RECLAIMED VOICES new letter to JW brothers and sisters.

[JOHN BUTLER]

4 minutes ago, Anna said:

I believe the victims, and yes, this did happen years ago.

 

This sounds like the Candace Conti case,, that happened in the 80's

This also happened in the 80's

You live and learn. I can assure you this no longer happens. What has been happening in recent years is exactly as is written in the document, with the addition that now the child molester is made known to parents.

Why don't you test out the safe guarding policy yourself, instead of claiming that it is not being followed? Why don't you tell the elders of the accusation you have learned of? 

5. When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they immediately consult with the branch
office of Jehovah’s Witnesses to ensure compliance with child abuse reporting laws. (Romans 13:1)
Even if the elders have no legal duty to report an accusation to the authorities, the branch office of Jehovah’s
Witnesses will instruct the elders to report the matter if a minor is still in danger of abuse or
there is some other valid reason. Elders also ensure that the victim’s parents are informed of an accusation
of child abuse. If the alleged abuser is one of the victim’s parents, the elders will inform the
other parent

 

You really don't want to listen do you.

The Elders know about the situation. The Elders have the names of both parties concerned. I don't have the name of the victim.

Now if what you say is true, the Elders would have already informed the Police right ?  No, i don't think so. 

And i cannot talk to the accused or the Elders as I have left the org and not one of the 120 / 130 people will talk to me. 

Now i haven't told people not to talk to me, so it's their fault if I cannot warn them. I left the Org so that i could warn people, but those congregants have chosen of their own free will (because of fear of punishment) not to talk to me. So i no longer feel responsible. 

Nearly 12 pm here in England, so good night to you. 

 

[Shiwiii]

Anna,

So you are not going to give your answer, and instead regurgitate what the wt says.  

 

Did you notice that nothing is said of taking this "serious sin" to the police, when in fact it is a serious crime? 

[JJJ-AUSTRALIA]

Should watch the Australian royal commission on child sex abuse within JWs victims which is available online and you will see first hand how our procedures and everything is handle within the organization, you will be shocked. 

It has been some years since then and we have heard nothing from it and no 1 policy changed even though many several recommendations were given by the Australian commission to be changed.

[Anna]

5 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

So you are not going to give your answer, and instead regurgitate what the wt says.  

Your question was about WT policy wasn't it??  So I quoted the policy.

5 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Did you notice that nothing is said of taking this "serious sin" to the police, when in fact it is a serious crime? 

It is both. Spiritually it is a sin, legally it is a crime. Since the elders are concerned with spiritual things in the congregation and not law making, they focus on the sinful aspect. This does not negate nor replace the criminal aspect.

I don't need anyone to point out the difference to me. Do you? I mean would you go to the police and say "so and so has committed a sin". You would get funny looks wouldn't you?

[Anna]

3 hours ago, Jay Iza said:

Should watch the Australian royal commission on child sex abuse within JWs victims which is available online and you will see first hand how our procedures and everything is handle within the organization, you will be shocked. 

It has been some years since then and we have heard nothing from it and no 1 policy changed even though many several recommendations were given by the Australian commission to be changed.

I listened to the ARC when it was broadcast live. I have the transcripts too. There have been policy changes, you must have missed that bit.

[Anna]

3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 

And i cannot talk to the Elders as I have left the org and not one of the 120 / 130 people will talk to me. 

Now i haven't told people not to talk to me, so it's their fault if I cannot warn them. I left the Org so that i could warn people, but those congregants have chosen of their own free will (because of fear of punishment) not to talk to me. 

 

Excuses. You haven't even tried.

3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So i no longer feel responsible. 

Bit of a bummer for the children if the accused molests again. I don't get you John, I really don't....

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Anna  Quote : Bit of a bummer for the children if the accused molests again. I don't get you John, I really don't....

All well and good but you are still part of that Organisation that still continues to hide Pedophiles in it's ranks.

I don't get you Anna, I really don't ..............

 

As as for me not even trying. I've emailed people and they do not reply.

 

Even my own biological brother, who is an Elder in our home town, has stopped contact with me. Yet he agreed with my stand at first. 

 

But of course you want me to put myself on the line, to be accused of slander, by Elders of an organisation that i know to be dishonest anyway. I think the Elders would just love to have that to pin on me. Then they could tell the congregation that i am an apostate, and give everyone, what they would consider, a genuine reason, for not talking to me. 

 

I have actually been looking for the piece of paper that I wrote all the details on, but i can't find it. I was talking to a teacher a week ago and she told me that new laws had been brought in here in the UK, regarding reporting abuse. However when I looked into the 'new laws' I think it is for people in jobs working with children, teachers, social workers, etc, so not for the general public. 

 

But I can see how you would rather focus on blaming me, rather than be concerned that this Child Abuse is Earthwide in the Organisation which you are part of. 

 

If you were really concerned you would think it more than 'a bit of a bummer' for all the victims Earthwide, those in the past and those now. 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

14 hours ago, Anna said:

10. Child abuse is a serious sin. If an alleged abuser is a member of the congregation, the elders
conduct a Scriptural investigation. This is a purely religious proceeding handled by elders according
to Scriptural instructions and is limited to the issue of membership as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. A
member of the congregation who is an unrepentant child abuser is expelled from the congregation and
is no longer considered one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (1 Corinthians 5:13) The elders’ handling of an
accusation of child abuse is not a replacement for the authorities’ handling of the matter.—Romans

If it is so as this declaration No 10 say, than WHY elders must contact Legal Department first on how this purely religious proceeding must continue. ?? How it is possible that mature elders can not decide (independently, according to their so called "Bible-educated" conscience or better - according to their Natural God given Conscience) how first thing, in benefit for the victim, is that POLICE have to secure PHYSICAL SAFETY FOR VICTIM, and then after this first step or parallel to this very first move that  must been done, is SPIRITUAL SAFETY for victim that this so called "mature men" have to provide. 

According to your brother Asch in his deposition, he made this CLEAR DISTINCTION about PHYSICAL SAFETY and SPIRITUAL SAFETY and how WT GB and their Lawyers defending themselves and their money and their Organizational Honor.

Your respond on John's post is how things he mentioned is from past, in 1980 es. ARC is from 2015 and WT elders in Australia are very bad role model as those elders from 1980 period. No progress was made in benefit for victims. All because of money and WTJWorg Corporation Public Picture.

Face the TRUTH and Reality please!

[Anna]

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

still continues to hide Pedophiles in it's ranks.

Ye all harken! John Butler from a little town in the UK knows!

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But of course you want me to put myself on the line, to be accused of slander, by Elders

This has nothing to do with slander. You say the elders already know the whole case. You going to the elders would be to ask them if they have gone to the police, and if not, to tell them that as someone who has learned of an allegation, you are obliged by law to go. You are just giving them heads up.  This conversation doesn't have to be awkward or nasty, just polite and to the point. You don't have to tell them who told you or how you know. You need to call them, and set up an appointment to see them, or for them to come to your house. All you need to say is that you have something of a very serious matter to talk to them about. Why don't you give them a chance John, instead of accusing them of things you really have no proof of? 

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Then they could tell the congregation that i am an apostate, and give everyone, what they would consider, a genuine reason, for not talking to me. 

Seriously? Of course if you started going into an emotional rant about how the org purposefully hides pedos in the congregations and that all JW teachings are false,  then maybe. But you will be talking to them very briefly, letting them know, because it's only fair, that you will be going to the Police with the information you have been given because it is your duty as a citizen of the country. That's all.  

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If you were really concerned you would think it more than 'a bit of a bummer' for all the victims Earthwide, those in the past and those now. 

I was clearly being sarcastic John. I think it's a real shame you are so reluctant to do your part in protecting children, considering you seem to be so concerned about it. I am beginning to wonder......

You can be certain that if I had got the information you did, I would have gone to the police and elders the next day! So who is more concerned?

[Shiwiii]

13 hours ago, Anna said:

Since the elders are concerned with spiritual things in the congregation and not law making, they focus on the sinful aspect. This does not negate nor replace the criminal aspect.

It most certainly does negate and or replace the criminal aspect if they do not take it to the police. They are then an accomplice to covering up abuse. Why do you think there are so many lawsuits going on right now?  

 

13 hours ago, Anna said:

I don't need anyone to point out the difference to me. Do you? I mean would you go to the police and say "so and so has committed a sin". You would get funny looks wouldn't you?

Are you just playing dumb or are you serious? I think you are trying to make this seem silly and petty, when in fact it is far from it. Children are being raped and molested, and this org and its supporters of "WT policy" are covering it up and refusing to protect the victims and or future victims.

 

Was it considered lies by the devil or Satan's media/fake news when this was/is going on within the Catholic church and jws talked about it then? 

 

[Shiwiii]

19 minutes ago, Anna said:

You can be certain that if I had got the information you did, I would have gone to the police and elders the next day! So who is more concerned?

bah, I do not believe you. 

I believe you would talk to elders and then keep quiet so that you don't make Jehovah sad. 

That's policy, right? 

[Srecko Sostar]

55 minutes ago, Anna said:

You can be certain that if I had got the information you did, I would have gone to the police and elders the next day! So who is more concerned?

If i can recall this post of John about this information (correct me if it is wrong) John has heard that from other person. So now, we here are in some similar, strange position, because we heard, about crime that has happened, from John. 

I think how some scientific discipline, like sociology and psychology, could explain what happens inside people in such situations we talking about. Why do we react or not react? How do we react? Why we do not want to interfere in someone else's problems? Why it easier to be passive and to go on other side? .... etc.