"Seeing" Jehovah

[Guest]

Hope is like an anchor for the soul – so important for that anchor to be solid! 

Many who feel they have an earthly hope also desire to “see” Jehovah. Part of the difficulty is the misunderstanding of this verse:

 

“No man has seen God at any time.”

 

In what way did John mean “seen”?

John spoke figuratively quite a bit. He calls Jesus “the Word” and “the light’. He says God “is Love” and God “is light”.

Let John himself explain…”No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.”

John was talking about “seeing” Jehovah in all his heavenly glory, in heaven.

Jesus explains further: “And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. You have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his form.” 

Jesus had seen Jehovah’s “form” in heaven, all Jehovah’s glory; that’s why Jesus could really explain him. Just meeting the person of Jehovah for the first time or knowing the person of Jehovah for even one human lifetime isn’t the same as “seeing” and “knowing” Jehovah in all his heavenly glory the way Jesus has been with and seen and known Jehovah.

What about this scripture in a conversation between Jehovah and Moses: “No man may see me and live”?

“Then he [Moses] said: “Please show me your glory.”  But he said: “I will make all my goodness pass before your face, and I will declare before you the name of Jehovah; and I will favor the one whom I favor, and I will show mercy to the one to whom I show mercy.”  But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.” Jehovah said further: “Here is a place near me. Station yourself on the rock.  When my glory is passing by, I will place you in a crevice of the rock, and I will shield you with my hand until I have passed by.  After that I will take my hand away, and you will see my back. But my face may not be seen.””

When Jehovah said “my face may not be seen” here, he was talking as regards all his glory. Moses specifically asked to see “your glory”. We know Moses saw Jehovah’s “face” in a different way, not with all the glory, because the Bible is true.

 

“Jehovah spoke to Moses face-to-face, just as one man would speak to another man.”

 

And many other saw Jehovah’s "face", as recorded in the following:

 

“Jehovah faced him [Gideon] and said: “Go with the strength you have, and you will save Israel out of Midʹi·an’s hand. Is it not I who send you?” (Judges 6:14)

 

“Then she [Hagar] called on the name of Jehovah, who was speaking to her: “You are a God of sight,” for she said: “Have I here actually looked upon the one who sees me?”” (Genesis 16:13)

 

“Then I [Ezekiel] heard someone speaking to me out of the temple, and the man came and stood beside me.  He said to me: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet, where I will dwell among the people of Israel forever.” (Ezekiel 43:6,7)

 

“In turn Jacob inquired: “Tell me, please, your name.” However, he said: “Why is it that you ask my name?” With that he blessed him there.  So Jacob named the place Pe·niʹel, for he said, “I have seen God face-to-face, yet my life was preserved.”” (Genesis 22:29,30)

 

“Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God as he was walking in the garden about the breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife hid from the face of Jehovah God among the trees of the garden.” (Genesis 3:8)

 

“Afterward, Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees of Mamʹre while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day.  He looked up and saw three men standing some distance from him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground.  Then he said: “Jehovah, if I have found favor in your eyes, please do not pass by your servant.  Please, let a little water be brought and have your feet washed; then recline under the tree.  Seeing that you have come here to your servant, let me bring a piece of bread so that you may refresh yourselves. Then you may go on your way.” At this they said: “All right. You may do as you have spoken.” So Abraham hurried to the tent to Sarah and said: “Quick! Get three measures of fine flour, knead the dough, and make loaves of bread.”  Next Abraham ran to the herd and chose a tender and good young bull. He gave it to the attendant, who hurried to prepare it.  He then took butter and milk and the young bull that he had prepared and set the food before them. Then he stood by them under the tree as they were eating. They said to him: “Where is your wife Sarah?” He replied: “Here in the tent.”  So one of them continued: “I will surely return to you next year at this time, and look! your wife Sarah will have a son.” Now Sarah was listening at the tent entrance, which was behind the man.  Abraham and Sarah were old, being advanced in years. Sarah was past the age of childbearing.  So Sarah began to laugh to herself, saying: “After I am worn out and my lord is old, will I really have this pleasure?”  Then Jehovah said to Abraham: “Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Am I really going to give birth even though I am old?’  Is anything too extraordinary for Jehovah?”

 

So Jehovah ate with Abraham, right here on earth. Abraham, the one called “Jehovah’s friend”. (Also, Abraham is one of Jehovah’s earthly children.) Then what happened?

 

“When the men got up to leave and looked down toward Sodʹom, Abraham was walking with them to escort them.  Jehovah said: “Am I keeping hidden from Abraham what I am going to do?  Why, Abraham is surely going to become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed by means of him.  For I have come to know him in order that he may command his sons and his household after him to keep Jehovah’s way by doing what is right and just, so that Jehovah may bring about what he has promised concerning Abraham.” Then Jehovah said: “The outcry against Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah is indeed great, and their sin is very heavy.  I will go down to see whether they are acting according to the outcry that has reached me. And if not, I can get to know it.” Then the men left from there and went toward Sodʹom, but Jehovah remained with Abraham.”

 

There were three “men” who came to Abraham. (Man is made in God’s image. “Let us make them in our image.”) One “man” was Jehovah. The other two went down to Sodom and found Lot. Jehovah stayed behind to talk with Abraham for awhile. 

 

“Is anything to extraordinary for Jehovah?”

“I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be.”

“Our Father.”

 

Our Father can walk on the earth. He can eat with us here. He can talk with us here without us burning up. He can do anything. He’s Jehovah. (If you can video chat with someone, you are not really in person but it is your representation, why can't Jehovah do something like that?)

“No one has seen God at any time. If we continue loving one another, God remains in us and his love is made perfect in us.  By this we know that we are remaining in union with him and he in union with us, because he has given his spirit to us.  In addition, we ourselves have seen and are bearing witness that the Father has sent his Son as savior of the world.  Whoever acknowledges that Jesus is God’s Son, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God.  And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him.”

No man can see God in his entirety, His higher-than-the-heavensness. But can Jehovah materialize a body to use if He wants to? Jesus could. Jehovah can listen to all those prayers at the same time. Why couldn't He interact in person via a human body with different people at the same time? Nothing is impossible for Jehovah.

 

“Who is blind except my servant, So deaf as the messenger I send?  Who is so blind as the one rewarded, So blind as the servant of Jehovah?”

 

“At that time the eyes of the blind will be opened, And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped.”

 

All things are possible with God. In the Garden of Eden, Jehovah was Walking in the Garden. The man hid from Jehovah's Face. When it says in John that no man has seen the Father at anytime, it is talking figuratively about Seeing Jehovah as He really is in heaven. Jehovah is able to make a way for himself to enjoy the earth and his children on the earth in person. When Jacob was wrestling, after he asked the name of the one he was wrestling with, what was the answer he got, and what did he name that place? What did Hagar say after her interaction with "the One who sees me"? Jehovah is not partial. He is not only going to have personal face-to-face interactions with a certain "class" that goes to heaven. He is the Father of all his Children, both those whose abode is in heaven and those whose abode is on earth. There is a reason Jesus is called "Son of Man" and not just "Son of God". God made man in His image, because Jehovah is built that way too, and He can visit here and interact with his children here. He is Jehovah, "He Who Causes to Become" and "I Shall Become Whatsoever I Choose to Become". The city in the end of Ezekiel, that city that is on the earth in the future, is called Jehovah Himself Is There, and in Revelation 21:3,4 it says that Jehovah himself will wipe away every tear from out of their eyes. The "two sticks" will be joined together into one universal family with Jehovah as Father.

 

In what way are the anointed "elders" according to Revelation? Not in the sense of a clergy class. They are "elder brothers" in that they are "born again" first. The 144,000 are "older brothers" in that they are born as God's children when anointed with holy spirit. The anointed will get to see Jehovah when they go to heaven. God is not partial. The "younger" children of God will also get to see Jehovah and interact with him in person. The rest of faithful humankind is "born" completely as God's children at the end of the 1,000 year reign, when God becomes all things to all people and the family will truly be united at last.

 

Jehovah is Your Father. He is not far away from each one of us, and He wants you to know that you on earth will look into his eyes someday too. He is Our Father. Jehovah breathed the breath of life into Adam's nostrils here on earth. How close was Jehovah to Adam in order to do that? Adam will not be back, but Jesus took Adam's place as our Eternal Father. Jesus is not a deadbeat dad. He will interact with his earthly children during the 1,000 year reign and forever and when he turns the kingdom back to his Father at the end of the 1,000 year reign, when all humans on earth are perfect, then Jehovah will be all things to all people, meaning, He, Jehovah, will be walking in the garden with you too and you will see His face. How could the earthly Paradise be complete without Jehovah there? He is the Most Important Part. God is Love.

 

Praise Jah!

[Moise Racette]

It is very simple to see how the poster misunderstands not only scripture, but its interpretation of scripture. No human entity will ever see God in his glory or otherwise. A simple distinction by the error of the poster can be found in Exodus 33:20

[xero]

I can imagine Jehovah sticking his "hand" up a meat puppet and animating it and I can imagine him doing the same with a so-called spiritual body, but what it is that is Jehovah is always and forever beyond encompassing the understanding by any creature. We can get the fringes of his ways and we can have our senses filled as well, but we might as well be climbing on our roofs to get a closer look at the moon for "getting a better look at Jehovah".

[Guest]

Faith is not a possession of all people.

 

To those of you with faith, happy you are, because it is Jehovah who has enlightened your hearts, it is Jehovah who is drawing you. Continue following the Christ! "Let the little children come to me." Jehovah and Jesus will help you endure and be happy despite the persecution ahead.

 

"At that he said to them: “I see Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven.  Look! I have given you the authority to trample underfoot serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing at all will harm you.  Nevertheless, do not rejoice because the spirits are made subject to you, but rejoice because your names have been written in the heavens.”  In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved.  All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.”"

 

"Happy is the man who does not walk according to the advice of the wicked 

And does not stand on the path of sinners 

And does not sit in the seat of scoffers.  

But his delight is in the law of Jehovah, 

And he reads His law in an undertone day and night.  

He will be like a tree planted by streams of water, 

A tree that produces fruit in its season, 

The foliage of which does not wither.  

And everything he does will succeed. 

The wicked are not like that; 

They are like the chaff that the wind blows away. 

That is why the wicked will not remain standing in the judgment; 

Nor will sinners remain standing in the assembly of the righteous.  

For Jehovah is aware of the way of the righteous, 

But the way of the wicked will perish."

 

"Brothers, take as a pattern of the suffering of evil and the exercising of patience the prophets who spoke in the name of Jehovah.  Look! We consider happy those who have endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome Jehovah gave, that Jehovah is very tender in affection and merciful."

 

"Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, since the Kingdom of the heavens belongs to them. 

Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake.  

Rejoice and be overjoyed, since your reward is great in the heavens, for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to you. 

You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt loses its strength, how will its saltiness be restored? It is no longer usable for anything except to be thrown outside to be trampled on by men. 

You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when located on a mountain.  People light a lamp and set it, not under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it shines on all those in the house.  Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens."

 

"Happy is the man who keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life, which Jehovah promised to those who continue loving Him."

 

"If you are being reproached for the name of Christ, you are happy, because the spirit of glory, yes, the spirit of God, is resting upon you."

 

I will not speak with you anymore at present because of the naysayers. "But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness." "God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way,  because what may be known about God is clearly evident among them, for God made it clear to them.  For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable.  For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their senseless hearts became darkened.  Although claiming they were wise, they became foolish."

 

The time for the tribulation is near. For those who love God, the troubles will be momentary and light compared to the glory Jehovah has ahead for His beloved family.

 

May undeserved kindness and peace and mercy be upon all true children of the Lord!

 

Praise Jah!

[Arauna]

I feel for you that you would like to physically "see" Jehovah but unfortunately we do have our physical and spiritual limitations - especially that of imperfection. Also, the 144,000 (24 elders) are so in awe of Jehovah when in heaven that they fall down before Jehovah.  “And out of the throne there are proceeding lightnings and voices and thunders.” (Revelation 4:5a).  They will be so grateful just to be allowed in his presence.    

We are imperfect and cannot even speak to Jehovah directly without mediation through the ransom of Christ. The ransom was paid and covers anyone who lived before Christ as well.  Therefore Jesus was called the Word, as he was often the messenger between God and man... as well as between Moses and Jehovah. 

Acts 7: ⁵³  you who received the Law as transmitted by angelsv but have not kept it.” Galations 3: |"¹⁹  Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the offspring should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator.

This is an excerpt from a watchtower: "

Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Isaiah, Daniel, Jesus, Peter, John, and Paul are among those who were ministered to by angels. Righteous angels executed God’s judgments and transmitted prophecies and directions, including the Mosaic Law. (2 Ki. 19:35; Dan. 10:5, 11, 14; Acts 7:53; Rev. 1:1) Since we now have the complete Word of God, angels may not need to convey divine messages. (2 Tim. 3:16, 17) Behind the scenes, however, the angels are very busy carrying out God’s will and supporting his servants.

⁹ The Bible assures us: “The angel of Jehovah is camping all around those fearing him, and he rescues them.” (Ps. 34:7; 91:11) "

Jesus came to earth because Jehovah cannot die; and Jehovah is so "almighty: that he cannot enter into a physical universe - even if it is as big as ours. He is a Spirit person and the highest heavens cannot contain him. " 1kings8:27  “But will God really dwell on the earth?h Look! The heavens, yes, the heaven of the heavens, cannot contain you;i how much less, then, this house that I have built!j" 

Our earth is like a little speck of dust on His scale.   It is like trying to climb into a Chikwawa dogbox which you have made for a small little adult dog.   Jehovah uses his  dynamic and "projected" spirit to do his bidding.... or his ministering angels, all who function by his Spirit.  Jehovah's chariot is moving forward in any direction and between the four creatures and the wheels which are all full of eyes and there is something like lightnings going to and fro between then. As earthly creatures we just move with the chariot as Jehovah directs. 

BUT we can see Jehovah with eyes of faith - as if all his prophecies have already been fulfilled and we are so in awe of Him that we will just be happy to survive Armageddon- let alone feel that we have the right to literally see him. Paul said that flesh and blood cannot see God and live. 

Only those who have received the final seal, have died and resurrected with a heavenly body will have the opportunity to go into his presence/royal court.   ..... So many of the scriptures which are quoted were just quoted without context.......Not deeply scrutinized. 

[Moise Racette]

The poster (Prophet) brings enlightenment through the eyes of cynicism. Contrary to the works of Christ in HOPE. 

(Ecclesiastes 9:1-3) 9 So I took all of this to heart and concluded that the righteous and the wise, as well as their works, are in the hands of the true God. Men are not aware of the love and the hate that took place prior to them. 2 All have the very same outcome, the righteous and the wicked, the good and the clean and the unclean, those sacrificing and those not sacrificing. The good one is the same as the sinner; the one who swears an oath is the same as the one who is cautious about swearing an oath. 3 This is a distressing thing that happens under the sun: Because all have the same outcome, the heart of humans is also full of bad; and there is madness in their heart during their life, and then they die. . .

It is through repentance that we gain reasoning and wisdom to the words of God.

 

. 20 And after observing him closely, they sent men whom they had secretly hired to pretend that they were righteous in order to catch him in his speech, so as to turn him over to the government and to the authority of the governor. 21 And they questioned him, saying: “Teacher, we know you speak and teach correctly and show no partiality, but you teach the way of God in line with truth: 22 Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?” 23 But he detected their cunning and said to them: 24 “Show me a de·narʹi·us. Whose image and inscription does it have?” They said: “Caesar’s.” 25 He said to them: “By all means, then, pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar but God’s things to God.” 26 Well, they were not able to trap him in his speech before the people, but amazed at his answer, they became silent.
 

Darkness cannot overcome darkness.

[Moise Racette]

If the poster fails to understand the meaning of hope along with the readers, this might encourage that wisdom.

The Thessalonians’ Faith and Example

1 Thessalonians 1:2

3 remembering before four God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ
 

 

[Witness]

15 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

But can Jehovah materialize a body to use if He wants to? Jesus could. Jehovah can listen to all those prayers at the same time. Why couldn't He interact in person via a human body with different people at the same time? Nothing is impossible for Jehovah.

 

Jesus said in John 10:35a, “and you know that the Scriptures cannot be altered, or “broken”.  The Greek word there, actually means to "loosen, dissolve, put off”  and more. 

If we alter what we know about the image of God, when the Bible tells us that no man can look Him in the face and live; and that He is Spirit, whom we must worship in spirit and in truth, then we have both added and taken away from the word of God.  Deut 4:2  (Exod 33:18-23; John 4:24; John 1:18)

Prov 30:6 - Don’t add to his words,
or he will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar.

Our worship comes from our heart, where His Spirit can dwell.  Jer 24:7; John 14:23; Rom 8:9

For the faithful anointed in Christ, this is especially so, since they are the dwelling/Temple/tabernacle of God's Spirit.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 21:3,4

I really hope you don’t forget that Jesus, who was always God’s spokesperson as the Logos throughout the millennium, is how we come to see and know God.  John 14:6  He represented God to Abraham, and it was he that spoke for God in the Garden of Eden.   Even through the prophets, God's word was spoken as if it was He speaking directly to the nation of Israel.  

The scriptures about God cannot contradict one another, by saying he appeared to Abraham, yet no man can look on the face of God and live.  Jesus is the Word of God – he spoke for God who is Spirit.  Even when Moses saw God “face to face”, it was spiritual, not physical, because God is Spirit.  John 4:24

John 1:14 - The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. We observed his glory, the glory as the one and only Sonfrom the Father, full of grace and truth.

Col 1:15-17- He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For everything was created by him,
in heaven and on earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or dominions
or rulers or authorities—
all things have been created through him and for him.
¹⁷ He is before all things,
and by him all things hold together.

John 8:19 - Then they asked him, “Where is your Father?” “You know neither me nor my Father,” Jesus answered. “If you knew me, you would also know my Father.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Moise Racette]

32 minutes ago, Witness said:

Jesus said in John 10:35a, “and you know that the Scriptures cannot be altered, or “broken”.  The Greek word there, actually means to "loosen, dissolve, put off”  and more. 

If we alter what we know about the image of God, when the Bible tells us that no man can look Him in the face and live; and that He is Spirit, whom we must worship in spirit and in truth, then we have both added and taken away from the word of God.  Deut 4:2  (Exod 33:18-23; John 4:24; John 1:18)

Prov 30:6 - Don’t add to his words,
or he will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar.

It is good to see your efforts to correct apostate ideology. I will agree with this part of the post. Now if this poster can affirm its own suggestion, then perhaps a good biblical discussion can be had. 

[xero]

BTW a "discussion" has the idea of a give and take. It implies the willingness of those involved to alter their position. It suggests that the topic under "discussion" isn't settled in the minds of those "discussing" and a seeking after the truth in the process all the while not claiming to have laid hold on it yet.

 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Nothing is impossible for Jehovah.

Yes - but are you now making Jehovah into a kind of angel that can materialize? .....with human desires who wants to mix with humans..... like the wicked angels did?  The bible itself says the highest heavens cannot contain Jehovah.... I quoted the scripture above.  

Jehovah came down to see what was going on in Sodom and Gomorra. read the history in the bible.  He can send his Spirit everywhere - he does not need to materialize. He can interact with us as I showed you above - and when we are perfect he ill come and speak to us like he did with Adam.

Jehovah is so great that he keeps the universe from falling into chaos and keeps it working with his spirit / energy.  If he takes his spirit away the universe will collapse.... so how can he make himself small to come here?  You are giving Jehovah limitations ...... which he cannot have or does not wish to have.  You are taking away from his glory.

In any case we cannot put Jesus on par with Jehovah - he is merely a creation of jehovah and it was jehovah who emptied him to come to earth and be born as a human.  Jesus also did not materialize to be born here.  His life was taken from heaven and put in the womb of Mary so he could be completely human and grow from a baby to adulthood. 

Jehovah cannot die and he cannot come in a human body.  But his first-born son can do this.  This is why Jehovah asked him to come and willingly sacrifice his life in loyalty.

 

[xero]

@AraunaYou're right w/all you said above. My response to any of the "Nothing is Impossible for Jehovah" is rather all things that are possible, Jehovah can accomplish. It is not possible for Jehovah to make a square circle, because a circle is by definition not square. With regard to his "existence" in 3D land, Jehovah could animate a being to do and say what he would have him do or say (like Balaam or his ass) but he could never truncate his existence so as to be encapsulated by the kind of existence we humans experience.