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Dutch Parliament accepted motion related to care for religious apostates


Jack Ryan
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The Dutch Parliament has accepted a motion in which is called on the Dutch government to ensure proper care and guidance for apostates.

I wonder how the Dutch governement is going to act on this motion.

MOTION BY THE MEMBER OF KOOTEN-ARISSEN

Proposed 26 September 2019

The Chamber,

having heard the deliberations,
noting that people from orthodox religious communities may encounter a great deal of resistance from their environment if they choose to abandon certain precepts or their faith;
whereas feelings of loneliness, exclusion and sadness for what is lost can cause a grieving process that people need help with;
whereas feelings of loneliness, exclusion and sorrow for what has been lost can cause a process of mourning, which people need help with;
calls on the government to ensure proper care and guidance of apostates, and moves on to the order of the day.

Van Kooten-Arissen

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The Dutch Parliament has accepted a motion in which is called on the Dutch government to ensure proper care and guidance for apostates. I wonder how the Dutch governement is going to act on this motion. MOTION BY THE MEMBER OF KOOTEN-ARISSEN Proposed 26 September 2019 The Chamber, having heard the deliberations, noting that people from orthodox religious communities may encounter a great deal of resistance from their environment if they choose to abandon certain precep

No- I meant "old" in sense of ruling for a long time like despots and do not get voted out. They are all younger than I am - and I do not consider myself old.... 

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Ludicrous politics at best.  Watch some EU proceedings in its parliament with the old Belgian and Dutch leaders and you will see what I mean.  

If I were a politician I would suggest they get their comfort in the red light district of Nederland. Lol.

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1 minute ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Old leaders 

Sounds like a presumptuous youth speaking....

Reminds me of the African elders in the African tribes..... they have acquired a mildness and wisdom with age - not so judgmental.

When young Africans overthrow the elders and run the elder courts themselves  - gross injustices occur.  Elders do make mistakes too..... but the presumptiousness of youth have far worse results.

A lesson can be learnt from this.... of course these traditions are fast disappearing.

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      “In the same way these people—relying on their dreams—defile their flesh, reject authority, and slander glorious ones.”  Jude 1:8
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      Jesus said, "I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do nothing without me. 6 "If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown aside like a branch and he withers. They gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you want and it will be done for you.”  John 15:5-7
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      A false teacher would shun his brothers in Christ out of jealousy and fear of losing his authority and power over them. (Gen 4:9; Matt 24:48-51; 1 John 3:7,10-12; Rev 11:3,7; 13:15)   He would demean their role as an active priest today, promoting lying doctrine about the priesthood, and by shedding doubt on their personal anointing.  (Isa 51:23;Rev 9:3,4)     
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      That statement is based on Col 2:8, which wasn’t mentioned. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
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      False teachings are introduced as the man said, by offering ‘a few grains of truth mixed in with falsehoods, and inspired by the demons’. (1 Tim 4:1,2; Rev 16:13-16) He compared this concoction to a poisoned drink.  If we were to accept this cup offered by false teachers, deterioration and active decay to our spiritual heart and mind begins. (Prov 4:23; Ps 28:3; Prov 19:9; 2 Tim 3:13)  And the teacher who offers the poisoned cup of falsehoods to his listeners, is the sign of rot occurring from within themselves. (Deut 32:33; Prov 23:26-35; Job 20:16)
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      In the Watchtower, what begins as a scriptural truth, becomes a full-fledged lie, sourced in Satan’s “sea”, that consumes the individual who submits his mind and heart to it. Each beginning of a lie is part of many, that the Watchtower has ‘morphed’ over the years. These teachings have become unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Rev 13:1,2 (Prov 14:25) 
       
      Again, from the WT 11/7/15:
      “AND JUST AS A CLEVER FORGER TRIES TO PASS PHONY DOCUMENTS, SO APOSTATES USE ‘COUNTERFEIT WORDS’, OR FALSE ARGUMENTS, TRYING TO PASS THEIR FABRICATED VIEWS AS IF THEY WERE TRUE.” 
      Here's an example of a fabricated view:
      Wt. 14/1/15 - “How did Jehovah become King in 1914, and what were some of the Kingdom’s early accomplishments? The subsequent famines, earthquakes, and pestilences as well as the fulfillment of other Bible prophecies proved CONCLUSIVELY that Jesus Christ had begun to rule in heaven as King of God’s Kingdom in 1914. By enthroning his Son as the Messianic King, Jehovah had, indeed, become King in a new sense!” 
      The SYMBOLIC famines, earthquakes, pestilences are the labor pains that PRECEDE the birth of God’s Kingdom. This is the natural order of birth. Luke 21:8,9; Mark 13:8; Ezek 22:28  
       “Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your ]composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a MESSAGE OR A LETTER AS IF FROM US, TO THE EFFECT THAT THE DAY OF THE LORD HAS COME. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.” 2 Thess 2:1-4
      Watchtower continues: 
      “THEY SPREAD 'DECEPTIVE TEACHINGS,' 'TWISTING'...THE SCRIPTURES TO FIT THEIR OWN IDEAS. (2 Pet. 2:1, 3, 13; 3:16)” 
      Twisting the scriptures, and creating new doctrine such as:
      Wt 02/8/1 - “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions. Hebrews 13:7,17" 
      JWs, go back to the scriptures to find the truth:
      Num 18:7 - “But you and your sons will carry out your priestly responsibilities for everything concerning the altar and for what is inside the veil, and you will do that work. I am giving you the work of the priesthood as a gift, BUT AN UNAUTHORIZED PERSON WHO COMES NEAR THE SANCTUARY WILL BE PUT TO DEATH."
       Who are the Temple sanctuary?  1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 2Chron.13:9; Ezek 22:26;Eze.44:6,7,8,9; 2Thess.2:4; Dan.11:31; Matt.24:15; Rev 11:1,2
      “CLEARLY, APOSTATES DO NOT HAVE OUR BEST INTERESTS AT HEART. FOLLOWING THEM WOULD DIVERT US FROM THE ROAD THAT LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE”. 
      Shepherd the Flock book, page 65 (the previous version) – 
      “Apostasy is a standing away from true worship, a falling away, defection, rebellion.”
      It includes: 
      “Deliberately spreading teachings contrary to bible truth…
      AS TAUGHT BY JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES”
       
       
      Pearl Doxsey, 4womaninthewilderness blogspot
      “The Kingdom—1914?”
      “The Sign of the End”
       
       
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      Don't know if this is exactly a new letter but it's interesting.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Worth a read i think 
    • By Jack Ryan
      Victims of sexual abuse within Jehovah's Witnesses are still being thwarted by the denomination. That says lawyer Nico Meijering.
      He calls the abuse within the church "many times more dangerous for society and riskier than the average motorcycle club." The Reclaimed Voices Foundation is on Saturday afternoon at the door of the Jehova's Witnesses headquarters in Emmen. In 'a quiet and peaceful protest' against sexual abuse.
      Meijering, lawyer at Ficq & Partners Advocaten in Amsterdam, represents twelve victims of sexual abuse at Jehovah's Witnesses. Several victims want to inspect files that the denomination has about them.
      Child abuse within the Jehovah's is handled internally - if spoken about. Records of interrogations, with details and sometimes confessions, are retained.
      It's outrageous'
      Meijering appealed to the denomination several times - the Dutch head office is in Emmen - but comes to the conclusion that Jehovah's Witnesses do nothing but 'train and ignore'. That what has been submitted to information so far can not be called files.
      "It is outrageous," says Meijering. ,, We are sent with a clump in the reeds. This shows that Jehova's Witnesses do not want to cooperate at all. We are considering what we can do. They train and ignore. These are extremely precarious matters. "
      More than three hundred abuse cases
      Meijering also supports and advises the Reclaimed Voices foundation, co-founded in 2017 by Frank Huiting from Groningen, a victim of sexual abuse within the Jehovas.His foundation calls on victims to tell their story and says to have knowledge of more than three hundred abuse cases.
      At the Public Prosecutor's Office in the Northern Netherlands, two individual criminal cases are involved, the Public Prosecutor reports. She expects to be able to provide more clarity about this in the 'not too long term'.
      In the rest of the country there are at least seven other studies, in different regions. The OM emphasized at the start of these investigations, in August, that there is no criminal investigation into the faith community as a whole.
      Lawyer Meijering is surprised about this. "It is clear from all sides that it is a community that is particularly unsafe for young children," says Meijering.
      "That's why I do not understand why the OM only acts on the basis of individual declarations. We see that motor clubs are being tackled - I find the sexual abuse within this religious community many times more dangerous for society and riskier than the average motorcycle club. ''
      Investigation in connection with the motion in the House of Representatives
      Following ar motion in Parliament, the Research and Documentation Center of the Ministry of Justice and Security will start such a broader investigation. That report is expected in mid-2019, says a spokesperson.
      In the United States, a jury declared itself at the end of September in a criminal case against the Jehovah's Witnesses. The abuse of a 21-year-old woman by a member of the church order had been concealed for many years by order of the national church council.
      The society must pay the woman $ 35 million.
      A judge must still assess the punishment and the American Jehova's will appeal. But the jury's verdict was a signal to the church.
      Send a signal
      The Dutch foundation Reclaimed Voices, co-founded by Frank Huiting from Groningen, today hopes to send out a signal in a different way. Through 'a quiet and peaceful protest'. With a podium for victims to speak out.
      Just in front of the door of the headquarters of the Dutch Jehovas, in Emmen.
      'Reclaimed votes' is the literal translation of the name of the foundation.
      ,, What is still necessary to prevent and deal with sexual abuse? That's what it's about '', says Huiting, himself a victim of abuse. ,, It's about child safety. And not only in Jehovah's Witnesses, but in all closed communities. We are not looking for financial satisfaction. We want to give victims a voice and want the Jehovah's to open themselves up to external advice. "
      The fact that the Jehovah's are closed is apparent, among other things, from the refusal to provide information about abuse cases that have been dealt with internally.Reporting is almost never done.
      ---
      What do Jehovahs Witnesses say about this?
      The Jehovah's do not recognize themselves in the image that lawyer Nico Meijering paints of 'scandalous' opposition from victims of sexual abuse within the religious community. "In accordance with the General Data Protection Regulation, we provide access to the personal data that we have from the applicant upon request. Comment [from advocate Meijering] as you put it, therefore we are surprised, "reports spokesperson Michel van Hilten in a reply by e-mail.
      Three months ago he told this newspaper that the Jehovah's believe that there is no structural problem [of sexual abuse]. "We know a handful of incidents and reports of abuse per year," Van Hilten said.
      The Jehovah's are invited to be present at the protest, but 'prefer to have direct contact with individual victims who seek contact with us'.
      "Details of a recommended investigation by the House of Representatives have not been known to date. However, we have already informed the Ministry in advance that we are prepared to explain a few things. ''
       
      source in Dutch:
       
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      Jehovah's Witnesses will do everything to avoid having to comply with a declaration obligation for cases of sexual abuse. That experts conclude on the basis of new internal documents from the church, which are in the hands of RTL Nieuws.
      These are letters from the head office in America to departments in other countries. These letters discuss what needs to be done if a declaration is required in that country. The central management points out to the departments in the letters that they have to do everything they can to get out of such a duty to report.
      Jehovah's Witnesses are under attack because they do not report internal cases of sexual abuse to the police. The perpetrators are tried in an internal legal system, but receive no prison sentence or fine. The heaviest punishment is exclusion from the church.
      Church organization refuses to cooperate
      Reports are made of the internal legal cases containing details about the abuse and sometimes even confessions of perpetrators. MPs and victims of abuse have called upon Jehovah's Witnesses since the beginning of this year to share these documents with the police and judiciary. Until now, the church organization has refused that.
      The letters that RTL Nieuws has, show that a possible declaration obligation for sexual abuse in the Netherlands may have little effect on Jehovah's Witnesses, says Raymond Hintjes. He is chairman of the victim organization Reclaimed Voices. "Even if a declaration obligation is introduced, we see that the Jehovah's Witnesses will still try to get out of it through a deliberate action."
      Arrogant contempt for the rule of law
      Professor of criminal law Henny Sackers of the University of Nijmegen thinks the position of the church is shocking. "It seems almost a kind of arrogant contempt for the Dutch legal system, now that they want to do everything to prevent government interference, criminal government interference."
      Jehovah's Witnesses invoke the privilege of refusal when refusing legal aid. Clergymen do not have to testify under that right about what a believer has told them in confidence. Earlier, Minister Dekker (Legal Protection) wrote to the House of Representatives that it is not clear whether Jehovah's Witnesses may use the right of non-disclosure in this way. Dekker is now investigating whether it makes sense to set a declaration obligation.
      The documents that RTL Nieuws possesses can not be published because they may be able to identify the source.
      Originally posted in Dutch on RTL Nieuws
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      Here is the quote from Jehovah's Witnesses calling former members "mentally diseased"


      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  
      Where in the scripture does it say that apostates are mentally diseased? I guess that's just their translation.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      The invasion of the mentally ill professional apostates is repeated again, at a Kingdom Hall in full meeting. Once the prayer is over, an invader gets on the stage and the ushers are forced to lower it. But among the attendees there are more apostates, including the one who is recording the video. They almost have to be forcibly evicted because they are reluctant to leave  while criticizing the organization. They gather at the door while the brothers prevent them from entering again and call the police. The arrival of the police causes some to run away, and the agent takes data from those who bother a private meeting. Let's take note of the scene that will surely be repeated in many  countries.
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      Religious sect Jehovah’s Witnesses has refused to hand over documents to the public prosecutor in which an ex-member admits the abuse of a child, also member of the sect at the time, RTL Nieuws reports. Samet G, now 31, was a minor himself when the abuse of his 4 year-old niece started. The abuse continued until she was 14 and was reported to the police in 2015 when the girl and her mother left the Christian sect. A court in Breda last week sentenced G to a 9 months suspended sentence and a fine for the abuse but did not have access to the confession, which dates from 2011. G is appealing against his conviction.
      JehovahÂ’s Witnesses have their own internal committees which sit in judgement in cases of sexual abuse and do not involve the police. A record of these proceedings is made and kept. According to RTL, the public prosecutorÂ’s request for a copy of the confession was refused on the grounds that it would compromise the manÂ’s privacy and that, by law, clergymen, or in this case the elders, cannot be forced to reveal what has been told to them in confidence. Although there is doubt among lawyers that the JehovahÂ’s Witnesses elders can claim this right, the public prosecutor accepted the refusal, RTL writes.
      The sect also refuses to cooperate in an independent inquiry and, according to minister for legal protection Sander Dekker, it cannot be forced to do so. Abuse survivors According to Reclaimed Voices, an organisation that helps ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses members who were victims of sexual abuse, the minister needs to do much more. ‘If we can’t get the files via the courts we need politicians to act. Someone must force the Jehovah’s Witnesses to hand them over,’ the organisation’s spokesman Frank Huiting told RTL. CDA MP Madeleine van Toorenburg and other MPs have asked the minister to investigate if Jehovah’s Witness have the right to refuse access to documents that might shed light on a criminal case and slated the sect’s ‘culture of silence and cover-ups,’ RTL writes. Jehovah’s Witnesses are being widely accused of silencing victims of sexual abuse within the sect. The Guardian newspaper recently uncovered a case involving at least 100 victims who claim to have been abused.

      Read more at
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    • By Jack Ryan
      I see more and more stories about this woman Barbara Anderson
      What exactly did she do at Bethel? Does she have an interesting story?
    • By Jack Ryan
      bh chap. 11 pp. 110-112 pars. 12-15 - Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever....student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. What should the teacher do?....suppose that the teacher allows the rebel to show the class how he would solve the problem...he knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, all honest students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class....consider two things that the teacher in our illustration would not do............he would not stop the rebel student from presenting his case.




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