Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

when compounded by an unqualified belief that "the police have capabilities to uncover wrongdoing" can only lead to gross injustice.

Love those police! 

What strikes me here (this is no reference to @Noble Berean) is that people who loathe the police in some contexts absolutely love them in others.

They have a lot of capabilities that I sincerely appreciate. But they have a lot of capabilities in Russia, too, and they direct some of them toward our brothers.

[Noble Berean]

9 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

To say that, in the case of unproven allegations of child abuse, "reporting does not convict" displays a level of naivety, which, when compounded by an unqualified belief that "the police have capabilities to uncover wrongdoing" can only lead to gross injustice.

I am afraid that the finding of solutions to problems in this area of tragic evil requires the concentrated effort of far better minds than those exhibiting such emotive, unbalanced, and limited perspective.

I understand that false allegations occur, but the well-being of a child trumps the psychological trauma of a false allegation. So, that really isn't an excuse not to report. Of course the police are not perfect, but they are more capable of doing a proper, thorough investigation than the elders. The police can obtain warrants to search property and uncover evidence, but the elders must rely on willing testimony. The elders are very limited in their investigation capabilities. In that way, the police can act as an aid to the elders. But it seems pretty clear that the organization wants to stay as far from the legal system as it possibly can.

[Witness]

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

FISH ROTS FROM THE HEAD DOWN -Idioms

Meaning

It refers to failing organizations and how the blame of it should be on its ‘head’ that is its leadership.

Scripture supports this "idiom".

"Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They make you worthless; They speak a vision of their own heart, Not from the mouth of the Lord."  Jer 23:16

The entire 'fish' has stunk before, and it can again.

 Moreover the Lord says:

“Because the daughters of Zion are haughty,
And walk with outstretched necks
And wanton eyes,
Walking and mincing as they go,
Making a jingling with their feet,
Therefore the Lord will strike with a scab
The crown of the head of the daughters of Zion,
And the Lord will uncover their secret parts.”

 In that day the Lord will take away the finery:
The jingling anklets, the scarves, and the crescents;
 The pendants, the bracelets, and the veils;
 The headdresses, the leg ornaments, and the headbands;
The perfume boxes, the charms,
 and the rings;
The nose jewels,
 the festal apparel, and the mantles;
The outer garments, the purses,
 and the mirrors;
The fine linen, the turbans, and the robes.

 And so it shall be:

Instead of a sweet smell there will be a stench;
Instead of a sash, a rope;
Instead of well-set hair, baldness;
Instead of a rich robe, a girding of sackcloth;
And branding instead of beauty.
 Your men shall fall by the sword,
And your mighty in the war.

 Her gates shall lament and mourn,
And she being desolate shall sit on the ground.  Isa 3:16-26

[Witness]

3 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

But it seems pretty clear that the organization wants to stay as far from the legal system as it possibly can.

Unless it can benefit them in Russia.

[Noble Berean]

7 minutes ago, Witness said:

Unless it can benefit them in Russia.

Well that's just human nature isn't it? They want to use it when it helps them out and not use it when it hurts them. At the end of the day, the goal of the organization is to act in its best interests. I think that the Russia situation still fits what I said about avoiding the legal system as much as possible, because that was an extreme case when the organization felt the courts were the only option left.

[Srecko Sostar]

How looks Bible advice if you somehow came to legal problems with others?! Indirectly or directly question also arise; would WT Legal Department need to reconsider "tactics and theocratic warfare" they using in connection with child molestation cases?! Or does Jesus words are counsel for members (rank and file aka ordinary members of an organization) only?

 Matthew 5:25,26:

"Be quick to settle matters with your legal opponent, while you are with him on the way there, so that somehow the opponent may not turn you over to the judge, and the judge to the court attendant, and you get thrown into prison. 26 I say to you for a fact, you will certainly not come out of there until you have paid over your last small coin."

 

[Evacuated]

16 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

but the well-being of a child trumps the psychological trauma of a false allegation.

So you are in the Lord Denning school of thought on justice then:

“It may be better that innocent people should serve life sentences than that the law should be seen to make gross errors” (Lord Justice Denning 1899 – 1999)

Also, do you feel that "the psychological trauma of a false allegation." does not apply to the child at the centre of it?

You are adding confirmation to my view that finding of solutions to the problems in this area of tragic evil requires the concentrated effort of far better minds than those exhibiting the emotive, unbalanced, and limited perspective that appears in these postings.

 

[Noble Berean]

8 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

So you are in the Lord Denning school of thought on justice then:

“It may be better that innocent people should serve life sentences than that the law should be seen to make gross errors” (Lord Justice Denning 1899 – 1999)

Also, do you feel that "the psychological trauma of a false allegation." does not apply to the child at the centre of it?

You are adding confirmation to my view that finding of solutions to the problems in this area of tragic evil requires the concentrated effort of far better minds than those exhibiting the emotive, unbalanced, and limited perspective that appears in these postings.

 

There is no perfect justice system except Jehovah's justice system. At this stage, we have to make due with the imperfect systems we live under. Yes, there are miscarriages of justice in the legal system, but our organization's justice system isn't free from mistakes either. I'm asking you...why would you even want to take the chance of a sexual predator persisting in the congregation?

[TrueTomHarley]

21 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

They want to use it when it helps them out and not use it when it hurts them.

Yeah, that's how I interact with the police, too. Can you think of anyone who doesn't? Can you think of any organization that doesn't?

It may change, though. I have offered my suggestion for next year's yeartext: "Salvation belongs to the police."

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, Noble Berean said:

why would you even want to take the chance of a sexual predator persisting in the congregation?

Well, let's report the lot then?

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

The entire 'fish' has stunk before

Actually a lot worse than stunk, and, on observation, it's still the same:

Is 1:5-6:

"The whole head is sick, And the whole heart is diseased.   From the sole of the foot to the head, nothing is healthy. There are wounds and bruises and open sores —They have not been treated or bound up or softened with oil."

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Matthew 5:25,26:

"Be quick to settle matters with your legal opponent, while you are with him on the way there, so that somehow the opponent may not turn you over to the judge, and the judge to the court attendant, and you get thrown into prison. 26 I say to you for a fact, you will certainly not come out of there until you have paid over your last small coin."

Oh, that certainly explains why the title of this topic even exists.