Who can really explain *GOG from MAGOG* ?

[Witness]

On 9/8/2017 at 10:52 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Her posts rarely stray far

At least I am consistent, and I don’t have to pull out a chart to explain a new doctrine such as “this generation”.  "What a tangled web we weave..."   Two scriptures are all you need to explain it.

On 9/8/2017 at 10:52 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

from her claim that the 'phony' annointed ones have somehow outmanuevered and cheated the 'true' anointed ones

The GB are authentic anointed ones, the majority of the elder body are the phony ones;  but as we have seen many times in the history of God’s chosen people, they can fall.  Deut 29:14-19; Heb 12:15-17  The remnant faces a most difficult test fabricated by Satan using these fallen ones – taking him up on the offer he proposes; the same offer placed before Jesus, and before all of the anointed ones.  Matt 24:21,22   He makes it comfortable, a spiritual habitation thought to be one of peace and security, that salvation can only be possible through one’s association with it.

 A “powerful delusion” is just that – powerful.  2 Thess 2:11

“Powerful” - efficiency ("energy"):—OPERATION, strong, (effectual) working. “In the NT used only of superhuman power, whether of God or of the Devil”

 “He (false prophet/beast from the earth) was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, (organization) that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.”  Rev 13:15

Those faithful to Christ listen only to Christ.   There is no man that is their mediator – or yours.   Their “light shines” before all men, light directly from Christ.  Matt 5:13-16; 2 Pet 1:19; Phil 2:15  The anointed within the organization “buy” their light from a wicked slave, provided through a myriad of  books; outdated, discarded and replaced. Rev 13:16,17  Although they have the ability to serve the Father and Jesus on their own merit, a “spirit-directed” iconic image stands in their way; as well as the fear of losing everything, if they do. Matt 10:34-39

On 9/8/2017 at 10:52 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

which she identifies with, and she buttresses her remarks with myriad misapplied (in my view) scriptures. 

I am faithful and loyal to the Lord, not to an organization.  My words mean nothing unless backed up by scripture, unlike the GB whose words mean everything with little scripture to validate them.  

I can’t help but feel you didn’t take the time to read any I provided.

Isa 5:20,21

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

DUH!

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Actually, that is a mis-translation ... the first one should be PUS, and the second one PUL.

And in modern times the Libyan Navy has glass bottom ships, so you can see the Libyan Air Force.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

FIFI sleeps with the fishes .... she took the aircraft's controls, but alas, it did not go well.

No thumbs.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

OK, Ok, OK ... the aircraft landed safely and no one was hurt ... I was trying to protect her puppies from mob retribution.

I started out with 16 joke writers, and JWI forced me to get rid of the last one when it did not go well ....

.... sigh ...

 

[Shiwiii]

On 9/9/2017 at 7:56 PM, Witness said:

The GB are authentic anointed ones, the majority of the elder body are the phony ones;

How do YOU make this determination? I seriously want to know.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

How do YOU make this determination? I seriously want to know.

These are my words that I attributed to her. She countered them with something else. 

I don't exactly treat Witness fairly. Hers is a concern out there in the ether somewhere, that I cannot get my head around, and it does not seem relevant enough to me to try. I just slam her when she maligns an arrangement that satisfies me as God-directed - it's the role I have chosen here. And she responds with a barrage of 'who cares?' verses that she instructs me to review closely - she likes to instruct, too much for my taste. To say they are "who cares?" verses may seem disrespectful to God. They are not "who cares?" but they seem so to me in the context she uses them, as she wages her private war with others over whose anointing is more equal than others. It just bores me, and I move on.

That said, I don't want to put my words in her mouth and have people believe they are hers.

And it is NOT the same with you, JTR. Don't carry on about my "projecting" when you rail on about "Crisis News Network" being something you would protest. I have witnessed you decrying it is "Clinton News Network" - thus taking a definite stance on a debate in the world. Look, it offers not the most balanced coverage in the world - that's for sure - but I refrain from echoing the war-cries of either faction in this decaying system of things.

[Witness]

On 9/11/2017 at 7:16 AM, Shiwiii said:

How do YOU make this determination? I seriously want to know.

Even though the GB dismisses Jesus’ parables as just warnings, Jesus tells us there is more behind them than what appears on the surface.

 ^“The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”  He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.  Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing, they do not hear or understand.”  Matt 13:10-13

He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, “‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’  Luke 8:10

The parable of the wicked slave, as with all of Jesus’ parables, holds the secrets of the kingdom of God, the signs of the times; which is knowledge that God grants individuals to understand. It is ironic that the parable of the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matt 24:48-51 holds validity with the GB until it speaks of the “wicked slave”.  Apparently, it is at that point that the parable’s application ends, and Jesus’ words are held up as just a story, - a warning. 

Each anointed one is to be found faithful and discreet upon Jesus’ return.  Yet, he did appoint a steward over God’s “household” of slaves, and the (composite) GB act in that capacity. Luke 12:42; 1 Tim 3:15; 5:8, 1 Cor 12:28   However, they fulfill the parable of the “wicked slave” who “beats” the other anointed slaves. Matt 24:48-51

The chain of events begins when this slave expected the arrival of the Master sooner. (failed dates, 1914) What is the burr in the GB’s saddle, if not the understanding of “this generation” which must constantly be changed to support the teaching of 1914?  Suppression of his fellow slaves under him, who question the GB’s teachings on this, is the next link in the chain, and the wicked slave begins to “eat and drink with drunkards”.

Who are the drunkards, and what are they drunk on? They are those whom the wicked slave has set up an alliance with, to carry out the “beating” – the elder body; and who are ‘drunk’ on their given power and prominence.  Rev 9:1-3; 13:15,7;19:20; 11:7; Mark 10:42,43; Matt 23:34; Rev 18:3

I called the elder body phony anointed ones.  What I mean, is that they have replaced the authentic anointed ones in the role of the “priesthood”, and are regarded as being appointed by Holy Spirit, according to scriptural guidance.  I use to consider it rather ignorant to believe all prospective “elders” were approved by the GB’s prayers and answers received; now they describe this appoint based on scripture - scripture that in reality applies to the anointed.   1 Pet 2:5,9; 2 Thess 2:4; Matt 24:15; Rev 13:5-7

Another way to determine if the GB are of the genuine anointed is found in 2 Thess 2:1-4 where it speaks of the coming of Christ announced in the form of a spoken word, letter or spirit (prophesy),“allegedly from us” – from another anointed one. Clearly, the coming of Christ has been announced by the GB. And what followed, is the elder body seating itself as the “man of lawlessness” in God’s “Temple” (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22)   Rom 6:16

There’s a pattern to discern of the premature timing of Christ being the focus of these genuine, yet fallen anointed ones.  One of the main reason anointed and all are disfellowshipped, is for the rejection of 1914. As soon as I answered “no” to the question, “do you believe that God’s Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914”, it was immediately stated by the elder that I would be announced as disfellowshipped at the next meeting. John 16:1,2; Rev 11:7-10 

“He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.”  Dan 7:25

“Horns” represent kings, and the kings in Revelation are the Chosen ones. Dan 7:8,24; Rev 17:12; 1:5,6; 5:9,10  The “beast from the earth” that expects “all the earth”  to glorify the organization/wild beast has “two horns” like a lamb – two representing “truth” as if these “kings” speak on behalf of, or as, Christ (Matt 24:24) – yet they speak like a dragon. Rev 13:11,14,15; John 8:44 This beast represents the fallen anointed GB and are now false prophets used by Satan to carry out his plan, to destroy those in Christ. (Rev 8:10,11;16:13) Surely...surely, it can be determined that Gog and Magog who target the anointed ones does not come from the most suspected source in Satan’s world – political entities. Rev 20:7-9  It would come from the least expected place, and which Christ’s parables help us to discern. 

There is evidence in the time of the end of the presence of both a wicked slave, as well as a “faithful and discreet slave” who has been assigned to care for God’s household. Matt 24:46 Since the GB has proclaimed that they are the only “faithful and discreet slave”, they fit the parable of the wicked slave; the same parable that unlocks the knowledge of the coming Kingdom of God.  Isa 66:5; John 16:1,2; Rev 11:7; 13:15; 6:9; 20:4; 17:6 

The choice is before all anointed slaves of Christ to be found either “foolish and wicked”, or “faithful and discreet”. Prov 19:9; Luke 12:20; Isa 28:11,14,15,17-22,29; Matt 25:21; Mark 13:35; Luke 17:10; John 12:26; Rev 19:10;22:9; 16:15

 

 

[Witness]

On 9/11/2017 at 8:10 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

she likes to instruct, too much for my taste.

Funny you should say that, since every “slave” of Christ should be teaching the people, not just a select few.  They “teach” through the avenue of the gift given them within the Body.   I guess it’s in the “blood”. Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; John 6:53; 5:1,2,4,5,16; John 13:20  

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

Funny you should say this because I was just reading this, and couldn't resist posting it, which for all I know, may serve as the perfect negative illustration of the truth of what it says. :

"And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ"  Eph 4:11,12

If the anointed accepts and understand the spiritual role of each bodily member, the gifts are shared. The whole body is enhanced at “teaching”, “healing”, comforting, etc,  all under the same Head, Christ.  One who comforts can be equipped to teach, etc. 

“A manifestation of the Spirit is given to each person for the common good” 1 Cor 12:7

So, as James says, not all should  assume the role of primary teacher, as what is taught could be destructive to the entire anointed Body. 1 Cor 12:29,4,11; 12:17,18  This is how it is with the GB and their “teaching” – a “world of unrighteousness”, defiling the entire anointed body.  Also, any other “gift” of the anointed ones who must obey them, may as well be nonexistent.   1 Cor 1:10-13;25,28-30; Col 2:19

 

[Shiwiii]

Please do not take anything I am about to say as anything more than secondary questions. I appreciate your willingness to answer my questions and being forthright in your responses. 

 

22 hours ago, Witness said:

Even though the GB dismisses Jesus’ parables as just warnings, Jesus tells us there is more behind them than what appears on the surface.

 ^“The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”  He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.  Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing, they do not hear or understand.”  Matt 13:10-13

He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, “‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’  Luke 8:10

So by this comparison, and others in your post, you believe that Jesus' parables are literal but described in a parable for the sake of keeping the true meanings from those who would/will distort them? 

22 hours ago, Witness said:

It is ironic that the parable of the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matt 24:48-51 holds validity with the GB until it speaks of the “wicked slave”.  Apparently, it is at that point that the parable’s application ends, and Jesus’ words are held up as just a story, - a warning. 

I find this also interesting. Applying only what they want to apply, instead of the complete picture. Makes me wonder how the R&F eat this up without digging deeper into what is being taught. We are told to question and search to find out if what we are being taught is true and in complete harmony with scripture. Acts 17:11

22 hours ago, Witness said:

Each anointed one is to be found faithful and discreet upon Jesus’ return.  Yet, he did appoint a steward over God’s “household” of slaves, and the (composite) GB act in that capacity. Luke 12:42; 1 Tim 3:15; 5:8, 1 Cor 12:28   However, they fulfill the parable of the “wicked slave” who “beats” the other anointed slaves. Matt 24:48-51

When? When did Jesus appoint anyone or any group over anything? John was to take care of His mother (John 19:27), Peter was to build the church (Matt 16:18&19), but no mention of a group of men to be appointed over anything. So my question on this part is, when did this take place and what proof is there to support it?

 

22 hours ago, Witness said:

What is the burr in the GB’s saddle, if not the understanding of “this generation” which must constantly be changed to support the teaching of 1914?

agreed

 

22 hours ago, Witness said:

Who are the drunkards, and what are they drunk on? They are those whom the wicked slave has set up an alliance with, to carry out the “beating” – the elder body; and who are ‘drunk’ on their given power and prominence.  Rev 9:1-3; 13:15,7;19:20; 11:7; Mark 10:42,43; Matt 23:34; Rev 18:3

interesting application, which I'm sure many jw's would not agreed or atleast wish away into the corn field. Having never been a jw, I can see the parallel, but it can also be applied to the hierarchy of many denominations. 

 

22 hours ago, Witness said:

Another way to determine if the GB are of the genuine anointed is found in 2 Thess 2:1-4 where it speaks of the coming of Christ announced in the form of a spoken word, letter or spirit (prophesy),“allegedly from us” – from another anointed one. Clearly, the coming of Christ has been announced by the GB.

So by this logic, is Harold Camping also anointed in your eyes?   In Matthew and Luke, Jesus tells us that many will come professing to come in His name and saying  look here or look there, He is in the inner rooms and for us NOT to believe them. Why would those people in Matthew 24:24-27 say Jesus would be in the inner rooms? Isn't this because the average person could NOT access the inner rooms to see for themselves? That place was reserved for the priesthood. Wouldn't that be the equivalent of an invisible parousia?   

22 hours ago, Witness said:

There’s a pattern to discern of the premature timing of Christ being the focus of these genuine, yet fallen anointed ones.  One of the main reason anointed and all are disfellowshipped, is for the rejection of 1914. As soon as I answered “no” to the question, “do you believe that God’s Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914”, it was immediately stated by the elder that I would be announced as disfellowshipped at the next meeting. John 16:1,2; Rev 11:7-10 

Wasn't the same thing done to those who received blood fractions prior to the acceptance of such? A jw must adjust their thinking on a whim, if the gb says so and if they do not........Cathloic excommunication......errr.....dissfellow.........same thing.

22 hours ago, Witness said:

...and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.”  Dan 7:25

seems very similar to what it going on today in MANY religions. Making up new "laws" the people have to abide by, dress and appearance, education, adherence to all that we say and deviation is unacceptable, even though we are only human.

22 hours ago, Witness said:

This beast represents the fallen anointed GB and are now false prophets used by Satan to carry out his plan, to destroy those in Christ.

I do not agree nor disagree here on this point, and the reason why is because this is prophesy and it is best understood after the events take place. On the other hand, it could very well apply to the gb, but that is assuming they once were correct at some point in time. No real solid tie here for me. 

22 hours ago, Witness said:

Surely...surely, it can be determined that Gog and Magog who target the anointed ones does not come from the most suspected source in Satan’s world – political entities. Rev 20:7-9  It would come from the least expected place, and which Christ’s parables help us to discern. 

There is evidence in the time of the end of the presence of both a wicked slave, as well as a “faithful and discreet slave” who has been assigned to care for God’s household.

The choice is before all anointed slaves of Christ to be found either “foolish and wicked”, or “faithful and discreet”. 

I somewhat agree that it will come from an unexpected place, but that would be unexpected by those who do not keep watch. I feel we all have the ability to be either the faithful or wicked slave in that particular parable, because it really boils down to are you faithful to Jesus or not? That is exactly what He was saying, because when He comes back, He will reward or punish. Are we not all our brother's keeper? Are we not all told to treat others how we want to be treated? Are we not held accountable for how we teach the little ones?  We are all responsible for our part of God's Kingdom, and if we are given just a small piece and do well, we shall be given more based upon our faith. Its not about if we fail, because we WILL, it is about our heart and faith. Moses.....failed, Abraham......failed, David......failed, we ......fail, but it is our hearts God reads. So on your last point I fully agree. 

Thank you

 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

It is SO REFRESHING for me not to care anymore about who "Gog of Magog" is, was, or might be.

If I understood it fully, to the best of my knowledge it would have absolutely NO practical application to any aspect of my life.

If I am wrong ... please correct me.

Until then, I am leaving this load of rocks that I used to carry around on the side of the road.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.