Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

[Srecko Sostar]

2 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Yes, I've been waiting to read some reasoning from you as well!!!

No, i will not wrote more, even not some verse from Proverbs because it would seems manipulative to you if i would quote them here :)))))))))))   

[Srecko Sostar]

2 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Fire away!!! NO ONE is preventing you from exercising your right to "free will". That, in essence, is what gets people into trouble, especially sick minds that exercise it. I just happen to know what your overall view is about the Watchtower, that I can apply the following, honestly!!

Romans 16:18 Such people are not serving Christ our Lord; they are serving their own personal interests. By smooth talk and glowing words they deceive innocent people.

you do manipulate with this bible verse on how to apply it on those who have opposite opinion compared with yours :)))

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Right.

 

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please, show me place where G. Jackson said that, that i would be able to check for myself, thanks! 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

That in effect is what’s going on in San Diego by a Judge’s ruling that was struck down, and now, he is overreaching (abuse) by his authority and using it as an excuse to smite

I have stated before my thought that the Trump/Hillary election is a god-send for Christians. Not because of the results, but because it has forced all the crazies from their holes out into the open. It is ever so hard to deny 2 Timothy 3:1-5 now, whereas in the past if someone disagreed those verses especially apply today, there was not much you could do about it.

It is also demonstrated clearly that the biblical 'mountains' and 'hills' today consist merely of highly paid crazies. News means nothing in itself. You simply look for who or what the journalist is trying to torpedo.

It is true with the court system. Trump orders this or that and the Obama-appointed judges throw it out. It once was just the reverse, but was not so highly publicized. The point is that court rulings don't mean much of anything today - you simply have to look at which agenda has won out.

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I suppose that's true - how can one argue with the value of learning - but the challenge is, as soon as you think you know anything about law, some orangutan throws in a - um - monkey wrench and you are right back where you started. The law is fantastically complex. The cynics (not me, of course) would say that it is made so deliberately for the sake of job security and expansion in a high-growth industry.

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, it is a noble sentiment - but nobody is going to do it. We are just going to shoot our mouths off.

We have long been trained that way. It didn't start with O.J. but his is the oldest vivid example I recall. The public is whipped into near hysteria by constant repetition of a certain scene. That scene arouses powerful thought and (mostly) emotion, but it is only 2% of the facts. A few months later the jury convenes. They hear (ideally) 100% of the facts. But when they reach the 'wrong' verdict, there is universal outrage.

Consistently, there really shouldn't be any trials anymore. Put everything on Facebook and render verdicts according to likes. People are not inclined to believe a court verdict anyway, if it is not what they want. Why waste everyone's time? Nobody likes jury duty. Think of the money that would be saved! @adminshould get cracking on it because he wants to go big. He is tired of a website full of religious nuts. I mean, he likes it, but he wants to build. He doesn't want to cater to anyone's corporate agenda. He should expand into this. He will become so influential that he will be able to tell Mark Zuckerberg to use the service entrance. Even @The Librarian(the old biddy) will be able to do so. More children to tyranize - she will love it!

It's a horrible thing - for respected institutions to be so easily made impotent. However, the 'silver lining' for anyone being slammed in court, whether justly or not, is that they can say: 'Do you really believe that joke of a system?"

It is also why you should never criticize one who chooses mostly, or even solely, to read Watchtower publications. Yes, they will miss a lot, and their ability to relate to certain others will be impeded. But they will not have to experience the sensation of the ping pong ball ever slammed this way or that by Players intent upon dividing the human population. They won't have to weigh every word to figure out who is spinning them lies and what they are.

[Anna]

 

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

3 hours ago, Anna said:

Right.

 

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please, show me place where G. Jackson said that, that i would be able to check for myself, thanks! 

Just give me a couple of hours. Just starting on dinner.

[Anna]

@Srecko Sostar

Testimony of G. Jackson at the ARC Public hearing 14/08/2015

(This is the word doc. version of the transcript, but it's easy to find in any format when you search key words such as "mandatory" or "easier")

 

P.15966

G. Jackson: “The point being, here, another aspect that an elder needs  to consider is he does not have the authority to lord it over or take over control of a family arrangement, where a person - let's say it is a victim who is 24 or 25 years of age - has a right to decide whether or not they will report that incident. They also respect the family arrangement that the appointed guardian, who is not the perpetrator, has  a certain right, too.  So this is the spiritual dilemma that we have, because at the same time, we want to make sure that children are cared for. So if the government does happen to make mandatory reporting, that will make this dilemma so much easier for us, because we all want the same goal,that children will be cared for properly”.

P.15967

G. Jackson: “But the point I was trying to make, Mr Stewart, is there are other scriptural factors that maybe make that a little complicated, and it would certainly be a lot easier if we had mandatory laws on that”.

The written word cannot convey emotion, but when I watched that part of the transcript, G. Jackson said it in a pleading, urging tone of voice. I can cut and post that part of the video here if anyone wants.

P.S.

On page 48 of the report you posted,  BCG, the victim apparently made this statement: "BCG told the Royal Commission that in her view it was essential that uniform mandatory reporting laws be introduced across Australia to apply to organisations like the Jehovah’s Witnesses in order to protect children".

This is such a silly and misleading statement. It makes it look like a “special” mandatory law has to be applied to the Jehovah’s Witness orq. to make them comply with the law, because they are so uncooperative. Mandatory reporting means mandatory to anyone. This is why G. Jackson said if mandatory reporting was implemented across the country it would make the job a lot easier for everyone as evident from the transcript. But in this report, there is no mention of that.  Only this silly comment above. That smells of bias to me!

 

[Noble Berean]

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

you are absolutely right, it is controversial for those who are not able to see  

And this isn't even new news. I've been hearing about child abuse in congregations on discussion forums for the past 7 years. It's just that now the organization is facing a significant number of child abuse lawsuits worldwide and governments are scrutinizing the religion's policies. And this has gotten the attention of the media.

[Noble Berean]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Mandatory reporting means mandatory to anyone. This is why G. Jackson said if mandatory reporting was implemented across the country it would make the job a lot easier for everyone as evident from the transcript. But in this report, there is no mention of that. 

I'm surprised to hear there's inconsistency on mandated reporting across Australia, but it doesn't defend the organization's policies. Unlike other institutions, the organization of JWs is a religion that prides itself on having a high moral standard far surpassing the law of the land. The elders act as shepherds for the flock. They are supposed to be protecting the flock from predators. So, elders have a moral responsibility as Christians to protect the flock, and that is the case regardless of what the law of the land says.

In the case of sexual abuse of minors, elders should air on the side of caution, because it involves the well-being of children. There should be a sense of urgency to protect others in the congregation from a sexual predator. You wouldn't perceive child molestation in the same way you perceive smoking a cigarette. Smoking is morally wrong, but molestation is a heinous crime that hurts children. Perhaps you could wait around for two witnesses to a smoker, but you shouldn't wait on sexual abuse. There is absolutely no reason why elders need an allegation to be Scripturally substantiated in order to report to the police, because reporting does not convict a person. The police need to do an investigation to find evidence of wrongdoing, but the police have capabilities to uncover wrongdoing that the elders do not have. So, the police are an ally to elders in this regard. It's hard to imagine that elders sat on allegations of sex abuse and allowed predators to prey on congregations for years. I don't know how that sits well with your Bible-trained conscience.

[Anna]

40 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

governments are scrutinizing the religion's policies. And this has gotten the attention of the media.

Governments are scrutinizing their own policies because they have been found inadequate.

http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/violence/clinical-response-csa/en/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/20816521_Incest_victims_Inadequate_help_by_professionals

https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ411733

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/18/justice-secretary-urged-to-rewrite-child-sexual-abuse-guidelines

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/808730

https://www.ovc.gov/publications/factshts/monograph.htm

https://www.princeton.edu/futureofchildren/publications/docs/04_02_07.pdf

And lots more, too many to post...

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

You start that adventure as a child, and then work yourself up to maturity. After you have matured spiritually, you are commissioned by God’s Holy Spirit to TEACH those that oppose, or do not understand the meaning and Christ purpose in this earth; to proclaim God’s good news of GODS KINGDOM.

Okay

 

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Where is it written in scripture, that you can recall, where a spiritually mature Christian can REVERT back to a child spiritually, and then, complain, they don’t understand?

Nowhere

 

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Remember, my view as a theologian is in understanding the complexities of Scripture.

Theologian is not a word we generally use. I am not one.

 

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

This is where the intellectual, divide, with reasoning and wisdom by either using the understanding of secular structure or bible principles. The “chaffy” is, there is NO excuse for the mundane!!!

I am afraid I do not know where you are coming from, Allen. I think that I would like to. I am not sure of your role in this play.

[Noble Berean]

18 minutes ago, Anna said:

Governments are scrutinizing their own policies because they have been found inadequate.

http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/violence/clinical-response-csa/en/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/20816521_Incest_victims_Inadequate_help_by_professionals

https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ411733

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/18/justice-secretary-urged-to-rewrite-child-sexual-abuse-guidelines

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/808730

https://www.ovc.gov/publications/factshts/monograph.htm

https://www.princeton.edu/futureofchildren/publications/docs/04_02_07.pdf

And lots more, too many to post...

And a willingness to change for the better is a good thing. I would respect the org if it would acknowledge its errors and make necessary changes. But the organization seems set in its ways.