Why won't the head of the wt org admit it?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

8 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

The AU Watchtower Branch Office *FREELY* turned over whatever discoverable material was necessary for the inquiry.

And SPECIFICALLY how do you know this to be a FACT, AllenSmith?

Remember, Gerritt Losch, GB, was SUBPOENAED to testify on a similar case in California, and even AFTER SUBPOENAED ... refused to testify, and the WTB&TS was fined 11.5 MILLION DOLLARS.

SPECIFICALLY how do you know this to be a FACT, AllenSmith, that the Australian Branch Office and Kingdom Halls FREELY turned over 5,000 and more SEALED blue envelopes of confidential data to the ARC ?

Hmmmmm ?

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Summons are a polite way of asking for something?

HahaHAHAhahaha

Next time you get a summons from the local court system, or the IRS ... just ignore it.

...You are in for a REVELATION !

If I point a gun at your head and request in a nice way that you eat dirt ... you may of your own free will eat that dirt ... but if I asked it WITHOUT the gun ... of your own free will you would NOT have eaten that dirt.

Sovereign States have the guns to back up their polite requests in the same manner.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

AllenSmith:

For someone like you who not only misunderstands the simplest analogies, but EVERYTHING ... there is nothing I can do in any discussion to help you.

What you wrote is a CLASSIC, so I am saving it here in case you come to your senses and erase it.

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

There you go, Rook! Stick with what you know best, Comedy. Just remember Dante’s divine comedy. ThereÂ’s always a place for you. Just like I told a born-again Christian one day in the 80Â’s in downtown LA that came up to me, and said? I am now going to punch you in the face and thereÂ’s nothing you can do about it, since you literally believe in scripture, because of Matthew 5:39?

I advised him to truly understand what Jesus was talking about. Therefore, if he was going to attack me because of my personal belief in serving God by following in Jesus footsteps? Then fine, I would turn the other cheek.

Then I said, but since your ACTION is to merely prove a point about scripture through violence, Reborns need NOT APPLY! And suffer the consequence. He immediately walked away!

The cop that took witness statements agreed, not only by man's law, I had every right to defend myself, but looking at the Bible under its proper understanding, after I explained and showed him? he said, that little devil would have been wrong. I did refuse to press charges due to ignorance of Bible understanding.

So, the NEXT TIME YOU WANT TO MAKE PERSONAL THREATS OF VIOLENCE OVER THE INTERNET WITH YOUR DELUSIONAL THOUGHT? You let me know because before you have a chance to stick a gun to my face, I would have beat you to a pulp. Just like I do with words. But anytime you feel BRAVE?

Back in my day. In my culture, sex offenders, a spousal abuser, child molesters got what they deserved by manÂ’s justice and by Gods. That FACT, there are hypocrites like you saying, the Watchtower has NEVER taken action or the Elders, about such issues in my eyes is COMPLETELY, a FALSE assumption!

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

4 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

I also archive many gems here. Not just for prosperity? but for LEGAL ACTION, should the need arise!

In the "Old Days" the anal retentive clergy would just threaten you with Hell.

[Shiwiii]

On 2/28/2018 at 10:00 PM, Space Merchant said:

One thing to note is that what is important is that the Watchtower will have to better clarify policies, rules and the like to some elders who are not as experience in handling such situations for any person who is inexperienced in something will not do their job any justice or any position they are appointed to.

Couldn't agree more with your view here. Sadly it is NOT the view of the wt. They came out after the ARC and stated that they will NOT be changing the two witness rule no matter who says what. Pedo's don't normally invite a viewing party. This is the loophole that, maybe wasn't designed for this, is the perfect avenue for repeat abuse. The octo-popes of wt know this, but refuse to change for some reason. 

On 2/28/2018 at 10:00 PM, Space Merchant said:

In addition to that, you are also ignoring that even predators themselves will even con their way into the heads of good persons so they won't get caught, in some situations, the predator can be very violent or the roles could easily be switched with the victim's relatives taking vengeance into their own hands, something of which I most defiantly know any JW wouldn't want to be involved in such, for even other institutions be it religious and or educational themselves wouldn't want to get involved either should things escalate.

oh I am not ignoring this point, but rather magnifying it. You are correct that an abuser uses clever ways of carrying out the abuse, but why make it eaiser? Why give them a loophole? 

 

On 2/28/2018 at 10:00 PM, Space Merchant said:

Check the reports again. For at least, they learnt something and this time they can better clarify things too for those who are not well-versed in handling such situations.

They've admitted that they will NOT change their stance. Maybe they did learn, but they refuse to put it into practice. 

On 2/28/2018 at 10:00 PM, Space Merchant said:

Educate members also the parents, even outside of religion, parents seem to not do as much, for example, a little girl nearly becoming a victim because her parents didn't monitor a game she was playing, Minecraft of course, whereas the predator was able to convince her to leave her house. Thank Jah the girl was saved -  This actually took place several days ago.

But it wouldn't hurt to educate some people, if some of us can do it, you can also. The JWs will have to get on the ball for it, but, they do have publications regarding child abuse, so such information can be used to help the members, and possibly reduction of any persons becoming victims of abuse, for one of the victims even stated she didn't know she sex abuse was until she read the publications regarding it.

Another factor is, some JWs at their churches tend to be more connected as a family unit than other JW churches, this is just from the African and Hispanic ones I am familiar with, for they are not just a family, but bounded by their culture also, more of a connect prevents abuse from happening, but not every JW church has this luxury nor do every church of any denomination.

agreed, and it should be done with qualified persons. Elders are not qualified, yet. I hope that one day there IS a training curriculum for them to be able to be qualified.

 

On 2/28/2018 at 10:00 PM, Space Merchant said:

In the end, the world can't be clean 100%, nor can everything be perfect for nothing can be prevented and stopped to its entirety, I do respect that comment though, but it is what it is regarding how this world is now. We can just suppress something briefly only for it it to happen again and or elsewhere, for you can stop a danger here, and there, but you can't stop it over here. We carry our troubles, our anxieties, stress, and even death on our backs as if it was a backpack filled with books. But keeps us going is doing the good that we can, even though such good acts is seen as insignificant to others, as well as our family, and most importantly, our faith and love for God, and the actions and examples His Son has left for us to follow.

There is good people who do good, and there is bad people with the intent to do bad, and will tickle the ears of good persons just so they can have their way, pretending to be repentant even, but eventually, it will be too late before the good person realizes it - but the actions of a bad apple or two does not justify the attack of other good people. I say this because I have a good reason, biblical ones, as to why I stay in my own lane.

Thank you for your thoughts and giving me, and the rest of us, a glimpse of your part of the world and its own view on things. I truly appreciate your contributions to this and other threads. To see an outsiders view, from a place where corruption is partly normal (isn't it everywhere on some scale), is refreshing. I agree with most of what you wrote and my only point in this whole thread is that the wt CAN make a difference. They CAN educate the elders, they CAN inform the police and they CAN make this official policy. They can do this without anything more than dropping their pride and accepting help in making it a reality. Obviously they cannot do it on their own, or they would have. Since they boast about the worldwide brotherhood adhering to the same teachings, they can make the necessary changes to at the least prevent ONE child from abuse. They can do that, they just refuse. 

 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Couldn't agree more with your view here. Sadly it is NOT the view of the wt. They came out after the ARC and stated that they will NOT be changing the two witness rule no matter who says what. Pedo's don't normally invite a viewing party. This is the loophole that, maybe wasn't designed for this, is the perfect avenue for repeat abuse. The octo-popes of wt know this, but refuse to change for some reason. 

I suggest you read what the ARC again says about the two-witness rule in the final reports and seeing what is said for it was stated the rule is in harmony with the model bill of evidence (Tendency and Coincidence), it isn't really a loophole for the mental broken souls who pray on children. For such a rule is their Scriptural view and applications, as the reports says and there was not really much of an issue for such a rule especially when the ARC broke it down to what it applies to.

They won't change that rule because JWs are known for sticking to scripture, and solely scripture, in some cases when it comes to application. That is why they can't change it, for there is always a WHY to something as to what someone or something does, with reason and information pointing to that WHY someone or something do this or that.

I rather take into account truth than what others say, and I take the word of ARC over the claims of someone who is painting what is false.

But, I agree with the ARC, I do not believe you do with the way you responded, not taking into account of what the ARC had said about the rule the JWs have.

6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

oh I am not ignoring this point, but rather magnifying it. You are correct that an abuser uses clever ways of carrying out the abuse, but why make it eaiser? Why give them a loophole? 

You may still being ignoring it, friend. No one gives an abuser to do something or take action upon someone, they do this on their own, for there isn't anyone holding their hand to carry out abuse and or crimes, the same can be said with people do other actions such as murder, genocide, etc, their intent, in their minds, it planned out and final. People who are not aware of such abuser will easily be swayed by them, for these people will not know of something until told, when one discovers something or witnesses something, etc. You can never know the intentions of someone truly until something is found out.

An example would be innocent little girls who you may see as sweet and honest little kids, but what you do not know is these girls planned out and lured someone, another child, in a near attempt to murder this victim, you can't honestly say you can automatically snuff out the intention of these girls just by talking to them or seeing them. Putting this into context with what I said before, you can't automatically snuff out the intentions of and or actions of a pedophile until accusations and or prove of it is brought up, prompting you or someone to take action when such information arises.

The example I gave was indeed a real one, attempted murder, stabbing of a victim (18-19 times) that landed two 12 year old girls jail time, one of them sentenced to 25-40 years to a Hospital institution for being mentally ill.

The reality is, there isn't loopholes, for such bad people are not really caught unless people speak up, evidence is discovered, the abuser's history and or past being made known, background checking, etc.

To detect someone's bad intentions to do something vile, you must probably think you are Superman/Kal-El if you can do such. Unfortunately, we do not possess unique traits and or ability, and the only person to have such an ability, to see the hearts of man, is Yahweh, God the Father.

People with bad intent will always do bad and will take action by means of tricking good people to achieve ill goals, other times they evade, and will cry to good people to win them over.

6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

agreed, and it should be done with qualified persons. Elders are not qualified, yet. I hope that one day there IS a training curriculum for them to be able to be qualified.

True and not true. For what can be done is people who are qualified can teach and educate, other times, such information can be read via books and online. Examples would be spotting the signs of abuse, some people learn such things via literature, books, internet because they do not have access to qualified persons an the like. Sometimes people who learn from experience, or in this case, The Watchtower taking into account for what the ARC has told them, hence why the reports stated what the Watchtower has learned from the ARC. But at times, some people will act upon such whether they are trained or not, for they tend to go with the flow and hope things come out with positive end results.

6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Thank you for your thoughts and giving me, and the rest of us, a glimpse of your part of the world and its own view on things. I truly appreciate your contributions to this and other threads. To see an outsiders view, from a place where corruption is partly normal (isn't it everywhere on some scale), is refreshing. I agree with most of what you wrote and my only point in this whole thread is that the wt CAN make a difference. They CAN educate the elders, they CAN inform the police and they CAN make this official policy. They can do this without anything more than dropping their pride and accepting help in making it a reality. Obviously they cannot do it on their own, or they would have. Since they boast about the worldwide brotherhood adhering to the same teachings, they can make the necessary changes to at the least prevent ONE child from abuse. They can do that, they just refuse. 

It was more directed to you, honestly, for this isn't the first time I speak of such, and this part of the world is pretty much the United States of America. I do a lot of traveling and lived in some areas, so I know from experience, going out to help people also. Corruption isn't normal either, for our government has placed a lot of people out of the middle class into poverty, and when an impoverished people have no mean of getting some opportunity and or chance, they have to succumb to conditions and do what they see fit to survive, be it robbing, stealing, etc. Homes being foreclosed and people sent to live in the streets while the people with money continue to stress the middle class and worry about building and or adding something that will not benefit the people. The world isn't a place of rainbow fountains, ice cream and unicorns as some make it out to be, you have to open your eyes and see that the world, especially the United States isn't perfect, for they will kill their own to make sure truth does not come into the light (Serena Shim, the Las Vegas survivors being killed off by the US gov't, etc).

And yes, the Watchtower can make a difference and they learned from the ARC and watching such information it isn't about Pride, especially if you know how they are and why do as such. Of course they can inform the police, but when it comes to religious institutions you have to recognize the difference, as I said it before about religious law and how they handle things, then comes the laws of the land, for Religious institutions are free to conduct their own internal investigation within their own community, but should something great and her major arises it is a different story for all denominations; they are said to have advise their members to take a course of action - and to say they are doing nothing is a bit absurd for we do not know what is their take on the matter as we speak or how they feel about such, the same goes for all institutions, for something like to handle the situations on their own and make up new policies to go in harmony with whatever rules they have.

And no, they didn't refuse, the to adhere to their teachings, hence why, they do not change anything scriptural, for if they did, they would end up like cherry picking Christians of the mainstream. In their eyes, it is like taking a Nazareth Vow and going back on it a year later, and such a thing are to be taken very very seriously, especially when it came to scripture.

JWs will continue to do their best and take in of what they've learned from ARC, however, Child Abuse will most likely just go down, it cannot be prevent 100%. Remember this carefully, this isn't a perfect world, as I said before, you can prevent a danger here, but you can't stop it over there.

But it seems even the people on the outside can understand what, who, the JWs are and how they operate on things, especially when it comes to laws. For such persons tend to not be a fan of them and or is neutral with them. As one of them had said, There are better ways to handle matters and it is not outright attacking a religion. A comment made by an Ex-Bible Student.

In the end, we can try, we can prevent, we can educate by means of experience or learn on our own of such things, but we cannot 100% stop violence, we cannot 100% stop murder or suicide, we cannot 100% stop war, and we cannot 100% stop child abuse.

All people, JWs included, will do their best, but they cannot stop such abuse to its entirety.

 

What you can do, if you want to, is speak on the matter with Christians, teach them even should such a conversation arise, get on their level and mindset, but do so in a way you are not attacking them because it will not just be bad for them, but for you also.

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

5 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

You ought to know, look at where the stick is lodge!!

Is this some kind of "Rap" code phrase?

What does that even MEAN?

[Noble Berean]

@Shiwiii it disrupts the idea that the organization is a "spiritual paradise" or an oasis of purity in an evil world. Adherents can't realize that the organization has filth in it just like many other organized religions, because it would destroy the notion that the WT is superior as the "true religion". In fact, today the CO at my kingdom hall referenced child molestation as a way to verify that a religion DOES NOT have God's backing!

JWs 100% deserve transparency on this matter, but they've gotten the opposite. The way this has been handled proves that men are calling the shots here and not God. Only an imperfect human would think they could "contain the stink." Maybe they can prevent JWs from seeing the ugly truth, but they cannot conceal it from Jehovah God.

[Shiwiii]

17 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

In fact, today the CO at my kingdom hall referenced child molestation as a way to verify that a religion DOES NOT have God's backing!

WHAT?!?!?!?! I don't thin k he really knew what he said right there. 

 

17 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

The way this has been handled proves that men are calling the shots here and not God. Only an imperfect human would think they could "contain the stink." Maybe they can prevent JWs from seeing the ugly truth, but they cannot conceal it from Jehovah God.

yep. And that is why my personal belief is that like you said, there are plenty of organizations that have this and other corruptions, so my relationship with God is mine and mine alone. I align with a group of folks, but in the end I answer to God, not the group.  There is an extent to organized religion where I will participate. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

AllenSmith:

Just a follow up on your earlier supposition that when the ARC subpoenaed Australian Citizen Geoffrey Jackson, it was just a polite request ....

On 3/2/2018 at 3:54 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Summons are a polite way of asking for something?

HahaHAHAhahaha

Next time you get a summons from the local court system, or the IRS ... just ignore it.

...You are in for a REVELATION !

 

This screenshot is from Today's News, showing what normal people expect, when they refuse subpoenas. (Monday, March 5, 2018)

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

AllenSmith:

It's fun to rattle your chain ... but please answer the following question ....

1.) If YOU were issued a summons, and it was served on YOU, to appear in court, and YOU refused to appear ... what do you think would happen?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

JTR

If it came from another country that doesn’t have legal jurisdiction over another sovereign nation and its people? Nothing,

Aha!

...but Geoffrey Jackson was an Australian Citizen .... visiting in Australia, and he was served the summons IN AUSTRALIA.

He was legally compelled under pain of contempt to appear ... AND TRIED NOT TO.

HE WAS NOT A WILLING PARTICIPANT.

.... and I noticed that you answer was "Nothing" ... which does not apply in this case,.

Let me rephrase my question and see if you can wiggle out of giving a REAL answer .....

2.)  If you were in the exact same circumstances in EVERY WAY that Geoffrey Jackson was ... would you have disobeyed the summons ?

3.) and to repeat my FIRST question with the criteria of question No. 2,:  " 1.) If YOU were issued a summons, and it was served on YOU, to appear in court, and YOU refused to appear ... what do you think would happen?"

What DO you think would happen?