Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

[Anna]

3 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

information on how elders handle sexual abuse allegations in the congregation.

Like I said, this is available, or something similar, if you ask for it Child-Safeguarding-Policy-January-2017.pdf

[Anna]

10 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

Of course it means something. Where did I suggest otherwise? I know our WT literature makes it clear that sexual abuse is abhorrent. Those articles are referring to proactive ways to prevent abuse, but I'm referring to what procedures take place after an event has occurred.

The crux of the problem is that our policies were always more preventive focused and proactive as you say, and less cure focused.  We naively assumed that if we educate the friends on how to avoid child sexual abuse in the first palace, then all will be solved, there will be no victims. That was the ideal situation of course, but was however not taking into account the fact that not everyone was going to, or even capable of applying this advice.

I am trying to  be fair and I have no problem admitting we’ve had to eat humble pie because we thought our child protection was the best, because it focused on prevention. Indeed what’s better than that? In theory it was very good, and that’s because it was assuming that every parent and child applied all that advice that was put out there. But of course in practice this wasn’t the case, and so these preventative measures did not always achieve their goal because they were not always applied. So now, we have to revise the preventive idea and supplement it with getting justice for those for who it is too late, the victims, making disclosure as comfortable as possible, and ensuring punishment for those who committed the crime including limiting access to congregants.  And that all is a whole different ball game, but I trust we are doing our best because we do not want any of our children to suffer.

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, Anna said:

Just give me a couple of hours. Just starting on dinner.

Bon apetite!

Thanks for polite and mindful respond. Rare characteristic this days  ..... here :))))))

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

spiritually mature Christian can REVERT back to a child spiritually, and then, complain, they don’t understand?

GB doing this periodically with excuses/explanation how "new light get brighter", was came on them and because that they changed teaching... and they, GB, literally using words how they not understand something in the past....but  now they do. "Now" will last to another changing of doctrine. 

Is reasoning (rationale) in your sentence possible to apply on GB? :)))

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, Anna said:

G. Jackson: “The point being, here, another aspect that an elder needs  to consider is he does not have the authority to lord it over or take over control of a family arrangement, where a person - let's say it is a victim who is 24 or 25 years of age - has a right to decide whether or not they will report that incident. They also respect the family arrangement that the appointed guardian, who is not the perpetrator, has  a certain right, too.  So this is the spiritual dilemma that we have, because at the same time, we want to make sure that children are cared for. So if the government does happen to make mandatory reporting, that will make this dilemma so much easier for us, because we all want the same goal,that children will be cared for properly”.

Last sentence would comment.

Bible revealed "mandatory reporting" on its pages. And WT GB very clearly explaining that to its members, to all JW around the World. Anna, you for sure know many bible verses about that and how WT publications interpretations on such issue must be, have be practiced, enforced in all JW congregations.

So, as i see things, G. Jackson just looking for excuses in front ARC.  Here is what was also been said in ARC:

"Mr Geoffrey Jackson agreed that all policies of the JehovahÂ’s Witness organisation are subject to scriptural principles and that the Governing Body approves all policies to ensure that they are in keeping with the Scriptures.96

Branch offices around the world, including the Australia Branch Office,99 may write articles for the Awake! and The Watchtower publications, but the articles must be submitted to the Governing BodyÂ’s Writing Committee for approval.100

Mr Jackson and Mr Toole told the Royal Commission that Branch Offices may adjust policy letters issued by the Governing Body to reflect the requirements of local laws.101 Mr Jackson said that it would be unusual for a Branch Office to publish its own manual or guidelines on responding to allegations of child sexual abuse.102 From at least the 1990s, under the direction of the Governing Body,103 the Australia Branch Office has periodically issued directives in the form of letters addressed to all bodies of elders providing instruction on how to respond to allegations of child sexual abuse.104"

Current policy on child sexual abuse

Mr Spinks told the Royal Commission that the current polices of the JehovahÂ’s Witness organisation for dealing with an allegation of child sexual abuse are outlined in:105

• the Bible (the English edition published by the Jehovah’s Witness organisation is the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

• the current elders’ handbook, Shepherd the Flock of God106

• Jehovah’s Witness organisation publications available to all congregants approaching baptism,107 such as Organized to Do Jehovah’s Will108

• guidelines issued by the Governing Body to all branch offices in August 2013 on how Service Desks should field questions from elders about child abuse matters109

• letters sent to all bodies of elders – in particular, the letter of 1 October 2012,110 which consolidated into one letter the spiritual advice and guidance provided in various letters from preceding years as to how Jehovah’s Witnesses handle allegations of child abuse111

• The Watchtower magazine article entitled ‘Let Us Abhor What is Wicked’, published in January 1997, which clarifies in biblical terms the principles a congregation should have regard to in considering how a ‘child molester’ should be viewed and treated.112

SO BY THIS I WOULD MAKE THIS CONCLUSION;

 DID NOT WT CORPORATION (HQ) BEEN AWARE FOR DECADES ABOUT LAW MANDATORY REPORTING OR NOT REPORTING, NOT ONLY IN AUSTRALIA BUT AROUND THE WORLD'?? IN ALL OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE WT COMPANY OPERATE??

AND BECAUSE WT JWORG IS UNIFIED,  IN UNITY AND UNIQUE  AS  GOD'S ORGANIZATION, UNDER THE SAME SPIRIT, AND HAVE SAME TEACHINGS, DOCTRINES AND INSTRUCTIONS AROUND THE WORLD - THEN WHY GB NOT HAVE THE SAME  PROTOCOL AND PRINCIPLES AND INSTRUCTIONS FOR ELDERS IN EVERY SINGLE CONGREGATION AND FOR AVERY BRO AND SIS IN THERE'?? IN ONE COUNTRY ELDERS WILL REPORT AND IN OTHER NOT ??????????????

G. JACKSON WAS INSTRUCTED BA LAWYERS WHAT AND HOW TO TESTIMONY. HE WAS NOT GUIDED BY HOLY SPIRIT.

Sorry for big letters. Nothing bad,  no angry mood, just to accent    

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, Anna said:

P.15967

G. Jackson: “But the point I was trying to make, Mr Stewart, is there are other scriptural factors that maybe make that a little complicated, and it would certainly be a lot easier if we had mandatory laws on that”.

haha, so G.J. want to watering, dilute God's s word with secular laws. He want "mandatory laws" and by that have "justification" to put some "scriptural factors" down ???!!! 

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Anna said:

Officially the Elders might not feel they can do so, but anyone else can!

If one elder see himself as,not feel he can do so, or not capable, or not fit to catch himself with issue, or not with same thoughts as Company - then would be honestly from him to step away from such position.

Also, elders are not ordinary members of church.

And on - "but anyone else can". No they can not because "anyone else" have not "privileged informations". 

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Anna said:

Indeed it's hard to imagine, therefor I will logically deduce that this wasn't deliberate, but rather a mistake that has been going on for decades in all institutions, including government institutions and the courts. If you read the articles I posted the links to you will begin to understand. NO ONE deliberately, and with malicious intent allows a child to be molested.

Generally i can agree with thoughts you present here. Because i, as you, want to believe that human are honest and sincere, always.  But i am wrong in such conclusion :)))).

There is a proverb;   "fish stinks from the head"

[Evacuated]

6 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

There is absolutely no reason why elders need an allegation to be Scripturally substantiated in order to report to the police, because reporting does not convict a person. The police need to do an investigation to find evidence of wrongdoing, but the police have capabilities to uncover wrongdoing that the elders do not have.

There has been reference in this discussion about policy being good in theory but not practical in reality. This is an example of the same. It relates to a serious issue that seems to slip out of the frame in this highly emotive area of discussion.

Even Wikipedia refers to the fact that "Allegations of sexual abuse can be inherently traumatic to the child when false. People falsely charged with sexual abuse often face numerous problems of their own. The nature of the crime leveled at them often evokes an overwhelming sense of betrayal. In highly publicized cases, the general public has a strong tendency to summarily assume the accused is guilty, leading to very serious social stigma. The accused, even if acquitted, risks being fired from their job, losing their friends and other relationships, having their property vandalized, and being harassed by those believing them to be guilty."

I could cite examples of the trauma faced and experienced by those falsely accused, even to the point of suicide and murder, but there are organisations dedicated to defending and supporting such victims that provide a wealth of information to enable a more balanced consideration of this matter from a range of  perspectives. Linked below is one example.

https://factuk.org/

To say that, in the case of unproven allegations of child abuse, "reporting does not convict" displays a level of naivety, which, when compounded by an unqualified belief that "the police have capabilities to uncover wrongdoing" can only lead to gross injustice.

I am afraid that the finding of solutions to problems in this area of tragic evil requires the concentrated effort of far better minds than those exhibiting such emotive, unbalanced, and limited perspective.

Just sayin'.........   

[Evacuated]

13 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

fish stinks from the head

"Of course, the proverb isn't a lesson in piscine biology. The phrase appears to have been used in Turkey in a metaphorical rather than literal sense from the outset. That's just as well as, in reality, it is the guts of fish that rot and stink before the head."

Get real!!

[Srecko Sostar]

18 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Get real!!

FISH ROTS FROM THE HEAD DOWN -Idioms

Meaning

It refers to failing organizations and how the blame of it should be on its ‘head’ that is its leadership.

:)) I am not from Turkey, hahah, but not also far away (cca 1800 km). 

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

https://factuk.org/

Latest News

• Warning to all wrongfully accused: keep all your records safe even when you think your case is closed

  Retain All Your Records in a Safe Dry Place even when you think Your Case Is Closed This may be especially pertinent […

This remind me on  WT Letter addressed to all elders to DESTROY all notes and previous  WTLetters  on child molestation issues.