facts are things of which are verified, in this case, Biblical Hermeneutics. For Biblical Hermeneutics is the study of the principles of interpretation concerning the books of the Bible. If you've forgotten, I am a Biblical Unitarian, so Biblical Hermeneutics, as is Christian history is what I dwell on. Then again, what surprises me is a former JW isn't aware of Biblical Hermeneutics, interesting.

@Arauna I am sure you are aware of Biblical Hermeneutics.

That being said, I take it some from your former faith never looked into Biblical Hermeneutics, hence his confusion.

[Srecko Sostar]

31 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

So the notion of it being common knowledge is very evident in the following example below:

It amazes me that Rutherford was not familiar with this precise and common knowledge about terminology, because the new name, from 1931 onwards, would have sounded better like "Jehovah's Prophets". But when you explain to us the difference between an “inspired” and an “uninspired” prophet then I see where Rutherford’s place is.  

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Although it is a rarity, a Christian who proclaims the message of God, are essentially Prophets. even JWs are aware of this, for their own articles attested to that a few times. This should be known to you granted you like to dwell on the articles, and this was presented before.

Yes, I am aware of this flip-flop about using this particular term i WTJWorg publications.

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Granted what transpired after Apostle John and the events of 325AD. They're Normal Prophets, hence what I said in my original explanation which was quoted 4 times to you and Witness.

Agree  , they are “Normal Prophets” with flip-flop doctrines and understanding with variable knowledge of unimportant things.

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Mistakes can be made however, the only reason the False Prophet term was misapplied concerning them is due to the fact EXJW have claim that Jehovah's Witnesses spoke of themselves as Inspired Prophets, which is false.

So according to your logic, it is quite normal that "uninspired prophets" have full freedom and permission to prophesy whatever seems right to them, even if it was complete nonsense for those "uninspired prophets" who later reject previous "prophecies" or adapt it to new level of knowledge.

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

The Religious leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses can't have revelations like Prophets Inspired of Old. They're normal Prophets who are not infallible as is all JWs, be it current or former.

If all “normal prophets” are equal, then most JWs have acquired the same spiritual level because of which there is no need for elders to act as teachers and pastors. However, you do not acknowledge that a woman can be on the same spiritual level as a man, but that only a man is in the position of a shepherd.

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Granted the JWs are simply a sole religious group/organization, it is unwise to interject the term mother. Unless JWs have a secondary religious organization, they you have a case, but that is unfounded, false information.

You have the wrong source of information about this thing.

 

[Space Merchant]

40 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It amazes me that Rutherford was not familiar with this precise and common knowledge about terminology, because the new name, from 1931 onwards, would have sounded better like "Jehovah's Prophets". But when you explain to us the difference between an “inspired” and an “uninspired” prophet then I see where Rutherford’s place is.  

He was aware of what an announcer, as is what a witness who attest to testimony to God's Word is, as is the majority in the 1900s. Christians, even the Bible Students knew what bearing witness to the Word entails.

Pastor Rutherford was never an Inspired Prophet, not did he claim to be infallible, he was simply a Normal Prophet, or in this case, regarding the norm, Prophet Not Inspired.

Also FYI, that screen was not from the JWs although the terminology was identical, but more detailed. The JW one was the first image.

40 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Yes, I am aware of this flip-flop about using this particular term i WTJWorg publications.

It isn't a flip flop though, for if it was, then the archived information would have said differently, which was not the case. It was very clear of what a Modern Day Prophet is, someone who is a witness to God's Word, hence proclaim the message; adhere to the Great Commission, commanded by the Christ of which those God fearing should be doing, yourself included.

40 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Agree  , they are “Normal Prophets” with flip-flop doctrines and understanding with variable knowledge of unimportant things.

But you adhere to them being infallible in your last statements. Why the sudden change?

Your latter remark makes no sense.

40 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So according to your logic, it is quite normal that "uninspired prophets" have full freedom and permission to prophesy whatever seems right to them, even if it was complete nonsense for those "uninspired prophets" who later reject previous "prophecies" or adapt it to new level of knowledge.

It isn't logic based, this is Biblical Hermeneutics based.

Normal Prophets aka Prophets Not Inspired do not have miraculous gifts therefore cannot attest to a Revelation and or reap Prophecy. Prophesying is akin to proclaim the message of God's Word, hence it is clear on what the Preaching of the Messianic Age entails. Prophesying also is done through worship to the True God, which is in harmony with what he says in his Word, as is the commands of his Christ.

Incorrect, they never rejected any Prophecy in God's Word. Perhaps coming to understand it later on, but as far as rejection, it is unfounded.

40 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If all “normal prophets” are equal, then most JWs have acquired the same spiritual level because of which there is no need for elders to act as teachers and pastors.

Everyone does not start at the same level, learning God's Word is to come to an understanding, the fact you mention this now shows you didn't understand what was said a few minutes ago, for, a JW who has been looking into the Bible for 8 years is on a different lane compared to another who has a few months of experience. Likewise with former JWs, however, they tend to get duped by the Mainstream frequently, as is others in Christendom.

The need for Teachers and Pastors is still important, for a directionless Christian will most likely go into the realm of alienation of God faster than someone who has been excommunicated from a Church, so to speak. When there is Alienation, then there are ideologies deem not Biblical to be applied by such a person.

The lack of Teachers is also the reason that has led society to view the Bible with distaste. Even in the past, Teachers were vital, for Apostle John's students were examples. If Polycarp did not have John, then he'd be open to the accursed teachings which isn't Core, perhaps succumb to Gnosticism.

But because of John, who was his Teacher, his view of Gnosticism as his reaction was priceless [“O good God! For what times hast thou kept me that I should endure such things!”]

40 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

However, you do not acknowledge that a woman can be on the same spiritual level as a man, but that only a man is in the position of a shepherd.

I am talking about Christians in General, I wasn't being specific, hence my original remark never disclosed the individual's sex, male or female. As for the other remark concerning Shepherds, Women can be Ministers proclaimers of the message like their inspired counterparts, they cannot hold religious office (which is unfounded in the Bible), and you were beaten in this debate before, so concerning God's Order, it is known as to why one respects said Order, as is understanding the Words of an Inspired Prophet, Apostle Paul.

As Ministers, they can witness God's Word, as is teach it to others, even children and other women. The Unisex practice came forth from mistake interpretation of Scripture, something of which both you and Witness could not comprehend in that debate concerning God's Order, and you tried to throw a lie about Chloe.

That being said, God's Order is the same, and has not changed.

40 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You have the wrong source of information about this thing.

No, I don't have the wrong source of information.

If I am wrong, then name another religious organization essentially owned by the Watchtower? For, if there is a Mother Organization, there should be a Primary one also.

If you cannot prove that information now and later on, then your claim is unfounded, as is the ill use of a terminology that did not benefit you.

 

[Dmitar]

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

As for Biblical Parables, I haven't mentioned any in this thread. But if we had to pick a Parable, especially concerning the notion of Prophets, perhaps the Parable of the Ten Virgins, concerning those awaiting for the return of the Christ, for, Christians are aware of what the Commission represents, and who gave command to it, as is when it is to end is up to the Lord to give his say on.

A not inspired prophet, or in this case, a normal prophet is encouraged by God's Word, if not, even moved by it. They show and express a genuine love for God and are moved to take action, just as those of old and our church fathers have. They are guided by God by means of influence and thinking, and our speech as with actions by means of the power of His Spirit and His Word, as can be evident by Matthew 13:11, 24:14

Unfortunately, when you mention Matthew 13:11 that's what you are insinuating with the context, thus the need for clarification. How does the mysteries define a not inspired prophet through parables?

 

[Dmitar]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Granted they are Restorationist and maintain their roots, this is something that are known for, mainly if you are aware of how Restorationist be it group or not, operate.

What is the difference between a reformer and a restorationist? How would you compare the Watchtower with those labels?

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It amazes me that Rutherford was not familiar with this precise and common knowledge about terminology, because the new name, from 1931 onwards, would have sounded better like "Jehovah's Prophets". But when you explain to us the difference between an “inspired” and an “uninspired” prophet then I see where Rutherford’s place is

I guess it's also amazing how former Jehovah's Witnesses manipulate a subject without knowledge and terminology. Especially when interjecting modern thought to the past.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Yes, I am aware of this flip-flop about using this particular term i WTJWorg publications.

You mean the flip-flops ExJWs use with the WT and Bible Student literature as text manipulation?

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

they are “Normal Prophets” with flip-flop doctrines and understanding with variable knowledge of unimportant things.

This is funny coming from a person that lacks understanding. 😂

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If all “normal prophets” are equal, then most JWs have acquired the same spiritual level because of which there is no need for elders to act as teachers and pastors. However, you do not acknowledge that a woman can be on the same spiritual level as a man, but that only a man is in the position of a shepherd.

Reference the above. 😂

@Srecko Sostar, you seem to tamper down until you see the ignorance of others to lash out. How is that not a flip-flop with emotions?

[Srecko Sostar]

53 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

, you seem to tamper down until you see the ignorance of others to lash out. How is that not a flip-flop with emotions?

How SM do show ignorance?

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

A not inspired prophet, or in this case, a normal prophet is encouraged by God's Word, if not, even moved by it. They show and express a genuine love for God and are moved to take action, just as those of old and our church fathers have. They are guided by God by means of influence and thinking, and our speech as with actions by means of the power of His Spirit and His Word, as can be evident by Matthew 13:11, 24:14

Unfortunately, when you mention Matthew 13:11 that's what you are insinuating with the context, thus the need for clarification. How does the mysteries define a not inspired prophet through parables?

The Parable of the Sower passage is verses 1 to 9, in which verse 10 is regarding what the Disciples asked the Christ concerning the Secrets of Heaven, and verse 11 Jesus answers them. The verse is cf from 24:14. It would make more sense on my part to include the Parable itself, but the focus on the cf verse was due to reason, The fact that God's Love in which Christians have moves them to action, as is to take in God's influence, thinking, by means of the spirit he gives and his Word. As Jesus explained to them that these sacred secrets are connected with the Kingdom of the heavens, the heavenly Kingdom of which Jesus will take his Kingship position, for they, the Disciples knew, but others did not.

Likewise for us today, we know of this information, as proclaimers of the Word, moved by the Spirit, we proclaim the Messianic Age gospel to the people so they too will know. This is why on the other quotation I put emphasis on Spirit Led, so all cf reference were used for that.

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

What is the difference between a reformer and a restorationist? How would you compare the Watchtower with those labels?

Reformers are the end result of those who Protest and demand changes in the Church of Catholicism, namely, the Roman Church. It is in association with Reformationist, who still to this day, Protest the Church, however some gave in to PEAK and KAIROS.

A Restorationist seeks restore/apply core teachings and beliefs associated with the Early Church, even going as far as to become like them when it came to the earliest form of Christianity to be applied in the modern day.

[ApostaBabe Linda James]

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

Excuse me - that is not a statement that is true.I do not want to get into an argument with the two of you.But how can someone who does not attend our meetings talk of extremism amongst us? I have not seen anything like that!

That's fine Miss Arauna, thank you for not wanting to get in an argument with the two of us, but sense you have joined in with us on our conversation where we are sharing our observations and opinions on them ( to which I do welcome you, ) I'm more then fine with you disagreeing with me on what I say

19 hours ago, ApostaBabe Linda James said:

Using fear is one of the most effective ways to control people.

This place of desperation seems to be fueling the aggressive flames of extremism within the organization and Society at Large

that I have observed regarding the use of fear as being one of the most affective ways to control people. And that It is that place of fear induced desperation that seems to be "fueling the aggressive flames of extremism" within the organization and Society at large,

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

But how can someone who does not attend our meetings talk of extremism amongst us?I have not seen anything like that!

 If your statement of, "how can someone who does not attend our meetings talk of extremism among us ?" Is refiring to me ? Then I too can say,

"excuse me - that is not a statement that is true." 

Going on to claim, "that you have not seen anything like that!" is understandable to me. That's your observation and I believe you. 

I get that you and I see things differently. I can even respect that. But can you respect that I may be seeing and observing things differently than you are without you having to dismiss and discount my experiences and observations by saying that my statement is untrue?

To you Miss Anauna, I request that you don't use the "Us and Them," rhetoric regarding me. It's known to be used with the underlining message of, Us being the good guys ( aka, on God's side ) and Them being the bad guys ( aka on the Devil's side ) within High Control, High Demand Authoritarian Cultures.

Now that may be what you are getting at when using that rhetoric, or it may not be, I'm just letting you know that don't care for that kind of separating rhetoric being used when you are referring to me. That kind of rhetoric is very culty.

[Space Merchant]

53 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

How SM do show ignorance?

I wasn't defending the Unisex teaching, therefore, I shed no ignorance, only the facts. even corrected both you and @Witness on Chloe, and even then, due to your err no one corrected you until it was refuted. So @Dmitar was correct due to your statement below

[If all “normal prophets” are equal, then most JWs have acquired the same spiritual level because of which there is no need for elders to act as teachers and pastors. However, you do not acknowledge that a woman can be on the same spiritual level as a man, but that only a man is in the position of a shepherd.]

Women can teach and minister, they cannot hold Religious Office, that is, if you are a supporter of the Unisex Practice which was never of the Church.