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Should we close our ears to rebels? or opposers?


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bh chap. 11 pp. 110-112 pars. 12-15 - Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever....student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. What should the teacher do?....suppose that the teacher allows the rebel to show the class how he would solve the problem...he knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, all honest students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class....consider two things that the teacher in our illustration would not do............he would not stop the rebel student from presenting his case.

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We've all been there and done that. Most Witnesses have come from a false religious background. I came from a Roman Catholic background and had aspirations of becoming a nun. I associated with nuns after school, cleaned the classrooms and sang in the choir, so my background was fully vested in the teachings of the Trinity, immortal soul, hellfire, purgatory, limbo, Jesus was Catholic, the infallibility of the Pope - he was god on earth. But a life changing experience happened one day, a man

You must be a disfellowshipped person, HUH ? You should be supremely happy - you are now on the outside looking in so  stop pressing your nose against our windows. Did you want followers? All those who choose to follow a Judas goat will be led to the slaughter. Sheep, on the other hand, hear the voice of the Fine Shepherd calling their name. John 10:3 "The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has b

Dear sami, Some scriptures have links.  For those that don’t, I do hope you look into the Bible and read. What is your definition of “false doctrine”?  Being labeled an apostate by the Watchtower is the rejection of their own teachings unique to the organization.  If I believe in the Father and Christ, and are guided by God’s Word, I am not an apostate according to God’s Word. We’ll start by seeing what the Watchtower says about its prophetic abilities: "Of course, it is easy

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

kilometer.jpg

Possibly fake, but even if it is, it recreates real experiences children have had with teachers.

 

We've all been there and done that. Most Witnesses have come from a false religious background. I came from a Roman Catholic background and had aspirations of becoming a nun. I associated with nuns after school, cleaned the classrooms and sang in the choir, so my background was fully vested in the teachings of the Trinity, immortal soul, hellfire, purgatory, limbo, Jesus was Catholic, the infallibility of the Pope - he was god on earth.

But a life changing experience happened one day, a man came to our door and began to show my mother scriptures proving his point on the areas they discussed. My mother, a strong person who also had deep respect for the Bible listened and in that discussion something touched her heart.

The young man had his mother revisit my mother and discussed what had previously been initiated by her son. Within the same time frame a Seventh Day Adventist was visiting my mother voicing her version of scripture and offering a Bible study. My mother, in order to make her decision on which one to choose, asked each one to explain what the Sabbath meant and should it still be enforced as in the Law.

She listened and looked up Scripture and there was no comparison in teaching, she was confident that Jehovah's Witness had the TRUTH of the matter. She began to study the Bible and was baptized in 1952. My mother began to speak about the Bible to her siblings (who were all different religions and scattered around the U.S.) they began to study the Bible and were baptized at different times and places.(4 brothers, 2 sisters and her father and her three children)

So we've been there and indoctrinated in a variety of different religions before a selfless individual came to our door in obedience to Jesus command at Matthew 19:28,29. Yes, that Good News is being preached in 239 Lands and Islands and in over 900 languages - in over two hundred thousand congregations worldwide.

The noise that you hear on the internet cannot drown out the preaching of the Good News and the gathering of the sheep. Jesus said: John 10:3" But the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep. The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice. 5 They will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."

 

Apostates and other opposers are very busy in these days and the scripture tells us why Ezekiel 29:4 " And I will put hooks in your jaws and cause the fish of your Nile canals to cling to your scales. And I will bring you up out of the midst of your Nile canals and all the fish of your Nile canals that cling to your very scales. 5 And I will abandon you to the wilderness, you and all the fish of your Nile canals. Upon the surface of the field you will fall. You will not be gathered up nor be collected together. To the wild beasts of the earth and to the flying creatures of the heavens I will give you for food. 6 And all the inhabitants of Egypt will have to know that I am Jehovah,"

 

Yes Indeed! Jehovah has put the hooks in the jaws of Satan and his demonic cohorts and they cannot turn back and as Ezekiel's prophecy makes clear, it is for one reason - identify and destroy.

 

As the apostle Paul points out at 2Corinthians 4: 3 "If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through."

 

 

 

 

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In a sense Jehovah's Witnesses are like Alex. They did not stay under the authority of the major religions like the Catholic Church, but examined the matter of what the real authority the Bible said, regardless of the consequences,  whereas the majority of persons accept the authority of the Church and its erroneous teachings and refuse to look any further. 

Hosea 4:6 shows that people will be silenced for lack of knowledge.  Second Thessalonions 1: 6-9 shows that people will undergo judicial punishment because of not knowing God and not obeying the good news. The case above shows the good sense of letting the real authority of the Bible speak. God's true sheep know the sound of the  truth/his voice.  Look at the amazing fruit that resulted when one honest-hearted lady  helped her family to know the truth as well. 

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On 6/17/2018 at 10:41 AM, Jack Ryan said:

bh chap. 11 pp. 110-112 pars. 12-15 - Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever....student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. What should the teacher do?....suppose that the teacher allows the rebel to show the class how he would solve the problem...he knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, all honest students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class....consider two things that the teacher in our illustration would not do............he would not stop the rebel student from presenting his case.

 

We are not following worldly advice, we let the Scripture, as an unfailing prophetic book, be the guide.

Galatians 1:6  "I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7 Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed."

 

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HMMMM!!

 

"The one walking with the wise will become wise, But the one who has dealings with the stupid will fare badly." Proverbs 13:20

"Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough?"  1 Corinthians 5:6

 

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Melinda, I implore you to reason on your words.  

On 7/15/2018 at 7:42 AM, Melinda Mills said:

In a sense Jehovah's Witnesses are like Alex. They did not stay under the authority of the major religions like the Catholic Church, but examined the matter of what the real authority the Bible said, regardless of the consequences,  whereas the majority of persons accept the authority of the Church and its erroneous teachings and refuse to look any further. 

 

How is your example of the Catholic Church any different than the Watchtower?  For any who reject teachings such as “this generation”, the Armageddon dates that have come and gone, and Watchtower’s desire to put a manmade organization on a pedestal as the source of salvation, and which they proudly call “earthly Zion”, disfellowshipping ensues.  Any failed teaching gives evidence of lack of knowledge from God.  James 1:16-18  Failed doctrine has no relationship with Christ’s truth nor is it good news, but only stumbling forecasts made by stubborn priests already “defrocked” in the eyes of God.  They have haughtily rejected Christ as their head, usurping his authority by expecting obedience of all Christ’s anointed priests, to be given to them.   Ezek 21:25-27; Matt 23:12; 24:24

Here is your comment from a different perspective:

In a sense exJWs are like Alex. They did not stay under the authority of religions like the Watchtower organization, but examined the matter of what the real authority the Bible said, regardless of the consequences, (regardless of being disfellowshipped)  whereas the majority of persons accept the authority of the Watchtower and its erroneous teachings and refuse to look any further. 

Feb 12, 2012  Calvin Rouse, lawyer for the Watchtower in the Menlo Park kingdom hall lawsuit:

“We are a hierarchal religion structured just like the Catholic Church. And when the order from the Pope comes down in the church defrocking a priest and kicking him out, he no longer has any say in any matter in the local parish priest -- in the parish.”

This set of “consequences” affects anointed ones – the “holy priesthood” of God, as well as many others who have recognized the sound of Christ’s Truth. When choosing Christ’s full authority over men, they can distinguish between the rotten fruit of false/failed doctrine, and fine fruit sourced in Christ. John 15:1-8   Why is it, that the majority of JWs cannot recognize it?  Why is it that God’s anointed priests still inside, turn a blind eye to such falsehood?  Why do they not perceive THEY are the true Zion and that their hearts are the dwelling and Temple of God? 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Eph 2:20-22; Zech 8:3  Simply because they have filled their mind and heart with teachings/”fruit”/”wine” from false leaders, - harlots -  just like the Catholics who listen to the pope. John 7:18; Matt 7:15,16; Jer 2:21; Deut 32:32,33; John 15:5,16; Rev 17:1,2

But in this case, it is gravely serious, because these priests are God’s chosen people.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22

You said, 

“Hosea 4:6 shows that people will be silenced for lack of knowledge.” 

But let no one bring a charge,
    let no one accuse another
,
for your people are like those
    who bring charges
against a priest.

 (a Judicial committee of false “priests”/elders who are not anointed, judging God’s anointed priesthood as “spiritually dead” for accepting Christ as their Head, instead of a “wicked slave. Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; Rev 13:  Matt 24:48-51)


You stumble day and night,
    and the prophets stumble with you.
So I will destroy your mother—
    my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.

“Because you have rejected knowledge,
    I also reject you as my priests;
because you have ignored the law of your God,
    I also will ignore your children.
The more priests there were,
    the more they sinned against me;
    they exchanged their glorious God for something disgraceful.
They feed on the sins of my people
    and relish their wickedness.
And it will be: Like people, like priests.
    I will punish both of them for their ways
    and repay them for their deeds.

10 “They will eat but not have enough;
    they will engage in (spiritual) prostitution but not flourish,
because they have deserted the Lord
    to give themselves 11 to prostitution;
old wine and new wine ( old light, new light)
  take away their understanding.
12 My people consult a wooden idol,
    and a diviner’s rod speaks to them.
A spirit of prostitution leads them astray;
    they are unfaithful to their God.

Do JWs allow a spirit of prostitution to lead them astray?  Yes.  False prophets/Harlots have convinced you to “serve the organization”, transposing this to mean, serving God. Rev 13;1,4,7,8,11,14-17 Nothing on this earth is to be compared to, or served, except God and His Son.  Isa 42:8; 46:5,20; Luke 4:8; Rom 6:16 The apostles didn’t “serve” the needs of an organization, but they wholeheartedly served God and Jesus. Matt 6:24  Where does it say in the scriptures that an organization, other than the ‘organized’ anointed Body of Christ, the Temple of God, must be recognized as the pathway to salvation? Ps 2:6; Ezek 20:40; Rev 14:1   God and Christ both have absolutely no interest in earthly wealth, investments, or buildings that thrive in Satan’s world. Matt 6:19-21; Acts 17:24,25; Phil 3:19; Col 3:2  His only “investments” are those members of Christ’s Body; where His Holy Spirit dwells, as well as the hearts of those seeking pure Truth through His Son.  John 14:23

On 7/15/2018 at 7:42 AM, Melinda Mills said:

The case above shows the good sense of letting the real authority of the Bible speak. God's true sheep know the sound of the  truth/his voice. 

I would hope we are speaking of the authority of God and Christ, and not that of the governing body.  For them to say that God is responsible at any point in time, for Watchtower’s wayward teachings is an absolute lie; yet, they are guilty of doing so.  Did they let the real authority of the Bible speak, or was it from their own desires?  Ezek 13:3  JW have been disfellowshipped for bringing this to the attention of the elders.   

Is it possible for any JW to read scriptures in support of this truth, and take it into their heart?  Or, is the plentiful “fruit” of false teachers more desirable to “eat”?  It is easy to say one relies on the authority of the Bible; JWs are convinced they do, forgetting all the “bible-based” discarded books and teachings that are no longer in use. 

“God’s anger is revealed from heaven against every ungodly and immoral thing people do as they try to suppress the truth by their immoral living. 

They knew God but did not praise and thank him for being God. Instead, their thoughts were pointless, and their misguided minds were plunged into darkness. 22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools.

These people have exchanged God’s truth for a lie. So they have become ungodly and serve what is created rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen!  Rom 1:18,21,25

JWs, you believe you are out of the woods and have left false teachings behind; but you can’t see the forest for the trees.  These particular “trees”/teachers that you seek shelter under, waiting for their spiritual “food” to drop, have an axe waiting at the base of their bitter roots, to chop them down.  Jer 23:15; Matt 3:7-10; Heb 12:14-17;Rev 8:10-11; Rev 19:20

 

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You must be a disfellowshipped person, HUH ? You should be supremely happy - you are now on the outside looking in so  stop pressing your nose against our windows.

Did you want followers? All those who choose to follow a Judas goat will be led to the slaughter.

Sheep, on the other hand, hear the voice of the Fine Shepherd calling their name. John 10:3 "The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice. 5 They will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”

 

So you were preaching false doctrine in the kingdom hall to Jehovah's Witnesses? Not a very smart move. Then you thought it appropriate to exhibit your mad ravings to the elders and were disfellowshipped for being an apostate. I can't imagine why? Of course apostates are not anything new, the apostle Paul was quite eloquent in his description of those in the first century.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

I have a feeling you are not very happy any place you plant yourself, but look at it this way - you weren't happy with us and we were not happy with you.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Witness said:

Melinda, I implore you to reason on your words.  

How is your example of the Catholic Church any different than the Watchtower?  For any who reject teachings such as “this generation”, the Armageddon dates that have come and gone, and Watchtower’s desire to put a manmade organization on a pedestal as the source of salvation, and which they proudly call “earthly Zion”, disfellowshipping ensues.  Any failed teaching gives evidence of lack of knowledge from God.  James 1:16-18  Failed doctrine has no relationship with Christ’s truth nor is it good news, but only stumbling forecasts made by stubborn priests already “defrocked” in the eyes of God.  They have haughtily rejected Christ as their head, usurping his authority by expecting obedience of all Christ’s anointed priests, to be given to them.   Ezek 21:25-27; Matt 23:12; 24:24

Here is your comment from a different perspective:

In a sense exJWs are like Alex. They did not stay under the authority of religions like the Watchtower organization, but examined the matter of what the real authority the Bible said, regardless of the consequences, (regardless of being disfellowshipped)  whereas the majority of persons accept the authority of the Watchtower and its erroneous teachings and refuse to look any further. 

Feb 12, 2012  Calvin Rouse, lawyer for the Watchtower in the Menlo Park kingdom hall lawsuit:

“We are a hierarchal religion structured just like the Catholic Church. And when the order from the Pope comes down in the church defrocking a priest and kicking him out, he no longer has any say in any matter in the local parish priest -- in the parish.”

This set of “consequences” affects anointed ones – the “holy priesthood” of God, as well as many others who have recognized the sound of Christ’s Truth. When choosing Christ’s full authority over men, they can distinguish between the rotten fruit of false/failed doctrine, and fine fruit sourced in Christ. John 15:1-8   Why is it, that the majority of JWs cannot recognize it?  Why is it that God’s anointed priests still inside, turn a blind eye to such falsehood?  Why do they not perceive THEY are the true Zion and that their hearts are the dwelling and Temple of God? 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Eph 2:20-22; Zech 8:3  Simply because they have filled their mind and heart with teachings/”fruit”/”wine” from false leaders, - harlots -  just like the Catholics who listen to the pope. John 7:18; Matt 7:15,16; Jer 2:21; Deut 32:32,33; John 15:5,16; Rev 17:1,2

But in this case, it is gravely serious, because these priests are God’s chosen people.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22

You said, 

“Hosea 4:6 shows that people will be silenced for lack of knowledge.” 

But let no one bring a charge,
    let no one accuse another
,
for your people are like those
    who bring charges
against a priest.

 (a Judicial committee of false “priests”/elders who are not anointed, judging God’s anointed priesthood as “spiritually dead” for accepting Christ as their Head, instead of a “wicked slave. Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; Rev 13:  Matt 24:48-51)


You stumble day and night,
    and the prophets stumble with you.
So I will destroy your mother—
    my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.

“Because you have rejected knowledge,
    I also reject you as my priests;
because you have ignored the law of your God,
    I also will ignore your children.
The more priests there were,
    the more they sinned against me;
    they exchanged their glorious God for something disgraceful.
They feed on the sins of my people
    and relish their wickedness.
And it will be: Like people, like priests.
    I will punish both of them for their ways
    and repay them for their deeds.

10 “They will eat but not have enough;
    they will engage in (spiritual) prostitution but not flourish,
because they have deserted the Lord
    to give themselves 11 to prostitution;
old wine and new wine ( old light, new light)
  take away their understanding.
12 My people consult a wooden idol,
    and a diviner’s rod speaks to them.
A spirit of prostitution leads them astray;
    they are unfaithful to their God.

Do JWs allow a spirit of prostitution to lead them astray?  Yes.  False prophets/Harlots have convinced you to “serve the organization”, transposing this to mean, serving God. Rev 13;1,4,7,8,11,14-17 Nothing on this earth is to be compared to, or served, except God and His Son.  Isa 42:8; 46:5,20; Luke 4:8; Rom 6:16 The apostles didn’t “serve” the needs of an organization, but they wholeheartedly served God and Jesus. Matt 6:24  Where does it say in the scriptures that an organization, other than the ‘organized’ anointed Body of Christ, the Temple of God, must be recognized as the pathway to salvation? Ps 2:6; Ezek 20:40; Rev 14:1   God and Christ both have absolutely no interest in earthly wealth, investments, or buildings that thrive in Satan’s world. Matt 6:19-21; Acts 17:24,25; Phil 3:19; Col 3:2  His only “investments” are those members of Christ’s Body; where His Holy Spirit dwells, as well as the hearts of those seeking pure Truth through His Son.  John 14:23

I would hope we are speaking of the authority of God and Christ, and not that of the governing body.  For them to say that God is responsible at any point in time, for Watchtower’s wayward teachings is an absolute lie; yet, they are guilty of doing so.  Did they let the real authority of the Bible speak, or was it from their own desires?  Ezek 13:3  JW have been disfellowshipped for bringing this to the attention of the elders.   

Is it possible for any JW to read scriptures in support of this truth, and take it into their heart?  Or, is the plentiful “fruit” of false teachers more desirable to “eat”?  It is easy to say one relies on the authority of the Bible; JWs are convinced they do, forgetting all the “bible-based” discarded books and teachings that are no longer in use. 

“God’s anger is revealed from heaven against every ungodly and immoral thing people do as they try to suppress the truth by their immoral living. 

They knew God but did not praise and thank him for being God. Instead, their thoughts were pointless, and their misguided minds were plunged into darkness. 22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools.

These people have exchanged God’s truth for a lie. So they have become ungodly and serve what is created rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen!  Rom 1:18,21,25

JWs, you believe you are out of the woods and have left false teachings behind; but you can’t see the forest for the trees.  These particular “trees”/teachers that you seek shelter under, waiting for their spiritual “food” to drop, have an axe waiting at the base of their bitter roots, to chop them down.  Jer 23:15; Matt 3:7-10; Heb 12:14-17;Rev 8:10-11; Rev 19:20

 

 

The best text related to the issue being discussed is the data provided by Jesus himself, at Matthew 13:24-30 and 36-43, which starts off as follows:

"Jesus told them another parable: "The Kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. The owner's servants came to him and said, "Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?" "An enemy did this", he replied. The servants asked him, "Do you want us to go and pull them up?" "No", he answered, "because while you are pulling the weeds, you root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned, then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn." (NIV)



Not wanting to allow for a variety of future interpretations of the above parable, Jesus himself, explained it in 13:36-43 as follows: "Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field". He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world [kosmos], and the good seed stands for the sons of the Kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his Kingdom everything that causes sin, and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."



Jesus explains that while he was on earth he, the "Son of Man", spread a specific message, "the seed of wheat", that resulted eventually in the formation of a body of original followers and/or co-workers, "the wheat". However, when his co-workers, the faithful apostles and their principal associates died, or "went to sleep" [death is compared to a type of sleep in over 700 places in the Hebrew and Christian Greek Scriptures], an enemy, the Devil, over-sowed the body of believers with others, "the weeds", who were not of the same ilk as the original community once was – resulting in a contamination, a negative infusion that proved to compromise that which was established by Jesus and his first followers.



As noted in the parable, it is only during "the end of the age", the time of the end, the last days, in which one would see a harvesting that would bring together once again the wheat, but now separate from the weeds – indeed, the call made at Revelation 18:4, for his people, to get out.



Interestingly, the koine Greek word translated as "weeds" is "zizanion" which is a kind of darnel, the bearded type, which significantly resembles wheat in "appearance", but only in appearance [Matthew 7:15-23] – a degenerate wheat.



Also interesting regarding zizanion, it is not until the time approaching harvest, that the zizanion becomes visible – and it does so because unlike wheat, it puts forth little black seeds at maturity, which become visible, and if eaten, can be deadly. It is the fruit, or "seeds" of this plant, which make it distinguishable from the true wheat.



The reason why Jesus chose this particular plant by word becomes obvious - the zizanion represented individuals "planted" by the oversower into the developing Christian institution. Who would claim to be genuine Christians, genuine "wheat". According to the parable, this poisoned and contaminated version of "Christianity" would be allowed to persist until the time of the end at which time a separating would transpire, i.e., the restoration.

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On 7/17/2018 at 10:59 PM, sami said:

So you were preaching false doctrine in the kingdom hall to Jehovah's Witnesses? Not a very smart move.

Dear sami,

Some scriptures have links.  For those that don’t, I do hope you look into the Bible and read.

What is your definition of “false doctrine”?  Being labeled an apostate by the Watchtower is the rejection of their own teachings unique to the organization.  If I believe in the Father and Christ, and are guided by God’s Word, I am not an apostate according to God’s Word.

We’ll start by seeing what the Watchtower says about its prophetic abilities:

"Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" (Watchtower April 1, 1972, p. 197)

What does the records show?  Let’s look at just a few examples over a hundred year span. 

"In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)

The "Gentile Times" prove that the present governments must all be overturned about the close of 1915 A.D." Studies In the Scriptures Series II - The Time Is At Hand 1915 ed. pp.99, 101, 242

"Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah p. 216

(We are now in the 21st century.)

“"Logically, the calling of the little flock would draw to a close when the number was nearing completion, and the evidence is that the general gathering of these specially blessed ones ended in 1935." Watchtower 1995 Feb 15 p.19

Logically?  Apparently not.

"Thus it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends." Watchtower 2007 May 1 p.31

Your Awake magazines before 11/8/1995, use to have this statement on the inner cover:

 "Why Awake is Published" “Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." 

That generation who saw the events of 1914 is no longer alive!  The magazine now states:

"Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things."

Do you hear Christ’s voice in any of these teachings?  Did your leaders hear Christ’s voice when they fabricated such teachings?   The failed doctrines of “this generation” are so twisted and so plentiful I chose not to list them.  But, I encourage you to check out Watchtower’s lengthy history of changed teachings regarding it.  It is JWs who follow a “Judas goat”/false prophets, putting their lives in jeopardy.  Jer 5:31  Jesus said we would recognize both false prophets and those he sends by the “fruit”/teachings they produce which is to last – not be discarded as you would toss aside a rotten apple.  John 15:4-8,16;13:20; Matt 24:4,5

Have you ever read the following scriptures?

Moses speaking:

“The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear,  according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’

17 “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”  Deut 18:15-22

Simply, the “prophets” of the organization since its inception have and continue to speak presumptuously on behalf of God, or in the name of another “god” (Jehovah’s organization)…and fail time and time again in their “predictions”.  There really is no wiggle room to get around what God predicts as their outcome. 

Jesus did not forego speaking up for Truth and exposing lies.  Those of Christ’s Body – the anointed ones – must also speak up for Truth, especially among each other.  2 Cor 10:4,5

On 7/17/2018 at 10:59 PM, sami said:

You must be a disfellowshipped person, HUH ? You should be supremely happy - you are now on the outside looking in so  stop pressing your nose against our windows.

 

The entire world is pressing its nose against Watchtower's windows.  No longer, can Watchtower hide its secrets.  Disfellowshipping has caused thousands to lose connection with their families; it has driven people to take their life; yet, I believe JWs seem to take all of this with tongue in cheek.  Victims of child abuse by other members of the organization, have been disfellowshipped; while perpetrators remain in the congregation.  I am sorry that you are so indoctrinated, you cannot see the lack of love among your leaders, who have twisted this form of counsel - into a catalyst of hate and destruction. This should be enacted by the anointed priesthood under their loving Head, Christ.  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; John 21:16; Heb 8:10; Rom 13:10; Heb 8:5,6  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+16%3A24-27%3B+Isa+57%3A13%3B++Rev+13%3A11%2C12%2C15%3B+11%3A3%2C7&version=NKJV

Your use of John 10:27 reminded me of a time in the JW “preaching work” with a woman who approached a man working in his yard. When he rejected her message, she walked away calling out loudly, “Christ’s sheep know his voice”.  This puzzled me, since our message was based on “Jehovah”, the organization, a paradise only obtainable through the organization, and the kingdom that supposedly began in 1914. I wondered if I had personally heard Christ’s voice. To believe that you have, while in the organization is pure folly. The governing body’s voices are much louder and much more demanding than Christ’s.  1 Cor 7:23; Rom 6:16; Matt 11:28-30  It wasn’t until leaving the Wt. did I “hear” his voice, unclouded by men’s doctrine loaded with falsehood.  I learned it was okay to respond to his voice in prayer, something that your Pharisee-like leaders tell you not to do.  John 6:68,69    Ask yourself, who’s voice are you really hearing?  Jesus did say those who hear his voice, follow him. John 10:27     https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Cor+7%3A23%3B+Rom+6%3A16%3B+Matt+11%3A28-30%3B+John+6%3A68%2C69+&version=NKJV

 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voiceBut they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”  John 10:1-5

An earthly corporation with many earthly holdings, is not the gate/door to salvation. Matt 6:24; Acts 4:12   Clearly, if you read the scriptures, Jesus is the gate, and the shepherd of his sheep. John 10:9  I am relieved and blessed I now recognize Christ’s voice.  It is no longer a stranger to me.  I am so grateful I ‘ran away’ from the thieves, your leaders, who preach “another Jesus” deliberately, to mislead the flock.    2 Cor 11:3,4; Ps 52:1-7  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+6%3A24%3B+Acts+4%3A12%3B+John+10%3A9%3B+2+Cor+11%3A3%2C4%3B+Ps+52%3A1-7&version=NKJV

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide (Watchtower organization) is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”  Matt 7:13,14

Regarding 2 Thess 2:7.  I really hope you can put aside your defense for the organization and try to engage yourself in these scriptures.

2 Thess 2:7 – (AMP)  “For the mystery of lawlessness [rebellion against divine authority and the coming reign of lawlessness] is already at work; [but it is restrained] only until he who now restrains it is taken out of the way. “

2 Thess 2:6 – “And you know what restrains him now [from being revealed]; it is so that he will be revealed at his own [appointed] time.”

This lawlessness is not accomplished by one person, but a collective reign -  a power that has now been revealed.  The “day of the Lord” is prophesied to have come in 1914 by your literature.

 Look what 2 Thess 2: 1,2 says about this:

“Now in regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to meet Him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] *from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come. 

*”from us” – from other anointed ones, but who have “gone out” from the Body.  1 John 2:19

In other words, you should reject Watchtower’s “revelation” about 1914!  Why?

“Let no one in any way deceive or entrap you, for that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first [that is, the great rebellion, the abandonment of the faith by professed Christians], and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction [the Antichrist, the one who is destined to be destroyed], who opposes and exalts himself [so proudly and so insolently] above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he [actually enters and] takes his seat in the temple of God, publicly proclaiming that he himself is God.”  2 Thess 2:3,4

There is only one temple of God, found in the hearts of the anointed ones.  Can you envision this?  John 2:19-22; Acts 4:11;  Matt 16:18; Eph 2:20-22  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+2%3A19-22%3B+Acts+4%3A11%3B++Matt+16%3A18%3B+Eph+2%3A20-22&version=NKJV

To te anointed ones of his time, Paul said:

Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple. 1 Cor 3:16,17

How would a collective “man of lawlessness” reign, or “take his seat” over the anointed priesthood of God?  It has developed gradually, and it is within the organization where the anointed are found.  The elder body are, in God’s sight, “foreigners” standing in the Temple of God. 2 Chron 23:6,7; Num 18:7; Ezek 44:6-9 They have been given authority by the administrating anointed ones (GB) to “rule” God’s personal “heritage” – His chosen people.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Matt 24:48-51  This is the lawlessness at work among those who “profess” to be Christians.  2 Chron 13:9  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Chron+23%3A6%2C7%3B+Num+18%3A7%3B+Ezek+44%3A6-9%3BIsa+43%3A10%3B+1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%2C10%3B+Matt+24%3A48-51%3B+2+Chron+13%3A9++&version=NKJV

 

Do you know where we can find further description of this present “lawlessness”? It is in the Beast of Revelation 13:1,18, and the 4th Beast of Daniel’s image. (Dan 7:7)

This Beast, (Rev 13:1) along with Revelation’s false prophet (Rev 13:11) unitedly work together to claim power over the “holy ones.”  Rev 13:6,7; Dan 12:7  YOU reside with the anointed ones.  YOU accept the lawless rule over them, and over yourself.   When Jesus prophesied that a “disgusting thing” would be found in the temple, it was a two-fold prophesy.  It came upon the city of Jerusalem leading to its destruction by a Gentile Roman army.  It has appeared again upon the “New Jerusalem”/Temple of God – the anointed Body of Christ. Matt 24:15,16; Rev 11:1-3  Those who are not anointed as spiritual “Israel”, are spiritual “Gentiles”.  Rom 2:28,29; Rev 7:4  The elder body is by far, not anointed.

Christ’s voice is heard by those who reject the Beasts and their great deception to come against the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”.  Rev 12:17  I do hope you ask God if you are on the side of pure, unadulterated by falsehoods, TRUTH, since you are seeing the effects of the battle of truth against lies.  Those anointed “kings” who side with Christ in truth, against anointed “kings” who side with Satan and his delusion.  2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 20:7-9

2 Thess 2:9,10  (AMP)“The coming of the [Antichrist, the lawless] one is through the activity of Satan, [attended] with great power [all kinds of counterfeit miracles] and [deceptive] signs and false wonders [all of them lies], 10 and by unlimited seduction to evil and with all the deception of wickedness for those who are perishing, because they did not welcome the love of the truth [of the gospel] so as to be saved [they were spiritually blind, and rejected the truth that would have saved them]. 11 Because of this God will send upon them a misleading influence, [an activity of error and deception] so they will believe the lie12 in order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe the truth [about their sin, and the need for salvation through Christ], but instead took pleasure in unrighteousness.”

Do you believe the lie that Christ approves of failed doctrines?  That God approves an organization that must be cherished and revered as one’s path to salvation over His Son?  Do you believe the anointed ones, God’s true priesthood/teachers must remain apart from one another in the organization as your leaders teach you? Do you believe the organization is “spirit-directed” by God, when its leaders have admitted they personally, are not?   All of these things are what the Watchtower teaches. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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    • folens  »  Eric Ouellet

      Hello Eric, merci pour ces beaux sujets de méditation. Bon weekend et à bientôt Michel
      PS je ne sais plus si je te l'ai déjà envoyé.
      1805305975_FOIFERME.mp4
      · 1 reply
    • Eric Ouellet

      Louez Jéhovah, Alliance de l'Amour fidèle en action
      Je veux louer Jéhovah ;
      que tout ce qui est en moi loue son saint nom.
      Je veux louer Jéhovah ;
      je ne veux jamais oublier tout ce qu’il a fait.
      Il pardonne toutes tes fautes
      et guérit tous tes maux,
      il rachète ta vie de la fosse
      et te couronne de son amour fidèle et de sa miséricorde.
      Il te rassasie de bonnes choses  toute ta vie,
      afin que ta jeunesse se renouvelle comme celle d’un aigle.
      Jéhovah agit avec droiture et justice
      en faveur de tous les opprimés.
      Il a fait connaître ses chemins à Moïse,
      ses actes aux fils d’Israël.
      Jéhovah est miséricordieux et compatissant,
      il est lent à se mettre en colère et abondant en amour fidèle.
      Il ne fait pas de reproches constamment
      et ne garde pas de ressentiment pour toujours.
      Il n’agit pas avec nous selon nos péchés
      et ne nous rend pas ce que nous méritons pour nos fautes.
      Car autant les cieux sont plus hauts que la terre,
      autant son amour fidèle envers ceux qui le craignent est immense.
      Autant le levant est loin du couchant,
      autant il éloigne de nous nos transgressions.
      Comme un père fait miséricorde à ses fils,
      Jéhovah fait miséricorde à ceux qui le craignent.
      Car il sait bien de quoi nous sommes formés,
      il se souvient que nous sommes poussière.
      Quant au mortel, ses jours sont comme ceux de l’herbe.
      Il fleurit comme la fleur des champs.
      Puis un vent souffle, et elle n’est plus,
      comme si elle n’avait jamais été là.
      Mais l’amour fidèle de Jéhovah est éternel
      envers ceux qui le craignent,
      et sa justice s’étend aux enfants de leurs enfants,
      à ceux qui respectent son alliance
      et à ceux qui prennent soin d’obéir à ses ordres.
      Jéhovah a solidement établi son trône dans les cieux,
      et sa royauté s’exerce sur tout.
      Louez Jéhovah, vous, tous ses anges extrêmement puissants
      qui, obéissant à sa voix, exécutez sa parole.
      Louez Jéhovah, vous, toutes ses armées,
      ses ministres, qui faites sa volonté.
      Louez Jéhovah, vous, toutes ses œuvres,
      dans tous les lieux où il domine.
      Que tout mon être loue Jéhovah !

      · 0 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      Je veux louer Jéhovah !
      Ô Jéhovah mon Dieu, tu es très grand.
      Tu es revêtu de majesté et de splendeur
      Tu es enveloppé de lumière comme d’un vêtement ;
      tu étends les cieux comme une toile de tente.
      Il pose les poutres de ses chambres hautes dans les eaux en haut,
      des nuages il fait son char,
      il avance sur les ailes du vent.
      Il fait de ses anges des esprits,
      de ses ministres un feu dévorant.
      Il a établi la terre sur ses fondations;
      jamais elle ne sera enlevée de son emplacement.
      Tu l’as couverte d’eaux profondes comme d’un vêtement.
      Les eaux se tenaient au-dessus des montagnes.
      À ta réprimande, elles ont pris la fuite ;
      au bruit de ton tonnerre, elles se sont enfuies tout affolées
       — des montagnes se sont élevées et des vallées se sont creusées —
      vers le lieu que tu as établi pour elles.
      Tu as fixé une frontière qu’elles ne doivent pas franchir,
      pour qu’elles ne couvrent plus la terre.
      Il envoie des sources dans les vallées ;
      elles coulent entre les montagnes.
      Elles fournissent de l’eau à toutes les bêtes sauvages des champs ;
      les ânes sauvages y apaisent leur soif.
      Au-dessus d’elles se perchent les oiseaux du ciel ;
      ils chantent parmi l’épais feuillage.
      Depuis tes chambres hautes, tu abreuves les montagnes.
      La terre est rassasiée du fruit de tes œuvres.
      Il fait pousser l’herbe pour le bétail
      et la végétation pour l’usage des humains,
      pour faire produire à la terre de la nourriture :
      le vin qui réjouit le cœur de l’homme,
      l’huile qui fait briller le visage
      et le pain qui réconforte le cœur du mortel.
      Les arbres de Jéhovah sont rassasiés,
      les cèdres du Liban qu’il a plantés.
      Les oiseaux y font des nids.
      La maison de la cigogne est dans les genévriers.
      Les hautes montagnes sont pour les chèvres de montagne,
      les rochers sont le refuge des damans.
      Il a fait la lune pour marquer les périodes fixées ;
      le soleil sait parfaitement quand se coucher.
      Tu amènes l’obscurité, et la nuit tombe,
      moment où tous les animaux sauvages de la forêt s’animent.
      Les jeunes lions rugissent après leur proie
      et demandent à Dieu leur nourriture.
      Quand le soleil se lève,
      ils se retirent dans leurs tanières, où ils se couchent.
      L’homme va travailler,
      et il peine jusqu’au soir.
      Que tes œuvres sont nombreuses, ô Jéhovah !
      Tu les as toutes faites avec sagesse.
      La terre est pleine de tes productions.
      Il y a la mer, si grande et si vaste,
      qui grouille de choses vivantes, petites et grandes.
      Là circulent les navires,
      et aussi Léviathan, que tu as formé pour qu’il s’y amuse.
      Eux tous comptent sur toi
      pour recevoir leur nourriture en temps voulu.
      Ce que tu leur donnes, ils le ramassent.
      Tu ouvres ta main, et ils sont rassasiés de bonnes choses.
      Tu détournes ton attention, et ils sont perturbés.
      Si tu leur retires l’esprit, ils meurent et retournent à la poussière.
      Si tu envoies ton esprit, ils sont créés,
      et tu renouvelles la surface du sol.
      La gloire de Jéhovah durera éternellement.
      Jéhovah se réjouira de ses œuvres.
      Il regarde la terre, et elle tremble ;
      il touche les montagnes, et elles fument.
      Je veux chanter pour Jéhovah toute ma vie,
      je veux chanter des louanges à mon Dieu aussi longtemps que je vivrai.
      Que mes pensées lui soient agréables.
      Je me réjouirai au sujet de Jéhovah.
      Les pécheurs disparaîtront de la terre
      et les méchants n’existeront plus.
      Je veux louer Jéhovah ! Louez Yah.

      · 0 replies
    • renzo  »  misette

      Bonjour Misette , je cherche les retranscriptions des cultes matinaux mais sur chaque document en ligne il est noté que le fichier n'est pas disponible. Peux tu stp me dire comment il est possible de recevoir ces retranscriptions ?  Merci d'avance
      Bien fraternellement
       
      · 3 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      Remerciez Jéhovah, louez son nom 
       
      Remerciez Jéhovah, louez son nom ;
      parmi les peuples, faites connaître ses actions grandioses !
      Chantez pour lui, chantez-lui des louanges,
      méditez sur tous ses actes prodigieux.
      Soyez fiers de son saint nom.
      Que le cœur de ceux qui recherchent Jéhovah se réjouisse.
      Recherchez Jéhovah et sa force.
      Cherchez constamment son visage.
      Souvenez-vous des actes prodigieux qu’il a accomplis,
      de ses miracles et des jugements qu’il a prononcés,
      vous, descendants de son serviteur Abraham,
      vous, fils de Jacob, ceux qu’il a choisis !
      Il est Jéhovah notre Dieu.
      Ses jugements s’appliquent sur toute la terre.
      Pour toujours, il se souvient de son alliance,
      pendant mille générations, de la promesse qu’il a faite,
      de l’alliance qu’il a conclue avec Abraham
      et du serment qu’il a fait à Isaac,
      serment qu’il a établi comme décret pour Jacob
      et comme alliance permanente pour Israël,
      en disant : « Je te donnerai le pays de Canaan ;
      ce sera ta part d’héritage. »
      C’était lorsqu’ils étaient en petit nombre,
      oui, peu nombreux, et qu’ils étaient étrangers dans le pays.
      Ils circulaient d’une nation à l’autre,
      d’un royaume vers un autre peuple.
      Il ne laissa aucun homme les opprimer;
      pour eux, il réprimanda des rois,
      en disant : « Ne touchez pas à mes oints
      et ne faites aucun mal à mes prophètes. »
      Il appela une famine sur le pays ;
      il les priva de pain.
      Il envoya en avant d’eux un homme,
      Joseph, qui fut vendu comme esclave.
      On lui lia les pieds par des entraves,
      on lui mit le cou dans les fers ;
      la déclaration de Jéhovah, c’est ce qui l’affina,
      jusqu’au moment où la parole de Dieu s’accomplit.
      Le roi ordonna de le libérer,
      le chef des peuples le relâcha.
      Il l’établit maître de son palais,
      chef sur tous ses biens,
      pour qu’il ait autorité sur ses princes comme il lui semblait bon
      et qu’il enseigne la sagesse aux aînés.
      Alors Israël vint en Égypte,
      et Jacob résida comme étranger au pays de Cham.
      Dieu rendit son peuple très fécond ;
      il le rendit plus fort que ses adversaires,
      dont il laissa le cœur changer pour qu’ils haïssent son peuple,
      pour qu’ils conspirent contre ses serviteurs.
      Il envoya son serviteur Moïse,
      et Aaron, qu’il avait choisi.
      Ils accomplirent ses signes parmi eux,
      ses miracles au pays de Cham.
      Il envoya l’obscurité, et le pays s’enténébra;
      ils ne se rebellèrent pas contre ses paroles.
      Il changea leurs eaux en sang
      et tua leurs poissons.
      Leur pays fut envahi de grenouilles,
      jusque dans les chambres royales.
      Il ordonna aux taons de les envahir
      et aux moustiques d’infester leurs territoires.
      Il changea leur pluie en grêle
      et envoya la foudre sur leur pays.
      Il frappa leurs vignes et leurs figuiers
      et brisa les arbres de leur territoire.
      Il ordonna que les criquets les envahissent,
      de jeunes criquets sans nombre.
      Ils dévorèrent toute la végétation du pays,
      et ils dévorèrent les produits du sol.
      Puis il abattit tout premier-né dans leur pays,
      le début de leur puissance procréatrice.
      Il fit sortir son peuple chargé d’argent et d’or;
      et parmi ses tribus, personne ne trébucha.
      Quand ils partirent, les Égyptiens se réjouirent,
      car la terreur qu’Israël inspirait s’était emparée d’eux.
      Il déploya un nuage pour dissimuler son peuple,
      et un feu pour l’éclairer la nuit.
      Ils demandèrent, et il fit venir des cailles ;
      il les rassasiait du pain du ciel.
      Il ouvrit un rocher, et les eaux coulèrent ;
      elles coulèrent dans le désert comme un fleuve.
      Car il se souvenait de la promesse sainte qu’il avait faite à son serviteur Abraham.
      Il fit donc sortir son peuple dans l’allégresse,
      ceux qu’il avait choisis, dans un cri de joie.
      Il leur donna les terres des nations ;
      ils héritèrent de ce que d’autres peuples avaient produit en peinant,
      afin qu’ils respectent ses décrets
      et obéissent à ses lois.
      Louez Yah !

      · 0 replies
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