DAVID SPLANE AND HIS CARING SHEPHERDS

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@b4ucuhear  It was you that mentioned a group of Elders ganging up on an innocent one. 

And it has been proven that elders have ganged up on victims of CSA. 

And as I said Elders have to obey their superiors. 

You mentioned Satan testing Job, so it must be Satan has got a good foot in the door of the CCJW. 

You mentioned a man that " yet he faithfully continued on and never saw justice in his lifetime." But you said he was disfellowshipped.  Am I understanding that correctly. 

Are you thus saying that a disfellowshipped person can continue to serve God properly ?

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, b4ucuhear said:

But Satan was more interested in compromising Job's integrity - his everlasting prospects based on his relationship with God. How did he do that? By making the test very difficult to rationalize or understand within the context of his faith. He made it appear as "discipline from Jehovah."

Do You suggest how satan has more power over people than god plan to give him? Do You suggest how context of individual or organized faith in WTJWorg, as in example of Job or old Jew people in past time, is not sufficient to reveal devil's games and deceit? .... I can agree with with this, if you think the same. But, that would mean how devil is powerful enough to deceive whole WTJWorg in the same manner, as he done with many other individuals, groups and nations before.  

3 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

an appeal in writing of the decision if the person feels strongly they were not dealt with fairly/scipturally.

So, JW elders are not what they have to be?

3 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

it's pretty standard practice to be notified that they can appeal.

Standard practice in secular law system? Because secular law system is not good enough as WTJWorg judicial system is? JW elders are guided by HS because of elder's prayer and bible principles, so why congregants would need "standard practice"?

3 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

you would have to have access to written instructions and directions through letters and books. Apparently you don't - which I would say is a good thing frankly.

Secrecy? Secret knowledge? Knowledge that few can understand?

3 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

Are there Bible examples of persons in authority who reversed their decision once they found out they made a bad decision? Yes, of course. Look it up. I'm not going to do your homework for you.  

When Judicial committee made decision about the "case" and announced it before congregation, do you say how they making second or third or fourth meeting and take time to discussing how their first decision is not so good ? 

3 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

As for posthumous reinstatement, evidently the elder body thought it fair

Idea and practice of posthumous reinstatement, you said is happening in JWorg, is out of mind. You can't reinstate dead body. But you can "punish" elders who done bad things. And public announcement about this, can bring some satisfaction to living family, relatives, friends and brothers who witnessed to injustice. 

[Witness]

15 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

It would be unfair to paint with too wide a brush to basically say "everyone" is "always" this or that. Many/most brothers who serve as elders are loving shepherds who just want to do what is right. Who love Jehovah, love their families and love their brothers and sisters - regardless of whether you share their beliefs or not. But as has always been true, (whether in the times of the patriarchs, Israelites under Law and even the Christian congregation), there have been men who were "bad actors" who were anything but loving. Who grasped at positions of authority for totally the wrong reasons. Do we have men like that today?

I appreciate your candor. Similar accounts that you have described is happening to anointed throughout the world, not just in your neck of the woods.  Yes, there are "good" elders with integrity, who pay attention to their conscience and either step down or leave the organization.  

I hope you will look at the “broad application” of things, which my following post explains. This was a comment I made here a few years back, but I can’t seem to find a lot of my old posts, so I dug it up elsewhere.  I suppose there is a need to control and purge what I’m allowed to say here.  Or, maybe all experience the same for the sake of the forum’s operations. 

 

Imagine a large room, where genuine anointed ones from the organization have gathered together. I say “genuine” because it is becoming a discreet trend for many to partake during the memorial, who are not anointed. In my mind, I see this as another attempt by Satan to seduce individuals into thinking that all are part of the anointed Body of Christ, under the New Covenant; and which is another step in concealing who the “holy ones” are.

Imagine that these anointed ones in the room are robed in the holy garments that clearly identify them in like manner as the early holy priesthood, awaiting sanctification to serve in God’s Temple. (Exod 28:39-43; 39:22-31; 1 Cor 6:11; 2 Cor 7:1; Heb 8:5)

From a door located on one side of this large room, another group arrives; men who are not wearing the holy priestly garb. They are not “circumcised” priests, but are “Gentiles” that have unofficially entered the courts of God’s Temple. Each man approaches and stands before an anointed priest, removes their holy garments, and dons the stolen robes, masking the true intentions of the heart. (Rom 2:28,29; 9:6; Heb 8:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Joel 2:1-2; Rev.9:3-10; Matt.24:21; Luke21:20,24; Rev.13:10,7) 

They tell the anointed ones to exit by the other door; which they do, with no questions asked. The result obliterates any “daily sacrifice” that only the authentic priests are able, and are obligated, to perform. With the new fraudulent priesthood come new “sacrifices of praise” that support - not God - but an idol…an organization.   (1 Chron 23:30-32; 2 Chron 20:11,12; Ezek 8:6; 2 Cor 11:20; Matt 24:15; 1 Pet 2:5; Rom 12:1; Heb 13:15; Rev 2:20) 

These “uncircumcised” “Gentiles” have been given free access by powerful, rebellious traitors against Christ, to enter God’s Temple…and defile it. No longer does God hear the praises from his holy ones, and no longer can His “living stones” be called, Holy. God’s genuine priesthood has been “defrocked” and a false priesthood now demands their obedience. (Ezek 5:11; 1 Cor 3:17; Luke 16:3; Ezek 44:6-8; Rev 13:11,12,15; Ps 79:1) 

In reality, we do not see the anointed priesthood wearing holy garments. Within the Watchtower, we cannot distinguish how they are set apart for a special work under the New Covenant.( Mark 14:22-24) We may only notice them partaking of emblems at the memorial each year; but please, JWs, picture them as each one being part of God’s Temple as a “living”, Temple “stone”. (John 2:19-21;1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) Should these stones be replaced with those ‘carved’ by men? (Deut 27:5-8; 1 Kings 6:7; Matt 16:18) 

Because it takes spiritual discernment to see this, the Watchtower relies on their ability to cover over these spiritual insights of scripture; and by doing so, have successfully “defrocked” God’s priesthood, replacing them with “uncircumcised” “Gentiles” – the Body of Elders. (Ezek 44:23,24; Mal 2:7-9) The "sacrifices of praise" by this false priesthood do not ascend to God, since those have been abolished. They are praises supporting the Watchtower Idol - "Jehovah's organization". (Rev 13:4,7,8) 

 

Watchtower 02/8/1 “REPRESENTING the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not.” “Rather than CHALLENGE their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders!”

To enforce this blasphemous authorization of replacing God’s Temple priests, the article boldly states:
“Jehovah’s spirit is upon them; they have his approval.”

Is this true? God’s Word verifies that it has never been acceptable for his temple priesthood to be replaced.

2 Chron 23:6-  ^“No one is to enter the temple of the Lord except the priests and Levites on duty; they may enter because they are consecrated, but all the others are to observe the Lord’s command not to enter.”

2 Chron 13:9 - "But didn’t you drive out the priests of the Lord, the sons of Aaron, and the Levites, and make priests of your own as the peoples of other lands do? Whoever comes to consecrate himself with a young bull and seven rams may become a priest of what are not gods."

Matthew 24:15 – “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ (the “disgusting thing”) spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)”

How can we relate this scripture to the elder body having authority over the anointed priesthood in the organization? Rev 11:1,2, shows “Gentiles” overtaking the sanctuary/"holy place" of God, and robbing the anointed priesthood of their ‘holy garments’; thus desolating the sanctuary.
Also, Daniel reveals the intentions of WT’s leaders to destroy God’s “sanctuary”:

“He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered. “ Dan 8:11,12

The last powerful and “unusual” force of Daniel’s image expresses two contrasting elements – one of clay and one of iron, found together. The entirety of this image describes powers that have affected God’s people during their individual historic reigns, but notice:

 “The feet of the image shows that the reign over the anointed in the time of the end, is dual.
Not only is the metallic element still there (as it was in the previous powers- All "Gentiles"-not God's people) (Gentiles-Iron); for the first time, the statue contains "clay" of the earth..."the offspring of MANKIND". (Dan.2:41,42,43)

This clay represents those who belong to the "Potter" (Isa.29:16; 45:9; Jer.18:6; Rom.9:21), and they SHOULD be molded by Him alone. But instead, they mold themselves to the Iron (Gentiles) by conforming themselves to the iron, allowing the iron to mold them, rather than God.

Unknowingly, these "clay" actually conform to Satan's will, becoming a part of Satan's dominion over God's people (Rev.9:1; 17:12). In a short time, that clay hardens to this form (as baked clay), and is no longer useful to its original owner. It is now suited only for destruction as an extension of Satan's "body".

This has come to pass, in that the anointed today are DOMINATED within the Organization, not only by spiritual "Gentiles" alone; but by their own brothers who have joined in with the Gentiles to dominate their brothers in Christ....the wicked steward with "confirmed drunkards" from outside the master's household (Matt.24:45,48,49,50,51).

When Christ, through the final capstone, "smashes" the feet of the image of Daniel (Dan.2:34,45; Heb.11:10; Eze.3:8,9; Isa.50:7; 45:17; 49:8; 54:4; Micah.1:2); it is not smashing all of Satan's world, but only the Image Satan has used to dominate God's people, which is NOT Satan's entire world-wide dominion.

It is well known that the Image of Daniel does not contain all the political identities which have ever existed in Satan's world; But only ones which have dominated God's chosen people.”

From “Iron and Clay” – 4womaninthewilderness blogspot

Please, JWs, educate yourselves of the vital importance of this priesthood dominated by the fourth Beast of Daniel’s visions. Dan 7:7 Not only are the anointed ones affected by such a crushing duel power, but also are all who reside in the organization. We are to FLEE AWAY from this abomination and come to the true Mountain that will destroy the last power to afflict God’s people. Matt 24:16

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Witness  Much of what you say makes sense. I'm not saying that I'm fully convinced, though I think I am referred to by others as 'one of your disciples' .  

However, you seem to refer to the past and the present, but not the future. 

I agree that the Anointed should be 'leading' the way, not be hidden, but how will this happen in your opinion ? If the Anointed are too meek and easily overruled then how will they rise up to serve God properly ? Have they in fact dishonoured God, and will they need replacing ? 

My feeling is that a True Anointed will rise up and that the present leaders will need to be 'removed from office' if the CCJW is to be used by God through Christ. The changes in the 'Org' will have to be dramatic to make it 'clean' and holy for God's purpose. But how and when ? 

[Arauna]

A cry for more power from a woman who wants more say in the congregation.  I think in Revelation it warns about a Jezebel influence

[Arauna]

18 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

By making the test very difficult to rationalize or understand within the context of his faith. He made it appear as "discipline from Jehovah." As if God was unfairly disciplining him for something he knew he was not guilty of.

Good point dear. A learning moment for me.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Some things are blatantly unfair, but that point may be lost when observed by the inexperienced.

The classic example is the question "Do you STILL beat your wife?"

Life is very complex, with almost if not actual "infinite variety"

For example, there may be twenty or more possible reasons why Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate birthdays ... anything from the official reasons given, which I have no problem with but for completely different reasons ( I think it is a good idea to be alienated from MANY social conventions ...).

I have perhaps far too often for good mental health thought that Presidents of the United States should be able to make one completely arbitrary "rule" during their administration. If I was President, I would make one day "Turtle Day", and everybody would have to stay home that day, and think Chelonian thoughts, so as not to run over any turtles crossing the road.

If I have ideas like this, it is not too far a stretch that WTB&TS  President Joseph Rutherford, et al, sitting down reading the Bible, might have the same sort of ideas.

Of course, there are MANY possible explanations, completely eliminating divine guidance, concerning many social customs.

 

[b4ucuhear]

On 4/27/2020 at 1:47 PM, 4Jah2me said:

You mentioned Satan testing Job, so it must be Satan has got a good foot in the door of the CCJW. 

non sequitur

On 4/27/2020 at 1:47 PM, 4Jah2me said:

Are you thus saying that a disfellowshipped person can continue to serve God properly ?

It depends on whether the human decision was based on God's standards. Job, Jesus, Jeremiah...were all pariahs at one time, but not in Jehovah's eyes. Humans are limited, not miraculously inspired, imperfect, and can be easily fooled - especially when they want to be - when it is the path of least resistance. Other times there is simply little you have the authority to do anything about. But you know that already right?

On 4/27/2020 at 3:52 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Do You suggest how satan has more power over people than god plan to give him?

No.

On 4/27/2020 at 3:52 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Do You suggest how context of individual or organized faith in WTJWorg, as in example of Job or old Jew people in past time, is not sufficient to reveal devil's games and deceit?

I have no idea of what your are trying to say here. Sorry.

On 4/27/2020 at 3:52 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

that would mean how devil is powerful enough to deceive whole WTJWorg in the same manner, as he done with many other individuals, groups and nations before.  

No.

On 4/27/2020 at 3:52 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

So, JW elders are not what they have to be?

Seriously? You know they are imperfect right? Like you, me and every other human in existence, they can make mistakes in thought, action and judgment. I'm pretty sure you already know and accept that, right?

On 4/27/2020 at 3:52 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Secrecy? Secret knowledge? Knowledge that few can understand?

Well if you call hundreds of thousands of JW's all over the world plus what has been revealed on the internet "secret knowledge" be my guest. Although I would add that certain information is classed as confidential as is true in any organization - religious or otherwise. 

On 4/27/2020 at 3:52 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

When Judicial committee made decision about the "case" and announced it before congregation, do you say how they making second or third or fourth meeting and take time to discussing how their first decision is not so good ? 

You have it all backwards. Any appeal process is supposed to be exhausted before a final decision is made and later announced. (That assumes of course the men who are supposed to arrange the appeal don't have something to hide themselves. Then good luck getting an appeal - but that would be rare in my experience.)

On 4/27/2020 at 3:52 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Idea and practice of posthumous reinstatement, you said is happening in JWorg, is out of mind. You can't reinstate dead body. But you can "punish" elders who done bad things. And public announcement about this, can bring some satisfaction to living family, relatives, friends and brothers who witnessed to injustice. 

Out of your mind maybe. I've only heard of this happening once and I agree with having a man's reputation restored in behalf of his friends and family who knew him. I would want that for sure if it was me. Apparently you wouldn't - that's fine. 

16 hours ago, Witness said:

I appreciate your candor. Similar accounts that you have described is happening to anointed throughout the world, not just in your neck of the woods.

I can only speak definitively on things I have seen in person or from first-person accounts from people I know personally and trust as being the "real deal." I personally have been all over the world, but that still doesn't quality me to make a statement to the effect it was happening elsewhere to any large scale past where I am. While I have been to many places, I haven't been there in a capacity where I would be intimately acquainted with the judicial matters associated with each congregation, let alone which anointed Christians felt like they were being persecuted. Nor would I put much credence in internet stories that any anonymous person could invent. I don't even expect people to believe what I say. as scripturally I'm not providing the names of any witnesses to corroborate anything I have said here. That being the case, while I wouldn't categorically dismiss your assertion, neither would I categorically accept it as representing a world-wide scenario.                   I  I thank-you and appreciate your taking the time to explain your point of view and the sincerity you have of your convictions, but I can't say I buy it. I'm sure it sounds reasonable and logical to some/many people but your personal interpretation seems to go well beyond the scope of your reference in many respects. Too many for me to go into detail here. In fact, this is where I will choose to depart from this thread, as I feel I should take my own advice and not get enmeshed in pointless arguments with opposers who don't even agree amongst themselves. I respect all of your decisions to not want to be a JW. But that's not where I want to be. I like it here. I'm happy here. I'm fulfilled here. I have a rewarding, purposeful existence here with a bright outlook and good friends. I can't see me trolling internet websites in order push a negative and often hateful agenda. I have better things to do. So bye!

[Arauna]

14 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

You know they are imperfect right? Like

Ask him if he realizes he is imperfect too.... and can bluff himself. 

[Arauna]

14 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

as I feel I should take my own advice and not get enmeshed in pointless arguments with opposers who don't even agree amongst

Good decision. 

[Srecko Sostar]

15 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

On 4/27/2020 at 9:52 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Idea and practice of posthumous reinstatement, you said is happening in JWorg, is out of mind. You can't reinstate dead body. But you can "punish" elders who done bad things. And public announcement about this, can bring some satisfaction to living family, relatives, friends and brothers who witnessed to injustice. 

Out of your mind maybe. I've only heard of this happening once and I agree with having a man's reputation restored in behalf of his friends and family who knew him. I would want that for sure if it was me. Apparently you wouldn't - that's fine.

81.13 Restoration Within Two Years. If within two years from the date of his suspension a brother tenders payment to the Secretary of the lodge which suspended him, the amount he owed at the time of his suspension plus restoration fee of five dollars, and the amount of the dues for the current year, or if the lodge by a majority vote of the members present remits the same or a part thereof and if such payment and/or remission shall make him clear on the books, he shall be automatically restored to membership as of the date of such payment or remission and due notice shall be taken thereof in the minutes of the lodge at the next stated communication.

81.14 Restoration After Two Years. A suspended member who has remained suspended for a period of more than two years cannot be restored to membership automatically. Such a member shall be required to present a written request to the lodge setting forth his desire to be restored and shall tender therewith payment of all dues in arrears at the time of his suspension plus the amount of the dues for the current year and plus restoration fee of five dollars. The Master will appoint a committee for investigation and report. At a subsequent stated communication the lodge shall by secret ballot take action on the question of restoration. A three-fourths favorable ballot of the members present shall be necessary for restoration. If the member stands rejected the payment tendered with his request for restoration shall be returned to him, and he shall not apply again within six months from the date of rejection.

81.16 When Restoration Not Permitted. If the address of a member suspended for the nonpayment of dues is unknown and he has never signified a desire to restore his membership or if he dies while suspended, a lodge cannot accept from any other person a payment of his dues and then restore him to membership. - http://members.wisc-freemasonry.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Wisconsin-Masonic-Code_2018_Revision.pdf

In Google searching for  WTJWorg terminology - posthumous reinstatement - nothing was found. But i found Masons Constitution. But again, nothing about dead people :))). 

16 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

I've only heard of this happening once

.... hear and say ??? But nothing in print. Perhaps some memo (BOE letter) for elders eye only? :)))

JW's said there is no life after death and how dead person payed for all their sins and waiting for resurrection.

Also, God and Jesus will judge all people, including dead people. But you say how elders are in capacity to deal with dead JW members. :))) Or, particular elders just have to do cleaning job, because of living elders who made a mess.

[Witness]

On 4/28/2020 at 4:13 AM, Arauna said:

A cry for more power from a woman who wants more say in the congregation.  I think in Revelation it warns about a Jezebel influence

You might have reason for argument, if it wasn’t for the fact that I’m not a JW who is part of a congregation. (Job 15:1-3)