Why won't the head of the wt org admit it?

[Shiwiii]

Why won't the head of the wt org admit that abuse is a problem within the society (yes, I understand that j jackson has in a round about way admitted this) and that they are willing to accept help to protect the people within the org? Is it PRIDE? The Catholic Church has offered help to the jws in the upcoming Holland investigation. They're been there and done that and know what it takes to keep on ticking. The government of Australia has given recommendations.  It appears that the head of the wt is more concerned with getting money, real estate, constant requests for voluntary donations, taking on the loans from local kh's only to make those payments by the local kh endless, special announcements and written articles on how to leave your estate to the wt (just make sure if its land that it is able to be sold), etc.  Why is the focus not on the problem that keep rearing its head worldwide? The governments of The United States, Australia, the UK, Canada and most recently Holland all have seen that the wt is not about to help the situation, but rather do their best to hinder it. What good reason is there for the obstruction of justice and complete disregard for victims or the countries in which these things are being investigated? How can one believe that this org is being used by God at all? Doesn't the Bible say at 1 Peter 2:13-20 to be subject to those who govern over you and by doing right you silence the ignorance of foolish men? Seems to me that the wt leadership is doing the exact opposite. 

 

WHY? 

[Witness]

6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Why won't the head of the wt org admit that abuse is a problem within the society (yes, I understand that j jackson has in a round about way admitted this) and that they are willing to accept help to protect the people within the org? Is it PRIDE? The Catholic Church has offered help to the jws in the upcoming Holland investigation. They're been there and done that and know what it takes to keep on ticking. The government of Australia has given recommendations.  It appears that the head of the wt is more concerned with getting money, real estate, constant requests for voluntary donations, taking on the loans from local kh's only to make those payments by the local kh endless, special announcements and written articles on how to leave your estate to the wt (just make sure if its land that it is able to be sold), etc.

2 Tim 3:1-9 comes to mind.

6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

How can one believe that this org is being used by God at all?

I was thinking this same thing today, Shiwiii.  How is it that a JW may scrutinize a company for its honesty and products before buying, such as a car, an appliance, a house;  yet, when it comes to justice and truth, which God would expect his worshipers to live by,  they look the other way?  Are their consciences seared just as the Watchtower’s leaders are?  1 Tim 4:1,2 There are so many factors – a powerful force leading to “blindness”; the desire of the “flesh” manifested in what the organization is and produces; the fear of man, and apathy.  2 Cor 4:4; Matt 15:14; Matt 6:19-21; 2 Pet 2:1-3; Acts 5:29        

All that you say, holds no light, but only darkness.  Worshipping God without strings attached brings one authentic deepfelt, security and love - for the Father and Jesus - enough to weather all adversity, which cannot be obtained under the Watchtower's dark canopy.  I wish they would all pack up and leave.  1 John 1:6

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

It's all about MONEY.

When you think of another explanation, you would be wrong.

Follow the money.

Money ALWAYS tells the truth.

[Witness]

Yes, which is the root, explaining the works behind 2 Tim 3:1-9   

“For the love of money is the root of all (“each, every, any, all, the whole”) evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”  1 Tim 6:10

Luke 3:9 – “The ax is already at the root of the trees. (Zech 11:2; Amos 4:9; Isa 10:19; 10:33 [Zech 4:11-14; Rev 11:4; Isa 61:1-3]) Therefore, every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

If anyone revels in the “works of the flesh” which include the divergence of worshiping in Spirit, to worshiping through the product of a fleshly desire of men; the building of an earthly organization – they also become slaves to money.  Gal 5:19-21; 6:7,8; James 3:13-16

Matt 6:24 - “No one can serve two masters, since either he will hate one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

“The Spirit is the one who gives life. The flesh doesn’t help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.”  John 6:63

 

 

[Shiwiii]

I agree it is about the money, but....................How can the average jw accept the words coming out of their mouths?

How can the average jw not see what we see? 

How can the average jw not understand that this isn't "apostate lies" or fake news when it involves multiple countries? 

How can the average jw put their faith in an organization who is robbing the local kh's? 

How can the average jw..............makes my head hurt that there are people being scammed and lied to but they refuse to research and think for themselves. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

agree it is about the money, but....................How can the average jw accept the words coming out of their mouths?

How can the average jw not see what we see? 

How can the average jw not understand that this isn't "apostate lies" or fake news when it involves multiple countries? 

How can the average jw put their faith in an organization who is robbing the local kh's? 

How can the average jw..............makes my head hurt that there are people being scammed and lied to but they refuse to research and think for themselves. 

Because most of us, by definition ..... are AVERAGE.

Being average is nothing to be ashamed of ...

... but it's NOT a bragging point.

[Witness]

9 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

How can the average jw..............makes my head hurt that there are people being scammed and lied to but they refuse to research and think for themselves. 

2 Thess 2:9-12

[Space Merchant]

On 2/21/2018 at 4:45 PM, Shiwiii said:

Why won't the head of the wt org admit that abuse is a problem within the society (yes, I understand that j jackson has in a round about way admitted this) and that they are willing to accept help to protect the people within the org? Is it PRIDE? The Catholic Church has offered help to the jws in the upcoming Holland investigation. They're been there and done that and know what it takes to keep on ticking. The government of Australia has given recommendations.  It appears that the head of the wt is more concerned with getting money, real estate, constant requests for voluntary donations, taking on the loans from local kh's only to make those payments by the local kh endless, special announcements and written articles on how to leave your estate to the wt (just make sure if its land that it is able to be sold), etc.  Why is the focus not on the problem that keep rearing its head worldwide? The governments of The United States, Australia, the UK, Canada and most recently Holland all have seen that the wt is not about to help the situation, but rather do their best to hinder it. What good reason is there for the obstruction of justice and complete disregard for victims or the countries in which these things are being investigated? How can one believe that this org is being used by God at all? Doesn't the Bible say at 1 Peter 2:13-20 to be subject to those who govern over you and by doing right you silence the ignorance of foolish men? Seems to me that the wt leadership is doing the exact opposite. 

 

WHY? 

I believe it was addressed, specially when you take into account the case studies and the final reports of the ARC and before that. What can be done is to educate the elders and better clarify the rules, as the ARC addressed this in accordance with the rules the JWs follow, which is said to be biblical. I wouldn't call it pride though, if you understood why the name of God is used by the group and not what to say in God's name you'd understand, it says it in the bible and even Jews and Muslims today know what it means, therefore, not really much a thing about pride, especially if one openly uses the name and or a transliteration of the name of God.

The recommendations of the ARC were address, even including what the JWs have learn and what needs to be clarified to elders of the church. Also Catholics offering to help JWS? Do you have a source to this claim? Catholic leaders are not a fan of JWs, in fact, they had a hand in the situation with the ban of JWs in Russia as well as Egypt. Also there is no problem with a church taking in money and or resources since it is to push out the advancement of the Great Commission as well as maintaining the church of where people come to worship, this also includes the material used. As for situations that can't be helped, it isn't limited to JWs, everyone has problems regarding abuse, even to us Unitarians, to be ignorant of that just only proves the response is to target a sole group.

As for justice, you should know what Religious Laws and Secular Laws are and how they are not always so mixed in well with each other. With that in mind of what thing that sometimes keeps a church from taking action, thus not really ignoring  Peter 2:13-20. In addition to that, there is also religious exemption laws on the behalf of state and government, you may want to take a look into that as well, since of course, most states bare some responsibility, especially in the United States for proof of these can easily be found.

 

Technically what you are asking of is pretty much one-sided the way you worded out everything.

On 2/22/2018 at 12:33 PM, Shiwiii said:

I agree it is about the money, but....................How can the average jw accept the words coming out of their mouths?

How can the average jw not see what we see? 

How can the average jw not understand that this isn't "apostate lies" or fake news when it involves multiple countries? 

How can the average jw put their faith in an organization who is robbing the local kh's? 

How can the average jw..............makes my head hurt that there are people being scammed and lied to but they refuse to research and think for themselves. 

It isn't about money, as you claim it to be, and with what I have dug into, and seeing with what they also do with their money pretty much tells the world that unlike some Christians, money is use mostly to push the advancement of the gospel, keep their churches well kept, and maintaining it, etc as well as produce publications. I am also aware of the whole apartment/estate thing, but it would seem that it is used by their members, especially those that come in and out of the states. Now if they bought a jumbo jet, have private planes, and selling bibles at nearly $200 dollars a pop, then I would be convinced it is all about the money.

They do see it, you see it and make it out as something as it is not, which contrasts with our last conversation about Jesus' birth.

Apostates of any faith bare strong hatred for a group,an example is they will gun for anyone who thinks otherwise or anyone who oppose them.

How exactly are they being robbed? Money isn't be used for to advance the gospel?

I am pretty sure people know this, and there are people who know when cross a line that shouldn't be crossed is a bit much. An example would be a locales in Warwick actually defending JWs after a failed stunt by JW opponents stopped by an ex bible Student, a Passaic county graphic designer, interestingly a homosexual guy who even spoke up, and all 3 of them were attacked by JW opponents, who blamed the JWs for ceasing an assault until the truth and came out and these 3 were targeted, threatened, and insulted, until a commenter had to even go to Cedars that the JW opponents have gone too far. In addition to that, local churches did not get involved for the very reason of religious/Christian infighting.

Plus if you answers to questions that will suit you, the best place to ask them is a place where people share your views in targeting a faith.

PS: You wouldn't want to know what the graphic designer said in describing the masses that assaulted her channel before she and the others went private.

[Space Merchant]

On 2/22/2018 at 3:36 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Because most of us, by definition ..... are AVERAGE.

Being average is nothing to be ashamed of ...

... but it's NOT a bragging point.

Some people tend to see average people as monsters and or not part of the group.

Like seeing a Storm Trooper and automatically branding him as an enemy, when really he is not of either side and just wants out of the fight lol.

[TrueTomHarley]

On 2/21/2018 at 4:45 PM, Shiwiii said:

Why won't the head of the wt org admit that abuse is a problem within the society

Because it is not, relatively speaking.

Study 54 of the report, a follow-up to Study 29, makes possible an apples-to-apples comparison. Study 54 looked at the 17 instances of child abuse from the Witness organization that had been reported in the interim, from August 2015 to January 2017. Nine were historical cases and none involved an elder. All occurred in a familial setting. Of the seventeen, two had refused to report as they were adult survivors and it was their right not to report. The number of Witnesses in all Australia at the time was 67,418.

An apples-to-apples comparison becomes possible with a pool size large enough to be significant. Out of a total national Australian population of 23,968,973, The Australian Institute of Family Studies reported 41,622 notifications of child sexual abuse, (2014-2015) and the Commission likely reviewed some of them. Seemingly, the safest place a child could be was in the Jehovah’s Witness community, for proportionately, one would have expected 117 incidents, 100 more than the actual number. (The disparity is even greater, since a 17 month period for the Witnesses is compared to a 12-month period for all Australia) Do the math discover from these figures that a child is ten times safer in the Witness community than in the overall world.

What the ARC criticized was procedures for handling abuse cases that have occured. It was not their mission to look at whether, in a given setting, abuse was more or less likely to happen in the first place. Had it been, they would have awarded JWs a Family Glory award, just like Putin did to the Russian Witness family.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

TTH:

I would give that treatise TWO upvotes.

I find myself  agreeing with both your premise, and conclusion .... which is, for me, berry, berry  strange.

My concern is not what happened for the very reasons you stated ... but the institutionalized coverup,  and the intimidation ... and the threats of disfellowshipping. and the ACTUAL disfellowshipping of those who wanted to go to the Police, in the decades before the time period of your analysis, and the fact that in 1006 cases actually subpoenaed from the Society's own records ... NOT ONE was reported to the police.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

It’s NOT about the money. It’s about DUE PROCESS on, BOTH laws. As for witnesses, STOP! Playing politics since you swore your loyalty after baptism, John 15:19 to God, or STOP calling yourself a witness. Leviticus 19:35-36, Deuteronomy 25:13-16, Proverbs 20:10, Luke 20:25

Due process at one time was binding a witch suspect with ropes and dropping her into a full horse trough.

If she sank she was innocent.

If she floated she was guilty.

Remember, at the height of the Nazi plague on the Earth, they had a fully staffed "Department of Justice" and death warrants were signed, sealed delivered and executed with all due process.