Jump to content
The World News Media

Women must not instruct men, even by singing a theocratic song.


Jack Ryan

Recommended Posts

  • Member

Regarding a change to a song title, the study article on page 7 paragraph 17 of November 2017 Watchtower explained, “The change of the title “Guard Your Heart” to “We Guard Our Hearts” was most considerate. Why? In the audience at our meetings, assemblies, and conventions are many new ones, interested ones, young ones, and sisters who by singing the words would be put in the awkward position of telling others what to do. So the title and the lyrics were modified.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 3.1k
  • Replies 35
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Sometimes things are so insane that you think someone is repeating a Parody off of "The Onion" .... but then you realize .... these folks are dead serious.

It’s okay.  Your comments made me think of myself and my own experiences.  I take it all in stride now.  Thanks for sharing!!!  ... now my problem is makeup.  LOLOLOLOL #itsgoodtolaugh

I can imagine a situation where it was a sister's fault that the entire songbook had to be updated again. And, although it's pure speculation, it wouldn't be the first time something like this happene

Posted Images

  • Member

WT P.17 SIMPLIFIED

Why? Because before, when a person sang the words of this song, he was telling others what to do. This could be awkward for new ones, interested ones, young ones, and sisters who are at our meetings, assemblies, and conventions. So the title and the lyrics were changed.

WT P.17 STANDARD

Why? In the audience at our meetings, assemblies, and conventions are many new ones, interested ones, young ones, and sisters who by singing the words would be put in the awkward position of telling others what to do. So the title and the lyrics were modified.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Back in the day... I used to be a ‘letter of the law’ kinda gal.  One day, someone had problems with my braids.  They spoke to my ‘head’ at the time and I took the braids out on my way home from the meeting.  I looked at the scripture referenced- 1Pet. 3:3.  I decided I’d go to the next meeting naked.   Well, almost. I’d be wearing shoes.  I started heading to the door and my husband looked at me like I was crazy.  Before he parted his lips, I said, ‘I’m following the scriptures.  That’s what you wanted right? Do not let the your adornment be... the wearing of... outer garments.’  I’m safe now since the new translation says, ‘...fine clothing’. But  I do alright if you ask me. My second hand clothing is mighty fine.  Mighty fine! 

?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

In general, it is a good thing not to tell others what to do. I see no problem in re-wording a song to avoid giving that impression.

The article is not  endorsing that view. It is merely acknowledging some people would have it. And some would. Many cultures are that way. Some Witnesses would feel that way.  And some backgounds - almost to the person they would feel that way. Take, for example, a woman from a Muslim background. Imagine how comfortable she would be singing out instructions for her husband to follow.

The article first of all mentions "new ones" and "interested ones" we are considerate of. Why would anyone ridicule consideration?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Why would anyone ridicule consideration?

@TrueTomHarley I agree.  My own situation was a bit different.  Being that I lived in a predominately African American community with modesty being of great concern to me (as it was not my dress but hair) it NOW seems laughable.  Modest braids are on WT and AWAKE! covers and they are beautiful.   Sisters are now participating on Assemblies with modest ‘sisterlocks’! Yes- dreadlocks! Brothers wearing beards. ?Things have changed and a focus is on the inner not the outter.  I adjusted ofcourse ... but I also know that I should have been considered too.  It is well.  I follow the chariot wherever it goes. 

P.S.  I pay close attention when singing to prevent me from belting out the wrong words to ‘old songs’ I think I know.  ??‍♀️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Sharon:

I love that "outer garments" story.

I have found that to cater to the borderline inane and clueless never works with discussion. 

It's like the old story of the talking mule that never talked when the farmer wanted to show guests he had a talking mule .... a section of 2"x4" lumber across the head gets 'em talking.

I don't mind following the chariot ... wherever it goes, but I am apprehensive about  following the circus clown car.

There is a difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The article first of all mentions "new ones" and "interested ones" we are considerate of. Why would anyone ridicule consideration?

This could not merely be about being considerate of the new ones or interested ones. It appears to be more about being considerate to the 'rest of us' who might feel offended being told what to do by a 'new one.' It's pretty much the opposite of what Jesus said about 'out of the mouths of babes.'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
2 hours ago, Sharon Washington said:

My own situation was a bit different

You were not the one I had in mind, and I frankly think we overdo it on personal neat-as-a-pin dress and grooming. But that is how it is with any group of people. Not everything goes your way and one simply must avoid being the bull in the china shop.

At times in my life I have been a little bit 'out there' in terms of grooming, yet I have never once had anyone call it to my attention, and I have enjoyed a few priviledges.  You may like the following story: one such time my wife and I came to a packed assembly hall where a branch committee brother was the speaker. He gave a very hard-hitting talk - the blunt sort with observations that would not appear in print, and if he had adopted the same tone as to dress and grooming, he could have pointed to me as Exhibit A. I was well overdue for a haircut and whenever that happens I will run product through my hair and sweep it back once with my fingers - I get freebee haircuts from a relative but sometimes I must wait for him to fit me in and neither he nor I get around to it.

Because we arrived down to the wire, if not slightly over it, the attendants put us in one of the few seats available - up front and directly in front of the branch brother. I didn't particularly want to speak with him - I am not one of those who goes for selfies with the speaker - but after prayer I turned about and I was face to face with him. So I said some genuine pleasantry, thanking him for coming and such, and he said "I wasn't too hard on you folks, was I?"

"We'll adjust," I told him.

2 hours ago, Sharon Washington said:

P.S.  I pay close attention when singing to prevent me from belting out the wrong words to ‘old songs’ I think I know.

You are a better person than I am.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

In general, it is a good thing not to tell others what to do. I see no problem in re-wording a song to avoid giving that impression.

The article is not  endorsing that view. It is merely acknowledging some people would have it. And some would. Many cultures are that way. Some Witnesses would feel that way.  And some backgounds - almost to the person they would feel that way. Take, for example, a woman from a Muslim background. Imagine how comfortable she would be singing out instructions for her husband to follow.

The article first of all mentions "new ones" and "interested ones" we are considerate of. Why would anyone ridicule consideration?

I must admit I found that paragraph strange. I raised the issue at the table (we had hospitality for our friend who gave the talk, his wife and in laws were also with us, the other in law being an elder too) and everyone didn't get why this particular song was included either. I mean what about the song "listen obey and be blessed"? And other songs which also tell people what to do. It was just very odd, and I wondered why this issue was even raised. (some of your ideas may be valid, but why make a point of it this way in the paragraph, it almost makes me want to write to Bethel and ask for the "real" reason behind it. But it's not important) My husband had a good point as well. He said he's never known in his life any sister to be bothered about telling people what to do. Everyone cracked up and agreed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Sudden weight gain or loss can be caused by various factors, some of which may indicate underlying health issues. Here are common causes for each: Visit this this site for more knowledgeable information https://phcworld.com/category/fitness/ Causes of Sudden Weight Gain: Fluid Retention (Edema): Caused by conditions like kidney disease, heart failure, or liver disease, leading to swelling in the body. Hypothyroidism: An underactive thyroid can slow metabolism, causing weight gain even without changes in diet or activity. Medication Side Effects: Certain drugs like steroids, antidepressants, or birth control can lead to rapid weight gain. Cushing's Syndrome: Excess cortisol production can cause fat accumulation, particularly in the abdomen, face, and upper back. Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS): Hormonal imbalances related to PCOS can cause weight gain, particularly around the waist. Emotional Eating or Stress: Stress and emotional eating can lead to overeating and weight gain, especially from high-calorie comfort foods. Menopause: Hormonal changes during menopause can lead to weight gain, particularly around the abdomen. Causes of Sudden Weight Loss: Hyperthyroidism: An overactive thyroid increases metabolism, leading to unexplained weight loss despite a normal or increased appetite. Diabetes: Uncontrolled diabetes can cause weight loss due to the body breaking down fat and muscle for energy. Cancer: Certain types of cancer, particularly in the digestive tract, may cause rapid weight loss. Gastrointestinal Disorders: Conditions like Crohn's disease, celiac disease, or IBS may affect nutrient absorption, leading to weight loss. Depression or Anxiety: Mental health conditions can reduce appetite, leading to unintentional weight loss. Chronic Infections: Tuberculosis, HIV, or other chronic infections can lead to significant weight loss as the body fights the infection. Medication Side Effects: Some drugs, such as chemotherapy or certain antidepressants, can cause weight loss as a side effect. If sudden, unexplained weight changes occur, it's important to consult a healthcare professional for proper diagnosis and treatment.
    • Yes, a balanced diet is crucial for maintaining good health. It provides the necessary nutrients, vitamins, and minerals that your body needs to function optimally. A diet rich in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins, and healthy fats can help improve energy levels, support immune function, and reduce the risk of chronic diseases such as heart disease, diabetes, and obesity. Eating a variety of nutrient-dense foods also supports mental well-being and overall vitality. In contrast, poor dietary choices, such as excessive consumption of processed foods, sugars, and unhealthy fats, can lead to health issues and imbalance. Therefore, making mindful and balanced food choices is fundamental for long-term health and well-being. What are the key components of a balanced diet?
    • Eating healthy food is essential for maintaining overall well-being and supporting a balanced lifestyle. For more info about healthy food visit https://phcworld.com/category/healthy-habits/  Incorporating a variety of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins, and healthy fats into your diet can help improve energy levels, boost immunity, and enhance mental clarity. It’s also important to stay hydrated and limit the intake of processed foods, sugars, and unhealthy fats. Making mindful food choices and establishing a balanced eating routine can lead to long-term health benefits and a more vibrant life. Whats your favourite food ?
    • Should Christians place greater trust in human-created philosophies or should a genuine Christian ground their desires from the scriptural perspective on the frailties of the mind and body? Psychology often falls short when it clashes with personal beliefs, regardless of the intentions behind it. James 1:14, Romans 12: 2 It also acts as a guide to clarify misconceptions, such as labeling "shunning" as an evil act rather than recognizing it as a corrective measure or a personal choice. This suggests a misunderstanding on the part of experts, more so than scholars, regarding psychological matters. The forum is structured around Christian ethics.
    • https://phcworld.com/category/health-and-wellness/ The Dendera Zodiac is a fascinating ancient Egyptian artifact that holds significant historical and astronomical value. Discovered in the Hathor Temple at Dendera, it is a carved bas-relief dating back to the Roman period of Egypt, around 50 BCE. This intricate depiction of the night sky features a circular representation of constellations and celestial bodies, showcasing the ancient Egyptians' advanced understanding of astronomy. The Dendera Zodiac is notable for its detailed depiction of zodiac signs, including Aries, Taurus, Gemini, and others. It also includes images of deities and mythological figures associated with these constellations. The artifact offers valuable insights into how the ancient Egyptians viewed the cosmos and how they integrated their religious and mythological beliefs with their understanding of the stars. Despite its importance, the Dendera Zodiac has been the subject of various interpretations and theories regarding its exact purpose and symbolism. Its rich artistry and complex design continue to captivate scholars and enthusiasts alike, making it a key piece in the study of ancient Egyptian science and religion.
  • Members

  • Recent Status Updates

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.5k
    • Total Posts
      159.1k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,744
    • Most Online
      1,797

    Newest Member
    Kazadi kasombola
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.