Interesting thought about the initial rebellion

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Be a sport ... look it up.

Jehovah was surprised!

I was.

I did.

He wasn’t.

You’re wrong.

It’s his heart that it never came up into, his center of motivation. It is the furthest thing from what he would ever do. It’s not that he can’t imagine it.

There is division among translators over this verse. Someone want to spend some time looking into this? I’ll take the NWT any day in this case. It dovetails far better with everything else we know of God.

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Jeremiah 7%3A31

One translation best captures the “mind” sense with, “I never entertained the thought,” which is not the same as being “surprised.”

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And the question/issue of "love"

Humans know different types of 'love' but I don't think humans understand love from God's perspective.

God's ways are far higher than human ways.

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

the "universal issue".

And this also, we can only see from a human perspective.  Arauna replied to me once that 'humans are important', but I think not in comparison to the Universal issue.  

It would seem that millions of humans will die at the Judgement time, and it will be a necessary 'operation'.  A bit like clearing a building site before building a nice new house. Many humans cannot handle thinking about it, they see it as hateful / cruel.. And in reality I think many JWs try not to think about it. But, God will do what God will do to solve the Universal issue. 

[TrueTomHarley]

5 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But, God will do what God will do to solve the Universal issue. 

I’ll give PSomH an upvote for this. He doesn’t get that many from me.

[Arauna]

29 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Someone want to spend some time looking into this?

A long time ago I did.  Jehovah is not overcome by anything wicked and cannot do evil - but it does not mean that he did not foresee the possibility that Adam could sin. He knows all.  The whole world is wicked right now and the thoughts of people are wicked all the time just  like before the flood - but Jehovah has the capacity to look to the greater issues and tolerate this and yet he knows about all of it.  It does not  affect his perfection or his justice

[Arauna]

55 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And 1914

 

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

not be in such a difficult emotional state,

God was grieved because he does not want any to die.... But he is logical and knows and allows for personal choice.  There is a few times he was grieved but he always did the righteous thing. You read to much in it - to call it a "state". ... it seems like you compare god to an overemotional female.

 

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

universe is there life except on Earth and around a God surrounded by angels.

The angels are a different life form - but still Jehovah created them.  There IS a universal issue playing out because the wicked angels were also proved to be wrong when Jesus died.  That is why jesus went to show them that he had been resurrected!  Jesus came from 'heaven' and showed integrity till death as a human - taking a life form lower than the angels.  This means that his loyalty to Jehovah condemned all perfect (heavenly and earthly creatures) who deliberately sinned and saved those imperfect humans who put faith in the ransom sacrifice. 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, xero said:

It's pushing the idea that false religion has from the beginning fostered the idea of evolution because it's originator also believed the same (or

Satan can promote the idea pf evolution without believing it himself.  it is called propaganda.  He knew god existed but was rebellious and did not obey the creator

[xero]

4 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Satan can promote the idea pf evolution without believing it himself.  it is called propaganda.  He knew god existed but was rebellious and did not obey the creator

I understand that. Also knowing God existed is also not the point. If Satan imagined Jehovah himself was the product of the realm in which he was able to view him, like me being in a room or in a world with defined boundaries and I see someone and imagine that they didn't create the realm that we both reside in, but in point of fact simply was the first on the scene, then you'd be getting the point the author is getting at.

[TrueTomHarley]

57 minutes ago, xero said:

like me being in a room or in a world with defined boundaries and I see someone and imagine that they didn't create the realm that we both reside in, but in point of fact simply was the first on the scene, then you'd be getting the point the author is getting at.

Tinkering with the transistors that became the internet has been the source of much income for Al Gore and myself.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

God was grieved because he does not want any to die....

6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.”

According to this report in Genesis, situation described speaks differently. After, in NT, we see other sort of feelings and emotions for human.

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

You read to much in it - to call it a "state". ... it seems like you compare god to an overemotional female.

Do not forget how female was created in the image of God. So yes, perhaps it is not far away from your observation that sometimes God (has right to) react as "overemotional female" and Genesis 6:6,7 is exactly what was happened . :))

If He want to destroy fallen angels who materialized and their offspring of giants who made evil things, what was so difficult for Him to be selective in punishment? JW people have expectation how that will happen in Armageddon - selective destruction. And Noah Days are used as example of why and how God will act in Armageddon, but without water (flood). 

Initial rebellion started with "snake" aka devil. Continue with First People. At what stage were the other angels while this was happening, there is no record of it. It is not until Noah's day that angels who longed for earthly pleasures are described. Their action does not say that they rebelled against God in the way that the devil did. Their motives were different. They did not say that God was lying, as the serpent said. They did not promise anyone that they would be like gods. They didn't say how people will not dye if act independently from God. Their rebellion had different reasons. 

Perhaps what they saw happening in Eden and how satan goes unpunished for his insolence was an additional motive for them to indulge in illicit behavior as well. In fact, when the Bible says that evil multiplies because transgressors are not punished immediately, and that they therefore continue to do evil, then there is a great responsibility on God Himself who failed to punish the guilty who can be punished by none other than Him. For, it was not just about human hearts boiling to do evil, but about the hearts of angels. When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong - Eccl 8

[Pudgy]

 

.

.

How something is worded often contains subtle nuances and references, and sub-references that escape almost everyone, except those whose thinking is not agenda driven.

The problem is .... almost EVERYONES' thinking is agenda driven.

Without getting into George Carlin's famous comment about sticking a needle in your finger, consider the very real difference between these two phrases, being  "waiting to engage", and being "engaged to wait".

If you work for someone, and are on call 24/7/365. make sure that the phraseology is "engaged to wait", and not "waiting to engage".

It makes a difference as to whether or not you are due payment for your services.

In similar fashion, the nuances inherent in the way Scripture is phrased make a very real difference.

However, if your perception is agenda driven, you will always be wrong.

If you think you are a hammer ..... EVERYTHING looks like a nail.

..... and your theology and carpentry work will be crude, ugly, and unworkable.

[xero]

49 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

 

.

.

How something is worded often contains subtle nuances and references, and sub-references that escape almost everyone, except those whose thinking is not agenda driven.

The problem is .... almost EVERYONES' thinking is agenda driven.

Without getting into George Carlin's famous comment about sticking a needle in your finger, consider the very real difference between these two phrases, being  "waiting to engage", and being "engaged to wait".

If you work for someone, and are on call 24/7/365. make sure that the phraseology is "engaged to wait", and not "waiting to engage".

It makes a difference as to whether or not you are due payment for your services.

In similar fashion, the nuances inherent in the way Scripture is phrased make a very real difference.

However, if your perception is agenda driven, you will always be wrong.

If you think you are a hammer ..... EVERYTHING looks like a nail.

..... and your theology and carpentry work will be crude, ugly, and unworkable.

Some things are straightforward, but other things are a matter of interpretation. The thing that gets me is when someone acts like they have it all figured out. Nope.

[Arauna]

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

react as "overemotional female" and Genesis 6:6,

Women are imperfect and act on imperfect hormones.  God has regret..... but this is not as strong as repentance, remorse and the other emotions inbetween.  God does not make mistakes. Regret indicates that  human  actions made God  change his mind as to their future....... 

One can read your own emotions into the bible if it suits one. 

No doubt, God was very disappointed and all mankind justly deserved destruction. Because God is a God of life it was really regretful to have to do what justice required. ... to destroy.