Trying to nail down 612 BCE as the date of Nineveh's destruction

[JW Insider]

@George88, I moved your BM 33401 topic over to the new thread, too. If you think it should be discussed back over here, just let me know. For me it makes no difference, but I think it was a good question to get to at some point.

[George88]

Thanks, but no, thanks. My main interest lies in obtaining accurate biblical and secular facts without being influenced by general opinions from both scholars and non-scholars. I must emphasize that I have never denied the validity of the 19 years, as it can be used in multiple ways, not just one. For those who insist on using VAT-4956 to refer to 587 BC, it is important to consider a military context within Hatti land, where one can argue for the usage of 626 BC. By studying the language discrepancies, we can potentially derive evidence by analyzing 2 Kings 25:8, which describes Captain Nabuzaradan's entry into Jerusalem to set fire to the house of God and any structures connected to the temple in 588/7 BC.

This would imply that Judah, along with Jerusalem, would have experienced the divine judgment referenced in other passages that we should be familiar with (607/6 BC). According to Dr. Wiseman's Chronicles, during times of military conquest, besieged cities were typically plundered and subsequently destroyed. According to the chronicles in BM 21946, Jerusalem was besieged in 598/7 BC, which falls short of the 19 years mentioned in the Bible.

If you want to challenge the wording in 2 Kings 25:8 to support your view, that's your prerogative. However, I believe that this perspective is inaccurate. I have carefully constructed my conclusion to align perfectly with both secular evidence and scripture, leaving no loose ends.

To visitors, the Babylonian Chronicles do not explicitly mention the destruction of Jerusalem in 587/6 BC, but there are significant clues that rely on biblical understanding and the passage of 19 years. One specific tablet of interest, VAT-4956 / BM 33041 and there's another, provides astrological coordinates for important observations. However, most likely what people are relying on is the mention of the 37th year of King Nebuchadnezzar on these tablets. It is interesting to note that these tablets do not mention the year 587 BC. The irony lies in the fact that the gap in the Babylonian Chronicles corresponds precisely to the 37-year duration missing from them and is expressed in the astrological tablet.

If we accept that interpretation in tablet BM 33041 based solely on the phrase 37th year, then it would point to the burning of the temple in 588/7 BC instead of the "destruction" of Jerusalem.

[JW Insider]

30 minutes ago, George88 said:

Thanks, but no, thanks.

All right then, I moved the BM 33041 post back here. 

[JW Insider]

13 hours ago, George88 said:

I must emphasize that I have never denied the validity of the 19 years, as it can be used in multiple ways, not just one. For those who insist on using VAT-4956 to refer to 587 BC, it is important to consider a military context within Hatti land, where one can argue for the usage of 626 BC. By studying the language discrepancies, we can potentially derive evidence by analyzing 2 Kings 25:8, which describes Captain Nabuzaradan's entry into Jerusalem to set fire to the house of God and any structures connected to the temple in 588/7 BC.

This would imply that Judah, along with Jerusalem, would have experienced the divine judgment referenced in other passages that we should be familiar with (607/6 BC). According to Dr. Wiseman's Chronicles, during times of military conquest, besieged cities were typically plundered and subsequently destroyed. According to the chronicles in BM 21946, Jerusalem was besieged in 598/7 BC, which falls short of the 19 years mentioned in the Bible.

If you want to challenge the wording in 2 Kings 25:8 to support your view, that's your prerogative. However, I believe that this perspective is inaccurate. I have carefully constructed my conclusion to align perfectly with both secular evidence and scripture, leaving no loose ends.

You've intrigued me with this view before in past years (under different names). I know why you usually bring up Tobit, as you did again here in this topic. And I know why you have brought up multiple persons named Nebuchadnezzar, and you even asked me why I ignored that particular evidence. I also know why you have left a kind of "teaser" here about "never denying the validity of the 19 years," because, as you say, it can be used in another way. And I also realize that there is one particular king of this "Nebuchadnezzar line" whose 19th year, either coincidentally or providentially, happens to land on the actual "astronomically validated" and "evidenced" year of 607 BCE.

It's an interesting and intriguing theory, and I understand why you think it's hardly worthy of being subject to the outside opinions any scholars or non-scholars on this forum. You have even mentioned in the past that you had planned to write it up in a more thoroughly researched and more thoroughly formulated manner in order to present it in some way to the WTS.

Because it still fully supports the 607/606 date, and fully supports judgement against both the kingly and religious seat at Jerusalem, and the full 70 years, it would continue to agree with all the major claims we currently make about the current 607 BCE. teaching. And it has the advantage of not being falsified by astronomical tablets. 

I haven't commented much on it, because I have a feeling you are still working out the details, and i think you are finding some factors that mitigate some of the objections you might expect.

I don't need to tell you the kinds of objections you would have to overcome in convincing those who would make a decision about it's usefulness. @xero, perhaps inadvertently, provided one of the biggest ones when he presented the usual comment about the perceived historical unreliableness of Tobit. Of course, you are not "dependent" on Tobit, it might just be that what seems to be a naming anomaly in Tobit happens to reflect a reality that seems otherwise lost in the secular records. And, as you know, there are some ambiguities and confusions among Babylonian names of Kings with overlapping titles, and therefore overlapping names, because those names often contains titles, or were only used as a part of a longer more formal title. 

There's plenty more to it, and I don't fully dismiss your idea. I understand parts of it. But it's yours to describe, and if I try to guess at the points you are finding in Wiseman and other books that might help support the idea, I'm sure I will get some of it wrong. I'm sure I have got some of the above pieces wrong about it already. Perhaps you have already changed or currently resolved some of the prior issues in a different way than you had tried in the past. 

I would be happy to discuss it seriously, but you would have to be more specific than you have been to date.  

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, George88 said:

While I understand that you are highlighting the significance of a specific example, it is essential to acknowledge that it cannot singularly outweigh the numerous evil acts committed by wicked individuals. Although this circumstance may seem noteworthy, it is crucial to recognize that it does not apply universally.

So now you back off and tone down your previous claim. Thank you.

[Srecko Sostar]

17 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

11 hours ago, George88 said:

While I understand that you are highlighting the significance of a specific example, it is essential to acknowledge that it cannot singularly outweigh the numerous evil acts committed by wicked individuals. Although this circumstance may seem noteworthy, it is crucial to recognize that it does not apply universally.

So now you back off and tone down your previous claim. Thank you.

According to statistics maintained by WTJWorg there are very few countries where JWs are banned compared to the large number of countries where JWs operate freely. According to this factual situation, we can look at the concept and idea that "the whole world hates JWs" differently and more realistically.

[George88]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So now you back off and tone down your previous claim. Thank you.

Your interpretation of my words would be incorrect.

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

According to statistics maintained by WTJWorg there are very few countries where JWs are banned compared to the large number of countries where JWs operate freely. According to this factual situation, we can look at the concept and idea that "the whole world hates JWs" differently and more realistically.

You seem to be mixing up behavior and action. Let me give you a clear example. As an advocate, are you here to provide warnings or spread hate? Moreover, what is the significance of ex-witnesses and disgruntled witnesses who share similar thoughts?

[xero]

I'll go back and read, but I've been busy, and I won't be rushed.
So far I've used https://skyviewcafe.com/ I've entered the coordinates for Hillah, Iraq. It's not looking promising. No visible lunar eclipse according to this software (if I'm using it properly)

[George88]

Starry Night

[Pudgy]

There are several iOS (Apple iPhone) Apps available that can provide dates for past astronomical events based on GPS coordinates. Apps like SkySafari, Star Walk, and Night Sky offer features that allow you to input your location and view past astronomical events such as eclipses, planetary alignments, and meteor showers. These apps typically have databases of historical astronomical data that can be accessed based on your location and desired time frame.

Make a hand drawn chart.

Pick six dates and separate the numbers in groups of 1 or 2. Ignore numbers over 65. Annotate the chart’s title with this sequence … example:

”52  27  3  61  63  12

Rearrange  the first five numbers from lowest to highest …. example:

3  27  52  61  63 and (12)

Examination of whatever numbers YOU CALCULATED (… don’t use the numbers shown), you will notice they make, or infer really great Lottery Numbers

Results may vary.

Remember, in the words of the Prophet and guitar picker Desert Pete (paraphrased) “You’ve got to prime the pump, ya gotta have faith and believe!  Ya gotta prime the pump, if that money you’d receive!”

Results may vary.

 

[Pudgy]

The practical value of the above method is particularly valuable to insomniacs, as you can guitar pick yourself into a coma.

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, George88 said:

You seem to be mixing up behavior and action. Let me give you a clear example. As an advocate, are you here to provide warnings or spread hate? Moreover, what is the significance of ex-witnesses and disgruntled witnesses who share similar thoughts?

My behavior in communication on the forum is subject to subjective (yours or someone else's) judgment because they observe my actions through their individual prism of judgment, which they acquired mainly under the influence of their religious affiliation.