Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

[Anna]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

I agree with most all that you are saying, except many children are abused by a parent; a parent they thought they could trust.  Also, I was abused as a girl by someone in the extended family. Because my parents thought so highly of the individual, I never had the heart to tell them of my abuse that lasted years, even though I had an especially close bond with my father.  They died not knowing the sordid truth about my abuser.

I am very sorry to hear that .  I did not dismiss the possibility of a parent being the abuser. It is the saddest of all the abuse cases and unfortunately the most common. It is a betrayal of trust of the worst kind. Only the God of justice will put things right.  

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

So, what you are saying, The Roman government had the right to kill Jesus, Good to know your mentality. I believe you have just answered the Deuteronomist question of "Thou shall NOT steal" that can be applied to the outrageous court daily sanction. Now you can add the double-edged sword!!!

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-judges-discipline-20150404-story.html

According to you!!! the Watchtower. I'll ask you again, do you believe the Watchtower is doing the devils work? you didn't answer the question on another thread!!!!

Dear Allen! 

You are not born yesterday. And you are very well aware of one fact - Justice and Law are not always in harmony. Romans government in 1 century was secular authority and ....  

 "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God." - good or bad.

Answer is in this verse/verses in Romans 13. Please, do not drag me into your mental muddy water.  

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Is, the Court Judge, our brethren, and the courthouse a Kingdom Hall?

Why not? Matt chapter 5 

"And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same?"

If JW congregants would organizing some bible public talk or convention in such space - it would be KH :))))) as sports stadium or other worldly object that JW using for similar activity, ahahhahaa  

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, Anna said:

I have to disagree with this.  Just because you are a child, doesn't mean you are incapable, talk to parents everywhere and they will tell you children can be very capable! When that child has a strong emotional bond with their parent, and knows they can trust a parent, even if they do not fully understand something, then they will be more than eager to listen to that parent. Especially small children (as they get older they have their own ideas). It's interesting to see that worldly attitudes tend to focus on the cure rather than prevention. How much better is it when a child does not even have to experience such a traumatic event, rather than having to spend years in psychological counseling. How much better is it when people prevent diseases by living a healthy lifestyle, rather than spend the rest of their life visiting doctors and taking pills.  A child who is taught that certain actions that some people do are wrong, they tend to run and tell their parent on them if they identify it. That, coupled with vigilant parents who do not leave their children unattended and who recognize the signs of suspicious behavior on the part of someone who is interacting with their child, then that child's safety is almost guaranteed. But of course you can't expect that sort of discipline from everyone, especially not when they are dysfunctional in some way, or if they do not value God's laws. Regardless of anything though, blame is never put on the victim.

You can't rely on training a rapist not to be one, but you can train yourself not to be a victim.

This is just one facet, one side of looking to problem that exist.   i see your trying, thanks. 

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Bit like the suspected reasons for the targeting of Andrey Gosht's family?

Please Fisher, help me with this, i am not sure what you wish to tell me. I went on google about this Andrey, terrible crime.  Are whole family are responsible for Andreys job as policeman? Or they just pay price for his family member acting, deeds?  

[Srecko Sostar]

17 hours ago, Anna said:

Really? Is that what you really believe?

:))))) inspiration must to come somehow. At least once a week... for GB, while sitting together in conference room and debate about present, perfect and future  

[Evacuated]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please Fisher, help me with this

Don't you see the parallel of holding a group liable for punishment for the perceived crime of an individual member?

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Gone Fishing said:

Do not you see the parallel of a member of the group?

Andrey was chief police. And he chased bad guys. Bad guys aka mafia made revenge for that he was acting according to law. They killed all his family because they was Andrey family members. Members of this family payed price for only one reason, they are blood related, have same surname.  ---- This is crime, terror act.

JW members around the world  have same "surname" and are "blood related" to WT GB- their Mother. WT GB acting according to God's law (and WT GB is good guys:))) but in a manner they think is lawful and justifiable. Then Worldly Court "mafia" in California attack WT, break their home and stealing  $4000 per day. One other Worldly Court "mafia" in Russia went one step further. Members of WT family are in distress. They are in fear for they life. Any moment Court "mafia" will fine them also with money punishment or by putting them in jail or by killing them.  

Is this what you try to tell me? 

Yes, it can be in this way too. But my point on "private and collective responsibility" is in relation: human and God , and Rev 18:4 as you point out. Would punishment of any sort come from God directly or through human and human organization or by nature catastrophe or by .... it is difficult to say, for me difficult   

 

 

 

   

[Evacuated]

14 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Is this what you try to tell me?

No. Just that the idea of punishing "many" for the "crime" of just a "few" is not limited to legal dictionaries. It is a common phenomenon in all walks of life. The application is left to your fertile imagination.

[Srecko Sostar]

33 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Just that the idea of punishing "many" for the "crime" of just a "few

This idea is Bible based. David count people and God killed thousands of Israelites but David stayed on king throne  :)) 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

20 hours ago, Witness said:

I was abused as a girl by someone in the extended family. Because my parents thought so highly of the individual, I never had the heart to tell them of my abuse

It explains (to me) many things, or at least puts them in a different light. You are rather bold to share it, even anonymously.

[TrueTomHarley]

One thing I like about @AllenSmithis that he does not yield the moral high ground. Why should he?

I will concede that for one brief instant of time it may be that this or that advocate seems more a protector of a child than its congregation organization. But not too long after his or her back is turned, that child is tossed right back into an unprotected cesspool. The world has compiled a list of abusers that is so long it is absolutely worthless to enforcement. Consequently, being put on 'the list' is largely a matter of revenge or public shamimg - not undeserved, but it does nothing to solve the problem of protecting children. To some extent, it has devolved into a job machine and a platform for grandstanding politicians to declare how they are tough on pedophiles.

England's top cop recently recommended all men found with pedophilia on their computers not be prosecuted. It pained him to say it, he said, but the simple fact is that there is so many that police cannot possibly keep up and are distracted from monitoring the real nasty ones - the ones who they say are like Medusa - look at it once, and your heart turns to stone.

All the time, we hear of children abused by persons who were already on the list  - why - they were right down the street! The world chokes on its abusers. For that matter - the world is so nuts - it ought to put every victim on the list as well, or at least on a watch list, for it is common knowledge that an abused one readily becomes an abuser. Completely unfair - but it makes perfect sense for a world that thinks it can snuff out abuse through pedophile registries.

Rapists are the ones who should be aggressively punished. No punishment is too great. As to the rest - look, even someone who recently confessed to being a victim of an extended family member - it probably would not have happened in these days of Caleb and Sophia, who are told: "If anybody tries to touch you - even if it is someone you know and trust ...  and then tell mommy or daddy." An extended family member doing abuse is common. A parent doing it is very uncommon, except in the case of a step-parent. The training of every Witness in the world via the Regional convention would also have gone a long way to prevent her calamity.

Allen is right to never yield the high ground. It is a huge court mess the brothers dealing with and I don't know how it will resolve, but Allen will not allow others to pull the 'righteous' card. Even with this mess, we are more righteous than they. The court cases are a classic example of getting slammed for doing the right thing: monitoring any abuser so that they can  be punished and any other congregations protected by their slipping in and feigning innocence. Nobody else even tries it. Do they have 1 abuser per hundred, or 50 per 100? Nobody knows or wants to know. Only Jehovah's Witnesses have the courage to stand up to a moral outrage and they should not be maligned for it.