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Now, Rick Fearon, be it a JW, former, or not even that religious, it is known to many that Fearon is someone one should not be supporting an or even alluding to support anything of which he says. The man is known as a fraud by many, and often times even deemed crazy, even by his own blood.

I will just shed a small light on why some bring up weapon bunkers, poisons the whole wedding ring thing, but this is but small fragments of information of which I had saved from 3 years ago.

Since originally we are speaking of Rick Fearon, I will get to Pearl another time, the claims of guns being stockpiled was brought up by a Fearon Follower (I blank out the names for reasons), who is also a disgruntled former JW who was in an argument with an Israeli Christian, and later on a Hardcore Christian. There was an actual marine in the discussion but the Fearon Supporter wiped out the discussion, with one EXJw being seen saying she wish death on others and wants blood of JWs, and made the same remark of those who were killed in the Manchester Bombing, this person also being a Fearon Support and a former JW.

Clearly the disgruntled one is very ignorant and hate filled. After being refuted several times, this person deleted several of her comments and resort to insult, even to mocking the name of the Hardcore Christian who's name was of someone who died on 9/11, as well as her racist remarks to the Israeli Christian who also was in debate with her, even before this one she had stated Rick made it known that all JW churches have weapon bunkers under them, as well as the mention of poisons, something of which the JW opponents spoke of time and time again.

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This same user, continues to speak in support of Rick Fearon, making the claim that no one is seeing this man as a fraud and or in error, as seen here:

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More claims made by this person, but this time to the Hardcore Christian, for this person is not a fan of Rick Fearon, but the follower of Fearon continues, she makes claim that the person, who made the comment in the below image is a support of Fearon, but we see for ourselves that the person of whom she speaks of, a well known former member, is clearly against Fearon:

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But in the next image, we see that one of the well known former JWs made this comment:

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Also it is safe to mention she also accused the Hardcore Christian of stealing a picture from JW opponents, the picture in question is a free use image to the public, default art.

Furthermore, it is clear that there is a fallout among even the former members who are on a constant attack on this faith and only this faith alone, for this person in question does not shy away from Trinity believing versions of JWs known as SDAs (addressing the person who made the comment above). So that in itself is hypocrisy, and moreover, we can see that shows that people do not support Rick Fearon, they do not mention him, they do not speak of him, whatsoever.

Even the  Atheists make mention of Fearon, in a negative light, they also make mention of what I had addressed previously of what Fearon's original plan is all about:

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Even to this day, the views are still there, even by a relative of Rick Fearon who is of relation says the same about Rick Fearon himself, thus keeping his connection to Rick hidden, but only once made the mention of being related to this man.

Now let us go to the Fearon supporter's view on wedding rings. She spoke strongly about Rick's view on this matter and had this to day to the Hardcore Christian, moreover, the Fearon follower is twisting the words of the Hardcore Christian who defended wedding rings because Fearon said otherwise:

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This is what the Hardcore Christian had to say vs. the Fearon claim regarding Wedding Rings:

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First PART  is regarding symbolism, second regarding a bit of bible and historic explanation. Read carefully.

Your comments: (if you don't mind I am using your comments on a Christian forum, all of them because it is something to discuss. You, an idiot of a woman who follows Rick Fearon clearly do not know anything, perhaps you had fallen from the bosom of your mother as a child, thus the way you are now)

 

Now regarding my findings on weddings dresses and rings (bands), Wedding rings symbolized many things in the different cultures that have used them throughout the history. Some cultures and or traditions indicate that a man placing a ring on the finger of a woman reflects as proof that he the woman is for the man and the man is for the woman, hence the verse being yoked together, Matthew 19:4-6.  To some Christian denominations as well as Catholics and the like; in one symbolism to some:  Old traditions follow this form of symbolism of the ring on the left hand being > The Thumb means in “the name of The Father”, Index means “in the name of Jesus Christ (The Son)”, Middle means “In The Holy Spirit” and finally the 4th also known as the ring finger is “Amen” (check sources).  It is actually an Old school Christian based ceremony practice by most Trinitarians of different Christian denominations, rarely followed by Non-Trinitarians of other denominations.

Sources:

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/09/the-origin-of-wedding-rings-and-why-theyre-worn-on-the-4th-finger-of-the-left-hand/

Min’s explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPQ031rIpTI&t=0s

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-wedding-rings.html

https://lifehopeandtruth.com/relationships/marriage/what-is-marriage/history-of-wedding-rings/

http://www.biblestudy.org/question/are-wedding-rings-biblical-what-do-they-symbolize.html

 

As for the wedding dress, the sexual pagan originate with what you stated in your comment has no backing. White in general represents purity, cleanliness, joy and several other meanings, which can be found biblically, (Daniel 7:9, Matthew 17:2, Mark 9:3, Luke 9:29, Revelation 1:12 - 14, 6:11, 19:8, 20:11) or pretending to be so (Revelation 6:2), or made pure (Daniel 11:35, 12:10, Psalm 51:7, Isaiah 1:18, Revelation 3:18, 7:9, 13 - 14). It also symbolizes wisdom (Revelation 1:14), holiness or dedication to God (2Chronicles 5:12, Mark 16:5, John 20:12, Acts 1:10, Revelation 4:4, 19:14) or joy (Ecclesiastes 9:8). As for dressing, women must dress modestly as 1 Timothy 2:9 reads: In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; (KJV). Dressing modest also applies to men.

 

Sources:

http://www.biblestudy.org/bible-study-by-topic/meaning-of-colors-in-the-bible/meaning-of-color-white.html

https://www.openbible.info/topics/dress

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/The-Brides-Wedding-Dress

Note: Culture and Tradition plays many factors into Weddings. Weddings only cross the line of paganism if such practices as throwing rice, Wiccan, Asatru, hand fasting, Celtic, black massing, Druidism, Nudity, sexual misconduct, etc. Gay marriage also falls in this category. Sources of what pagan weddings look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAyBlSaqjLM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYUJYGUOJWw

Other sources: http://offbeatbride.com/pagan-weddings/

Perhaps your claims about the wedding dress and rings contrast with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_wedding

Conclusion: Is Wedding Rings or the gown pagan? No. Can a Wedding be pagan? Yes, if steps taken from paganism is added into a wedding ceremony. Key is simplicity.

You and everyone else who follows Rick Fearon are fools and spawns of the Devil. At this point, you make the JWs look like heroes, Batman and Superman like.

 

::::Biblical/Historic Explanation::::

 

Abraham’s servant found Rebekah, he gave her a nose ring to claim her as Isaac’s bride (Genesis 24:22)! When Tamar disguised herself as a harlot to entice her father-in-law, Judah, she asked him for his signet, cord, and staff as a pledge of his promise to send her "a kid from the flock" (Genesis 38:17-19). Jeremiah informs us that the Israelites wore the signet ring on the right hand (Jeremiah 22:24). The signet ring was used to seal various contracts. It was a symbol of authority, dignity, and social status (James 2:2). Pharaoh gave his signet ring to Joseph as a symbol of authority (Genesis 41:42). Likewise, Ahasuerus gave his signet to Haman to seal a royal decree (Esther 3:10, 12). Upon his return, the prodigal son received a ring from his father as a symbol of dignity and restored position (Luke 15:22). The finger rings mentioned in the Bible are signet rings used as symbols of authority and dignity. The Romans are credited for pioneering the use of the signet ring as a betrothal ring. The Jews and the Christians borrowed the practice from the Romans. Since the betrothal ceremony usually involved the groom giving a sum of money or a valuable object to the bride, it was a natural transition to make this object a ring. The wedding or marriage ring came into use in Christian ceremonies in the 9th century AD. The custom of wearing the wedding ring on the fourth finger of the left hand is based upon a romantic, although unscientific, Greek fable that the artery from that finger flows directly to the heart. However and whenever the custom of the wedding band developed, it is seen today as a symbol of an unending commitment to the marriage relationship. As such, it certainly has a biblical basis in that marriage is to be a lifetime commitment (Romans 7:2). This is not to say that wearing a wedding ring is a requirement for married Christians. But wedding rings are a beautiful reminder of the marriage covenant and, by extension, the covenant of Christ with His bride—the redeemed for whom He died.

 

Other: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_at_Cana

 

This same person, the Hardcore Christian, also debated another claim by the one who speaks on and supports Rick Fearon regarding JWs and Nationalism:

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Did you even read the list you provided? For the Gobitis and Burnette cases about Jehovah's Witnesses and the First Amendment Clause (Exercise and Free Speech Clause), there was only 2 Episcopal Jurist present, only one of them was Chief Justice for the Burnette case (In the Gobitis case it was a Baptist as Chief Justice). Only later on did Justice Robert Jackson became involved. Your first claim was that ALL Lawyers and Scholars were Jewish look at your comment.

*First*, not all of them them were Jewish, as my comment shows you there were 2 Jurist at the time, only one of them was involved with the case of Jehovah's Witnesses families (Gobitis and the Burnetts) at the time (not the Watchtower). The Jewish Jurist present for both was Felix Frankfurter. The other being Louis Brandeis, who was dealing with other cases and had teamed up with those involved in the Gobitis/Burnette cases.

*Second*, not ALL of them were Episcopalian. The only 3 involved in the case was Harlan F. Stone and Owen J. Roberts. Robert Jackson, who was new, was replacement Justice for the Burnette case.

*Third*, yes none of the Jurist or Lawyers were Jehovah's Witnesses (nor were they Scholars in their own merit), you stated before that Most of the Jurist were Jewish Scholars and that not only they sided with the Jehovah's Witnesses, they became Jehovah's Witnesses after feeling some sympathy for them. You stated in your comment "You Heard Watchtower spin so and so..." when the reality is, Jehovah's Witnesses are not patriotic, they're not Nationalist who take sides, they are politically neutral (hence why they are always attacked), however when it comes to court cases and the like, they are known for defending themselves regardless of winning or losing a case. If the Gobitis Family never stood up, Freedom of Speech and or to Exercise Faith would not be part of the First Amendment, as the many claims in the past as stated. Without it, you wouldn't be talking about JWs or anything for that matter, thus why many (who agree or disagree with the JWs) thank them for such cases in the 1940s even to this day (be it media or school projects, etc.) Other_sourceshttp://www.historynet.com/what-we-owe-jehovahs-witnesses.htm

 

Fourth (regarding isreals laws): Americans have Bill of Rights hence the Amendments, People living in Israel do not have Bill of Rights, they have "Basic Laws of Israel" :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Laws_of_Israel

Truth, yes the number one religion of the Supreme Court Justices, is Episcopalian, however, in both cases: For Gobitis it was Baptist Charles E. Huges while in the Burnette case, it was Harlan F. Stone.'

Geez, I guess everyone who leaves JWs and become an apostate is as stupid as drunk man sitting on a TV watching his couch.

In doing so he put an end to this Fearon Supporters constant lying and the fact one can tell she is lying is when she throws insults and accusations.

My next response about Rick Fearon would be his connection with Byron Brown, and all facts and information is accurate, in order to bring forth His plans regarding converts, and  more information about him in recent times.

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21 minutes ago, AllenSmith34 said:

It wouldn't be surprising, former witnesses would attempt to use the Watchtower name for their personal gain. I believe simple comparison about the vast amount of the Watchtower literature that is subjectively misrepresented, would be an indicator for, how far people are willing to go.

The “only” weapon the Watchtower needs? Is fully disclosed to the public. God’s word!

As for investments that are made in, belief, of the Watchtower, an economist that is acquainted with the Watchtower portfolio would make it aware to the Watchtower if an investment is “joined” (tethered) to a questionable stock.

However, what is “more” surprising? What people do accept as fact, and would continue with that misrepresentation, especially when the information comes from questionable sites. Therefore, I would ask, where is the same amount of assessment, and under the microscope analyzes, for other religious organizations with their tax returns?

Yes, and it has been going on for years now, the fact that Rick Fearon has been mentioned only adds more fuel to the fire due to how everyone views Fearon, in addition to those who support and or alluded to whatever he says. If his own blood deem him as crazy, that should tell you something. I myself had a run in with those in support of anything Fearon says and it was not fun at all, but very aggravating to deal with such ones. Former members of Jehovah's Witnesses, those who are neutral and actually fight against the lies people make about the faith, often have to clash with former members who show a total disdain for the faith itself, which was the case with the whole stocks and bonds information of which people tend to spread conspiracy of, only for those who knows the information far better than the conspiracy spreaders, putting the truth into the light, which was successfully done regarding the Riley Trust and anything in connection of it, the same can be said about those saying the JWs have military connection when it is known JWs wouldn't even submit to nationalism, and or join the Navy, so the Navy contract claims are false. As for the tax return thing, it was brought up by a man named Jason Zelda, to which people have called out about his twisting of information regarding tax returns.

Other than that, it is always a constant war-zone when it comes to stuff like this, and some, even when proven wrong still rely on the falsehood information, some even now rely on such and claim it as truth, when the real truth that debunked everything has been made known years before and known by everyone.

Yes, JWs only use God's Word, the claim that JWs harbor weapons, poisons and other devices of destruction under their churches, be it in Warwick, to Pennsylvania, all the way to the Congo is unfounded. Churches that harbor weapons or the like are known as Christian Terrorist, such as Christian Militants, who also train children for combat and or the KKK, the modern day Crusaders, and several others, an example would be, a pastor, some years ago, took a gun out of fake bible to shoot an angry husband, for his wife had committed adultery with the pastor, who shot the husband during service in front of a crowd, for it is that crazy out there.

Since JWs are not of the mainstream Christendom and the fact they are Restorationist, there is 0% chance that they would have a stockpile of weapons and poisons, of which JW opponents make the claim they will soon distribute poisons to their members, the irony of it all is a JW opponent riddled an empty JW church with bullets from an assault rifle, the response and reaction from JWs was not of fighting fire with fire, pulling an AR-15 to seek out the culprit, no, they were concerned and very passive, as well as being aware of how people treat them, those who have a total disdain for them.

That is also true, that is why I was able to spot the 2 links that Witness posted as the top Google searched links, these same links are used time and time again to further make proof to a claim proven false many times in the past.

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@Srecko Sostar 

  • [1] This video does not reveal JWs being at and or in sponsorship of sporting/business event, granted that majority of the world knows of what Glasgow area is all about, mind you, the reporter spoke of events that took place AFTER the games, what has been listed are those who simply come to use the venues, example would be MTV, they rented out said venue, JWs did the same. The only thing they got wrong is to say JWs were talking about sports injuries, when actual sources say JWs were preaching and inviting people to said venue, of which their convention is being held.
  • [2] The News media itself was on BBC, the original video in full was about 5 minutes. You really have to dig deep by going back in time, not literal for it is neigh impossible, to find such, but majority is you will find a stockpile of articles on said event in 2014.
  • [3] It is wise to pay very close attention to what these men, Blair MacNAB, Pro. Joe Goldblatt, and Scott Taylor had said in the video, surprisingly they didn’t cut this out. They speak of those being attracted to Glasgow from the Business aspect of things, as well as other things to start a business, in regards to JWs, they were there for preaching and the convention, granted this was not their first time in Glasgow, hence the sources and the very fact that JWs have a presence in the area from the get go.
  • [4] It is unfounded that JWs are selling products, mainly if you understood everything that went down that year.
  • [5] I mean if the Watchtower was reaching out to Scottish ones speaking Gaelic, there is no question that they, as do many JWs know of where conventions are being held or anyone of their faith community being present in Glasgow, granted that the convention not only consist of local Glasgow JWs, but visitors as well as guests from both in and out of Glasgow, perhaps outside of EU. All JWs tend to know where a convention is being held, mainly due to the website of their faith making mention of convention dates and the like as well as location; they tend to hold conventions all over the UK, even in Glasgow and it is not the first, nor will it be the last.
  • [6] The real question is are you accepting a lie of which a former JW is telling you, granted even the video itself and the information out there defeats the whole idea of JWs being part of a sporting event when they themselves are not listed as sports, but listed as those coming to Glasgow to do what they do? There is a reason as to why there are missing comments on that video, anyone putting down facts on the matter gets wiped out, luckily, the one who posted the short video, not even bothering to add the full one, cannot remove the facts here.
  • [7] The activities were merely preaching and inviting, even the sources says that. Clearly if they preached and invited during an event, not many people will be worrying about religion, but more about sports. That is like trying to put a movie you made out for the first time on the same date a Marvel movie is to be released, you’ll have little people going to see your movie because of the Marvel movie, therefore, the best idea was to release said movie not on the same day of a movie that everyone suddenly changes into a little fan boy and girl children to – just does not make sense, at the same time, shows a lack of common sense with such an approach, for no one is going to pay attention to God when sporting events, important to said area, is ongoing.

And lastly

  • [8] You posted this before, back in December of 2017, I had not notice it until I searched it. You stated the following in title: JWorg attracted thousands of people and millions of pounds to Scotland on XX Commonwealth Games, Glasgow 2014.

 

The truth of the matter is, yes JWs did attract thousands, in the 9,000s, but nowhere did they make millions of dollars/pounds in currency from inviting people to a convention being held at a venue of which they had rented. Another fact is you made the claim that, even alluded in your title this took place during the Commonwealth Games 2014 in Glasgow, which was also held at the venue (2 events cannot take place in a single venue), but the video stated that the games had ended and the JW convention, along with others after them, took place nearly 2 weeks AFTER the games since the sporting event was no longer use the venue in question. So why did you say this before when the video defeats your claim and the claims made by former JWs who cut the video as well as deleted all facts posted by those who understood? The millions of pounds of which you had mention, is unfounded. And to say they are part of the world when you yourself didn’t even double check the information, holds no foundation, friend.

Now, onward to the information and facts.

Actually the only mention of the Jehovah’s Witnesses (called Bible Students by the news media) was that they were listed among those who have a presence in Glasgow after the multi-sporting events have concluded, which resulted (from the sporting event of course) the high interest of Glasgow for all to come and spend their dollar there, for Glasgow is good for business, some using the venues with high availability for use, but such is not cheap to rent out depending on how large and the length of the event hosted by the buyer, like The SSE Hydro, granted there are about 9,000+ (max capacity being 13,000+) JWs with guests included, who all gathered at The SSE (Scottish Exhibition Centre) Hydro in Glasgow, specifically those who originate from Gaelic (Gaels). They were not there to speak of sports injuries as the news media claim, rather, they were preaching in the area, also inviting people to their usual 3 day conventions, since they did spend money to rent the venue, that took places days (18 to 20 days) after the Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games (July 23, 2014 – August 3, 2014) for their convention took place around the August 23, 2014 (most likely the 22 to the 24th due to the it being Friday to Sunday).

The video also goes on to say (oddly enough the full 5 minute video of this news media is not present) that after the sporting, Glasgow venues have taken the attention of many people, this also includes the likes of MTV, who spent money to rent out the venues, and also the Jehovah’s Witnesses, for it is not unknown to anyone, even the members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, that they, as do others, rent out venues and or buildings for religious purpose (last I checked they do not have 3 day conventions discussing sports injuries, let alone preach it), the same can be said of them renting out sports Stadiums to hold religious events – again, such things, mainly venues at that size, costs money, mainly if the capacity is at 13,000+. Furthermore, prior to their 3 day convention, they go out and preach as well as invite, hence why the venue rented out by JWs mange to fit more than 9,000 persons consisting of Scottish JWs, visitors and guests all meeting up at the SSE Hydro venue in Glasgow for 3 days.

I do not see how renting out an event makes them part of the world, so the claim is very weak in this sense, mainly if you listened carefully of what is said in the whole video, perhaps it is best to seek out the actually video itself which is somewhat a bit longer on bbc news uk.

It is also good to add that, the money spent on the venue for use goes to the owners of said venues, thus they, owning that place, make the profit, not the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Moreover, as done elsewhere on how they get their funds, Jehovah’s Witnesses still have a focus on donations to help further the Great Commission command, helping their members, making more books, etc. that money itself, being donated, does not go to the owner of the venues, but to the Watchtower itself.

So the claim to say that Jehovah’s Witnesses are part of the world and speak of them taking part in a sporting event when no shred of information or sponsorship of their presence is known, the only thing known is the presence they have after the events in preaching and inviting people to come to a convention, a convention that is being held in a large venue of which they themselves had spent the money to rent out.

Like I said about renting out, they are going to have an English Convention being held at the venue and JW presence in Glasgow is evident, especially since there are JW churches in Glasgow and parts of the UK: July 20 to July 22 English: Glasgow: The SSE Hydro, SEC, Glasgow G3 8YW

Link to all information regarding the SSE Hydro: https://www.thessehydro.com/about

Article making mention of Jehovah’s Witnesses occupying the SSE Hydro space:  http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13176456.Scottish_Jehovah_s_Witnesses_start_preaching_in_Gaelic/

Knowing how that area is, the Watchtower is well aware of Gaelic speaking people: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/activities/publishing/scottish-gaelic-irish-welsh-translation/

The SSE Hydro is a Big deal: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30796463 as well as seen here: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-27619909

Also it is ridiculously obvious that the Watchtower has nothing to do with the games itself, again the claim of them being part of the world when the world knows Restorationist are not part of the world, Glasgow games in 2014 has listed it’s sponsors  to show for it also (http://www.glasgow2014.com/about-us/our-sponsors), but the news media has listed are groups that came AFTER the games to use the venues, well in this case, the, at the time, recently upgraded SEC, the SSE Hydro. Further proof of sponsorship regarding the sporting event (https://www.allabouttabletennis.com/commonwealth-games-2014-glasgow.html), it is also evident on their very own social media presence also.

One thing for certain, these venues, at a glance are HUGE, and it is a pretty nice area, a lot of people in this town also.

Apparently Jehovah’s Witnesses here are pretty much the old fashion type of Scottish folk, some men just like kilts, I, as a Caribbean islander, see such things as weird, but hey, I respect people who have the utmost respect in honoring their culture.

d708f8eae9af8cc498c63c6ccc46d59a--jehova

  • FACT: The SSE Hydro is a multi-purpose indoor arena located within the Scottish Event Campus in Glasgow, Scotland. The arena was initially named The Hydro after its main sponsor, energy company Scottish & Southern Energy subsidiary Scottish Hydro. The company then re-branded itself and its subsidiary companies as SSE, however the Hydro name was retained despite it no longer being a trading name. The arena was designed by the London-based architects Foster + Partners and officially opened on 30 September 2013, with a concert by Rod Stewart. Within 3 years of opening, the SSE Hydro became the eighth-busiest venue worldwide. The arena handled 751,487 ticket sales making it the eighth-busiest music arena in the world in terms of ticket sales. It also hosted the UFC's first event in Scotland – an event which was impossible to hold in any other arena in the country.
  • FACT: Attracting an audience of more than a million visitors each year, the venue is consistently ranked by Pollstar in the top 10 arenas globally, alongside iconic venues like Madison Square Garden and The O2. Since opening in September 2013, The SSE Hydro has staged the 2014 MTV Europe Music Awards, the Ryder Cup Gala Concert and the 2014 BBC Sports Personality of the Year. It was also a venue for the 2014 Commonwealth Games.

Side Facts:

  • Built on the site of the former Queen’s Dock, The SSE Hydro is the only UK venue of its scale built specifically for live entertainment. It is the largest entertainment venue in Scotland.
  • The SSE Hydro has been designed to be flexible, accommodating a wide range of concerts, conferences and events. The seats and staging can be reconfigured to provide a capacity of 12,000 (all seated) or up to 13,000 (seated and standing in performance bowl).
  • The unique façade of The SSE Hydro, made up of pneumatic translucent cushions, has been made possible by using a special film originally developed for the space industry. This allows natural light to illuminate the foyers during the day and the arena to ‘glow’ at night.
  • The SSE Hydro has a 125 metre wide roof, with the diagonally latticed steelwork forming a shallow silver dome standing 45 metres at its highest point.
  • The distinctive elliptical sloping shape of The SSE Hydro was inspired by ancient Greek and Roman amphitheatres. This shape offers the optimum balance of viewing angle and distance from the stage.

So, the following:

  • [A] The former JW not only cut the video, but also removed comments from those who spoke actual fact about the whole Glasgow thing, of which is also expressed here. Very odd. You can tell if a comment has been marked as spam, deleted, and or removed when the comment count is present on YouTube, mainly if you still have the older format.
  •  There is mention of JWs by citizens of that area, stating JWs are seen preaching to houses and having carts near public areas.
  • [C] The JWs simply rented out the venue to hold a religious convention and nothing more; the owner of the venue is SEC Limited, not the JWs.
  • [D] Such of which you have posted does not really make any proof that this faith is part of the world, these guys wouldn’t dare pick up an AK-47 to use against another person, mainly the fact such ones who are dedicated to the faith make claim to God, something that is true, being not partial, that He wants us to work and be good towards all, mainly towards those of different from us in race, nation/tribe, religion, etc. (Micah 4:2,Galatians 6:10; Acts 10:34)
  • [E] Anyone who spends money to rent a venue, a space, and or building, that money goes to the owner, thus the owner in question gains money from those who is using his and or her business and or product – the venue building itself, no different from renting out a Stadium or a small area inside of a Hotel to host an event.
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On 7/17/2018 at 5:55 AM, Space Merchant said:

Moreover, it should be known to you, even before this, that any person, group, institution and or organization can donate to any person, group, institution and or organization of their choice, which seems to be the case with Ms. Riley.

...accepting donations does not disqualify such ones from their stance of not being part of this world,

Of course, any one can donate. 

Bible words put money and material things (wealth)  in area of "unrighteous riches".

So all that i have and all that you have, are "unrighteous" by  this Bible words. So, all money that is in WT, all money that coming to WT from all kinds of sources, from members or from stocks and shares, in what ever connections might be with WT, is "bad money". Because money is satan product as Bible indicates.

So, WT Company Inc. with all sister Companies around the world, and with all other Entities that Suport WT too, with more or less responsibility, with more or less awareness, with more or less intention are involved in business, transactions, that suport this unrighteous, bad materialistic system. No matter that WT publishing and printing Bible and magazines with Gods words, because the way, mean how money circling and coming from this hands to that hands reveals that deep issue how all money and wealth  coming, in fact, from global exploration of people, JW or non JW .

We are the part of a World. WT is part of the World no matter of their claim how they not. 

Do you have ID cart? Who gave it to you?

 Do WT have ID number as private Company? Who gave it to them?

If yes.... then all who have it are part of the System. And if you are part of System you can not be without Guilt (in this matter- Economic, Money issue guilt on global scale).  

  

 

 

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4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Of course, any one can donate. 

Bible words put money and material things (wealth)  in area of "unrighteous riches".

Ok, and what you have to realize also anyone who donates can donate to a person, group, organization and or institution of their choosing. Said person, of a group or not, can also make the selected a beneficiary.

You may want to re-read those bible verses, unrighteous riches equals to those using said riches for lawless acts, this is why it is best to look into exactly what the verse says rather than taking a good guess and or mentioning just half of it, thus taking in context.

I really do not see how a group who makes books, builds churches, and preaching, is seen as lawless acts, thus unrighteous riches in terms of money usage.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So all that i have and all that you have, are "unrighteous" by  this Bible words. So, all money that is in WT, all money that coming to WT from all kinds of sources, from members or from stocks and shares, in what ever connections might be with WT, is "bad money".

Can you prove the Watchtower is an owner of stocks and bonds vs. being a beneficiary? That would be a neigh impossible task, granted with the archive of information speaks truth vs. falsehood. Again, the words of the former JW who is neutral and knows the inner workings of stocks and bonds as well as taxes, mutual funds, etc, hits harder than silver bullet.

You have to be more specific on this bad money because all those that have been listed has been mention to be false and it is only known because people are twisting the information and created conspiracy,the same can be said of the whole deal with Watchtower gaining money from Glasgow sports, for as you can see, that has been debunked to be false also.

At the end of the day, The Watchtower is merely a beneficiary. As for Mr. Zelda's response on the matter, this guy really needs to know the difference between tax returns vs. a tax return for a charitable trust (but ends up getting disgruntled ones on his side because of one thing - hate and they believe everything being said without checking the facts) - if you got former members calling this out, surely you now have a problem, your other problem is those, being former who agrees/disagrees with the Watchtower bring this truth to light because of the endless storm of conspiracy.

I am sure if you were in that position, you would make a defense to say you are a beneficiary of the Riley Trust, not it's owner, but those who dislike you will twist the information and state you are the owner, but you will have those who come in your defense, even though they are not much of a fan of you, they will still defend you. This situation has been played out in regards to the Watchtower for years and all false information embedded in conspiracy has been debunked and provide to be both false and unfounded.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because money is satan product as Bible indicates.

Really? so how are you being fed to remain alive, how are you getting clothes keeping you from roaming around in your birthday suit? Moreover, what is allowing you access to the internet by means of an ISP of which you yourself can post here on this site, mainly posting this response? Surely it isn't Satan's money you are using, and I am aware that people who are not living in 3rd world countries are practicing the Bartering System.

Money has been a form of currency for centuries, even in bible times, for it was from Satan himself, then why were the people using money, let alone those who at the time practiced free will offering of currency other than physical products, livestock and gifts?

I don't believe the Bible says anywhere that money is a product of Satan and or make an indication to such (unless you can point this specific verse out, quote it, let's have it then), let us just get that out of the way.

The Bible says the following, 2 primary verses the subject of money vs that of the secondary ones:

  • 1 Timothy 6:10 - For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

The next verse

Matthew 6:24 - “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Now let's see how it can be a root of evil. The love of money (not money itself) will result in individual(s) to do vile and the most injurious things, which is indeed fact and true. In the Bible, there are those who are indeed wealthy, like King Solomon, the riches man of the time, who has made mention to several things in regards to love of money and the intent to commit injurious things.

That men of riches tend to not really sleep as much, killing themselves to just get another dollar.

  • Ecclesiastes 5:12 - Sweet is the sleep of a laborer, whether he eats little or much, but the full stomach of the rich will not let him sleep.

Such ones are never satisfied, for it is obvious such are highly satisfied with what they have, lovers of their income

  • Ecclesiastes 5:10 - He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.

Some being tempted to even break the law itself by doing acts in order to get such wealth

  • Proverbs 28:20 - A faithful man will abound with blessings, but whoever hastens to be rich will not go unpunished.

We have seen many examples of such in Bible times, as well as in our day and age and it is ongoing.

Now we also know the Bible says this about money,

  • Ecclesiastes 7:12 - For the protection of wisdom is like the protection of money, and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it.

What is common heresy in the world of money to some people is the claim that money buys happiness and security, which we all know is just a mere placebo made by the men in the tall lofty buildings.

  • Mark 4:19 - but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

Furthermore, money, however, is an answer to every need

  • Ecclesiastes 10:19 -  Bread is made for laughter, and wine gladdens life, and money answers everything.

Money can buy the things you need in order to survive, such as food and anything in medication to aid you, mainly if you are the type to get sick easily and or get some illness as you age (2 Thessalonians 3:12). Money helps you to take care of you, should you take up a path that leads to marriage (unless you are already married) it can be used to support the both of you, should you and your wife decide to have children (unless you have kids already), the money can be used to support not just you and your wife, but your child and or children as well, thus money is used in support to help out the family, and or a community of people, as a whole. Moreover, in the Bible we see the following in 1 Timothy 5:8

But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

So should you fail in this domain, as the verse indicates, it makes you far worse than an unbeliever.

  • Luke 14:28 - For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?

We are to be using money in a way that is of approval by God the Father

  • Luke 16:9 -  And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous wealth, so that when it fails they may receive you into the eternal dwellings.

The very careful and wise use of money must be in complete honesty in usage and it is a responsibly that has to be taken very seriously.

  • Hebrews 13:18 - Pray for us, for we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honorably in all things.

We also have to avoid living beyond what we ourselves can handle in terms of using money for living and support purposes, at the same time not succumb to the likes of some in the world who are lovers of money (Hebrews 13:5) and it speaks about debt, even warns us about it (Proverbs 22:7) we also have to avoid the  impulse buying (Proverbs 21:5).

We must set things aside according to our own means and save money for what is  most important (1 Corinthians 16:2). We are encouraged to practice giving (Luke 6:38). Those who want to please God the Father must have good reason to be generous and kind, because God is said to be a lover a cheerful givers (2 Corinthians 9:7, Hebrews 13:16).

That being said, money can be used by both the righteous and unrighteous, for the righteous man will use the money to care for his family and or community, on the other side of the spectrum, the unrighteous will use money for vile things, such as lawless acts, hence unrighteous riches.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So, WT Company Inc. with all sister Companies around the world, and with all other Entities that Suport WT too, with more or less responsibility, with more or less awareness, with more or less intention are involved in business, transactions, that suport this unrighteous, bad materialistic system. No matter that WT publishing and printing Bible and magazines with Gods words, because the way, mean how money circling and coming from this hands to that hands reveals that deep issue how all money and wealth  coming, in fact, from global exploration of people, JW or non JW .

Again, the Watchtower is known as a beneficiary, if you believe as to what you are saying as truth, can you prove the Watchtower is an owner of stocks and bonds vs. being a beneficiary?

The claim of the Riley Trust and mutual funds has been made known, that the Watchtower is not an owner, as disgruntled ones of conspiracy and those accepting such conspiracy has made claim to, for the truth of the matter is the Watchtower is a beneficiary and nothing more.

If you do not know what a Beneficiary is, I will provide links and information because it would seem even nearly 2 decades later, people still do not understand:

What is a Beneficiary - a person who derives advantage from something, especially a trust, will, or life insurance policy.

The list goes on with a simple google search, mainly in the domain of investing and finance. And it is common for owners of a fund and or trust to donate the money, be it known and or anonymous to a person, group, institution, organization of their choosing.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

We are the part of a World. WT is part of the World no matter of their claim how they not. 

Do you have ID cart? Who gave it to you?

 Do WT have ID number as private Company? Who gave it to them?

Can you prove it instead of making claim? Literally we are part of the world, but when it comes to the world, but Spiritually, should you accept, we are not part of the world at all.

The talk of ID cart and or cards is kind of irrelevant to claim. Can you state the ID number of which you are referring to instead of making claim to it?

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If yes.... then all who have it are part of the System. And if you are part of System you can not be without Guilt (in this matter- Economic, Money issue guilt on global scale).  

Clearly you do not get the idea of not being part of this world even entails, the bible tells you exactly what it means to not be part of the world.

Money guilt? But the former JW who speaks of the funds in question expressed far more truth than what you are displaying here now, the same case could be made of the claim of JWs being part of a sporting event and gaining revenue from it, which has been debunked to be false information and clearly they were only there for a convention.

Again, friend, you really have to wise up on this type of information, let alone the scriptures in the Bible itself, the claim to say that money is a product of Satan irks me, at the same time to speak of such, yet founded to be using money yourself, is kind of hypocritical.

The use of money is only evil unless you make it as so, according to the Bible.

 

 

As for your other response:

Srecko Sostar - thanks for info. For that reason i was deleted my post.

 

You really didn't have to deleted, but as you know what they say, even if you delete something on the internet, it is still there. What you have deleted is still mark as December 9, 2017 and even here, July 17, 2018. For what is written in ink cannot be removed, my friend, but the correction made by means of response is of a help so next time you understand to read and research into things before jumping to conclusions, doing so only leads to problems. If you were to present that claim to the JW known as Katgar, a regular to refuting Trinitarians in the Muslims channels, he would not only correct you, but roast you up badly at the same time. Situations like this we have to avoid so research is always key to understanding something and or someone.

 

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Can you prove the Watchtower is an owner of stocks and bonds

Can you prove they are not?

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Really? so how are you being fed to remain alive

:)))) look at the birds, my Father feed them all ......

 

 

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

I don't believe the Bible says anywhere that money is a product of Satan and or make an indication to such

Does Bible anywhere said how this or that religion in our century  is product of satan ..... or of god

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Can you prove it instead of making claim? Literally we are part of the world, but when it comes to the world, but Spiritually, should you accept, we are not part of the world at all.

So you are JW who spiritually is not part of this world? That is nice.

I will provide links from Australian government site about Australian Branch. Only to illustrate, the same is around the world. Watchtower have Identity number and in this case it is Charity ABN 42002861225 (ABN is Australian Business Number), and they have additional business name - "Watchtower Travel".  Travel Company? :)))))

 https://www.acnc.gov.au/RN52B75Q?ID=91956EB4-F967-4486-8D20-89B6E9A28BCC&noleft=1

http://www.abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/42002861225

https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/bySearchId.jspx?searchId=69158541&searchIdType=BUSN&_adf.ctrl-state=ptvq0dfmh_4

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31 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Can you prove they are not?

The prove is seen in the response from the source itself, coming from a former JW who spoke of Trust, stocks and bonds information, its on page 2.The only reason I made the question directed to you because the proof of which I had spoken of has already been in full display, read the response, this goes with the same prove of the whole Glasgow thing.

25 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

:)))) look at the birds, my Father feed them all ......

I am sure the birds who fly in the heavens helped paid for your food, the clothing on your back, and internet access via ISP. God approves the way we use our money and how we work hard for it by means of our hands, the sweat of our brow an the our blood. We make money to make a living to provide, etc and we thank the Father for such because he is with us.

22 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Does Bible anywhere said how this or that religion in our century  is product of satan ..... or of god

Friend, I made this response to your response. You yourself stated the following: Because money is Satan product as Bible indicates.

 

My response was simply and clear: I don't believe the Bible says an y where that money is a pro duct of Satan and or make an  indication to such (unless you can point this specific verse out, quote it, let's have it then), let us just get that out of the way.

As for the Christendom religion, the Bible speaks of the church of which Jesus is said to be the cornerstone of, the foundation, I explained this to Witness weeks ago in regards to his post coming from Pearl of which he posted here, the only religions and or faiths that are product of Satan are those who teach nothing in regards to the First Church and or of the Early Christians, thus being accursed.

The teaching we go to an Afterlife, the teaching that God suddenly advocates for Molech worshipers, the teaching that Jesus is God, the teaching that we should intergrate the traditions of men into the church, the teachings of accepting the uninspired, the list goes on. You tell me what is is accursed and what is not, but the truth of the matter is, the Bible makes it clear and very explicit on those who adhere to the teachings and those who do not adhere to the teachings, but rather, the accursed teachings.

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Again, friend, you really have to wise up on this type of information, let alone the scriptures in the Bible itself, the claim to say that money is a product of Satan irks me, at the same time to speak of such, yet founded to be using money yourself, is kind of hypocritical.

sadly, WE ALL are hypocritical... in this way or another, more or less. :))

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8 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Friend, I made this response to your response. You yourself stated the following: Because money is Satan product as Bible indicates.

conclusion was derived from verse that claim how "satan is god of this world". If so, money is his invention. Adam and Eve have not money in their world to which JHVH was god. By that JHVH not produce money.... but fruits from a tree. :)) 

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So you are JW who spiritually is not part of this world? That is nice.

I will provide links from Australian government site about Australian Branch. Only to illustrate, the same is around the world. Watchtower have Identity number and in this case it is Charity ABN 42002861225 (ABN is Australian Business Number), and they have additional business name - "Watchtower Travel".  Travel Company? :)))))

 https://www.acnc.gov.au/RN52B75Q?ID=91956EB4-F967-4486-8D20-89B6E9A28BCC&noleft=1

http://www.abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/42002861225

https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/bySearchId.jspx?searchId=69158541&searchIdType=BUSN&_adf.ctrl-state=ptvq0dfmh_4

No, but I am very well aware of their Christology an the only reason I speak of them is because there is many misconceptions and things said of them that can and will be addressed. Example would be the whole Afterlife thing when the Bible indicates who is among the first fruits, with Jesus being the first, another example is regarding the New Covenant itself. And surely if someone says JW have guns and poisons under their churches, that has to be called out, the same goes for mutual funds and trusts. The focus is to refute falsehood, and nothing but that, as well as what is accursed, and I believe I explain to you of what community I originate from.

Other than that I have been studying the Abrahamic Religions and Islam for over a decade now, but the focus is more on Christianity, since I was brought up as a Christian to begin with. So it is no surprise if someone is making claims that do not bear any fruit, a response by means of fact, information and sources will be made, mainly when it comes to those who do not understand of how a Christian minority that is Restrationist operate - for it is no surprise to any man of who those not following the mainstream Christendom operates.

What you have posted is a charitable status of the Watchtower, their history as of said status, number, members involved as well as a list of annual reports.

Again I ask you, how are they part of this world? I have already made mention before of tax returns in Charitable trust and how the information has been twisted by those who speak of conspiracy. Plus you only brought up information solely held in the Australia location, surely you'd actually pinpoint an actual status of said group that is not a charitable status and or non-profit.

I do admire the attempt though, but again, it sheds no resolve to the foundation of which you attempt to express.

 

NOTE: I also like to point out that all persons and or groups in that Australian Registry is refereed to as Business Name with a Code to represent and ID such ones. It helps the Aussies to keep track of persons, institutions, groups and organizations in an orderly and organized fashion, perhaps even numerically so it is easier to bring up in some cases.

55 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

sadly, WE ALL are hypocritical... in this way or another, more or less. :))

So do birds really pay for your internet connection?As well as the place of your dwelling? I stated hypocritical because it has been said by you that money is a product of Satan, which is utterly false. I countered the response by saying money is used to provide and care, thus being used in a light accepted to God, but there are those who actually use the money for unrighteous things, such ones are lovers of money and thus making money master over them than God, what did you not get in the accurate response made to a claim you made?

Therefore, I can say nowhere in the Bible does it say that Money is a product of Satan, this is why I advise you to really read on the issue of money and it's usage in the Bible, otherwise you will confuse yourself in your own response.

All of us have some form of income, this includes you, me and everyone on this forum, some either independent or dependent on guardians, parents and or relatives. Money is used to support and care and unlike lovers of money, we do not do wild things to receive it, for we are hard workers of it, God knows of those who work to receive by means of their hands. Any man who commits to lawless acts in regard to money it is certain these people who partake in unrighteous riches will be dealt with.

But I do not see anywhere also in the bible that free will offering in order to further the Great Commission is consider a lawless act.

49 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

conclusion was derived from verse that claim how "satan is god of this world". If so, money is his invention. Adam and Eve have not money in their world to which JHVH was god. By that JHVH not produce money.... but fruits from a tree. :)) 

But you yourself have stated money is a product of Satan and that the bible indicates as such, need I quote you again? You also missed the point of God's approval of how we use said currency, I provided several verses already.

 

So who is telling the truth, me who says the Bible makes no indication that money is the product of Satan or you, who says the Bible indicates money is a product of Satan?

Clearly I have provided enough bible verses especially the 2 primarily ones that further proves my point.

Yes, Satan is the god of this world, this I green with you on this elementary fact, but to say Satan invented money is hypocritical, because [1] you never provided a single verse of which money is a product of Satan and [2] You ignore the fact that all men, even Jesus and his followers in that day and age had a use of currency, even before that one of the primary use of currency were pieces of gold and silver.

Of course Adam and Eve didn't have money, they were parents first parents, our first human mother and father. They did practice some form of bartering though and onward currency became a thing.

I suggest you learn more about it because it would seem you are attempting to confuse things and or not understanding well of what is being said: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2016/03/07/what-did-they-use-for-money-in-bible-times/

Also it is best to look at the currency of the Jews, a currency of which is still used even to this day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekel

 

FACT: Jesus taught that a legitimate use of money is to support the Lord's work (The Great Commission) through the religious institutions the Lord established, the early Church/Christians (Matthew 23:23; Mark 12:41-44; Luke 8:1-3).

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16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

So who is telling the truth, me who says the Bible makes no indication that money is the product of Satan or you, who says the Bible indicates money is a product of Satan?

we both! :)))

please help me to see, by your thoughts, is there something in this World that IS devil product? proved by Bible, because this is point you like to highlight - Bible verses. Thanks.

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17 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

FACT: Jesus taught that a legitimate use of money is to support the Lord's work (The Great Commission) through the religious institutions the Lord established, the early Church/Christians (Matthew 23:23; Mark 12:41-44; Luke 8:1-3).

I do not see here that Jesus support economic and money system of Jew, Greek or Roman people. He was not willing to support that. This verse "proving" my view and understanding on Jesus act: -------------But so that we may not offend them, go to the sea, cast a hook, and take the first fish you catch. When you open its mouth, you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for you” and Me.

Jesus was not voluntary or by obligation participate in paying temple tax. His reason for pay tax money was in some sort of strange reason, "to not offend them". Does he payed tax more then this one time mentioned in this verse? Do not know. But this verse telling something different in connection to your statement:  "Jesus taught that a legitimate use of money is to support the Lord's work (The Great Commission) through the religious institutions the Lord established,the early Church/Christians."

In this verse  he did contrary, he support Jew system and not "Lord's work". And as such, religious institutions aka Jew religion (or some other religious institution today), have to be, was been rejected by him and his followers, at the end of a day (or to the end of century in Romans's  siege and destruction of Jerusalem).

1.What is legitimate use of money? (by capitalist view, by socialist view, by particular religious institution view......?)

2.And would you, as beneficiary, accept money, as donation or in other forms, without knowledge and proves how donor/donors made their multiplication of money in legitimate using, way?     (Do you have interest to know is such money made in way that no one was damaged?)

How many people working for one dollar per day or less, for few cents, in one part of a world??? And in different part of the world  other people buy cheap products because of such system? And what is LEGITIMATE in that? Only laws that was product of injustice.

AND ALL THIS WAS IN DOMAIN OF WHO OWNS THE MONEY :)))))))

I do not care, at the end, is that devil's money or people's money. It is injustice! This is all about injustice, greedy, lies, manipulation ... 

 

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21 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

No, but I am very well aware of their Christology an the only reason I speak of them is because there is many misconceptions and things said of them that can and will be addressed

Please, what in JW theology exist that you do not support?

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4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

we both! :)))

please help me to see, by your thoughts, is there something in this World that IS devil product? proved by Bible, because this is point you like to highlight - Bible verses. Thanks.

No, only one of us is in the right, and you should be aware by now I do not rely on my own thoughts and reasoning, as you are doing, I rely on biblical understanding of context and very critical hermeneutics and or exegesis, I rely on historical facts and information of which the early Church followed that derive from the Bible itself, outside of the Bible, I rely on actual Christology of the Abrahamic faiths and understanding of where they come from and capable of distinguishing the truth and the accursed, as with what is true and what is false, and it should occur to you by now of how I am, granted of where I originated from since I already told you, they are quite the strict one among us also.

Now, the things that are products of Satan are the exploitation of man’s imperfection. There is war, sickness, death, and all kinds of violence. Satan’s influence is also responsible for the twisting of biblical teachings and or doctrines that is not of early church origin, the teaching that Jesus is God or the fact God suddenly is in full acceptance of what Molech worshippers practice. Satan has also tampered the scriptures in the past, 16th century, since the attempt failed in the 4th century, but later on, present day, we have people justifying the uninspired, saying Jesus saved an Adulterous woman is truth, to say the drinking of poison and not dying is truth when in reality, none of these passages originates from the oldest source that is the Septuagint. People can be corrupt, and or corrupt others by means of influence and or action, such ones are also being open and accepting brazen conduct, even to the point we now have publications in the shops that teach children that laying with someone of the same sex is okay, even worse, they teach young children that Sodomy is okay and how to do it. Man being driven to act out their impulses and or ill desire be it the killing, torture, abuse of others both young and old, in addition to taking advantage of those in order to get what they want.

Every single day, this world continues to take a shovel and dig it’s grave even deeper, but among the Utopia of which Satan is in control of, there are good people who do their best to stay away from these things, those who are unaware are also do their best to stay away from trends that promote ill intent and or practices, such ones end up being taught that such things are taking place  in the world, by those who are influenced by Satan, is clearly something they should not be a part of. On the other side of the spectrum you have the occult. Now this is far more sinister outside of the US for there are parts of the world where Satan’s sole followers being demons can influence people, parts of the Caribbean it is said that evil spirits are able to manifest in some way, shape or form, and knowing my people and the culture, this is indeed true, and a Christian Youth Club paid for that only to escape being alive. From my experience and knowledge of such as well as being an islander, I and others know things that could be kept in the dark because it is deemed way too unreal.

That being said, it is no question that Satan’s influence on people and their actions is ever so evident, but a day will come where he will be knocked off his throne that is the world and his influence will cease for good.

Other than that, I still await on your response to your claim: "Because money is a product of Satan has the Bible indicates." ~ Srecko Sostar (July 18, 2018)

Well, that remains to be seen. I can say right now that any translation can be used, but regardless, such information is not found, to change the matter into saying Satan is the god of this world, has nothing to do with the claim of your saying that money is a product of Satan. I call that hypocritical because you clearly see others in the Bible using money and the fact that Free Will Offering and voluntary donations by means of currency and or product is seen in both the Old and New Testament. You also see the fact of how the major temple in question, The Temple of Jerusalem operates regarding money donations vs. that of the practices of Pharisees, granted how large the temple is, Pharisees are around the vicinity at the time. You haven’t proven anything by using another verse to evade the first claim.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I do not see here that Jesus support economic and money system of Jew, Greek or Roman people. He was not willing to support that.

That is because you truly do not understand what is being said, I chose this fact specifically which includes those verses. Context is key, understanding of passages is crucial.

Matthew 23:23 tells us that in Jesus’ day, the actions of The Pharisees compared to those who do not do the same thing as they have done. Because they themselves assume to be doing the God’s work when they gave a tenth of all that they had (10%), they are deemed hypocrites because showed a total disregard of the Law, putting into application that is not their own. It is known as to what the Pharisees were doing, hence the call out by Jesus, the Christians themselves of that day did not do this, as I said before, the tithe does not apply to Christians at all, for the tithe was a practice solely done by the Levites, excluding the people of Abraham’s day. This verse also paints a very good example what is stated in that fact that is is very obvious that the Pharisees, even scribes, were enemies to the gospel that Jesus teaches.

Mark 12:41-44 – In this passage, Jesus is located, specifically, at the Temple of Jerusalem, the same Temple as to where he was speaking with and teaching the people. But the focus will be on this passage (which is also equal to the Luke’s witnesses as seen in the Gospel of Luke 21:1-4), the passages are identified as The Widow’s Mite (The Widow's Offering).

Jesus himself goes to where they make offerings, donations of money to the Temple (Temple of Jerusalem) as to what he sat next down to was the Treasury Chest/Boxes (also known as Treasury Chambers), and there we see a widow making an offering to which Jesus gave her praise because she has donated as seen in verse 42, that what the widow has donated is far larger than the donations made by the rich and we can see the continuation of Jesus’ response in verses 43 and 44. The Widow gives two lepta, copper coins, the smallest amount at that time. Jesus contrasts her offering as the greater sacrifice because it is all she had, as opposed to the rich persons who only gave what was convenient. Her total sacrifice foreshadows Jesus' total sacrifice of his life via crucifixion. We also find out that Jesus even makes a response to those who speak of how expensive the Temple looks, granted of what was integrated within the vast temple itself , he also makes mention that a day will come where the temple itself, if reading the passage in the gospel of Luke (referencing Luke 19:44). Those who spoke of how expensive the temple was then questioned him, and here we see Jesus speak of what is to happen, what is to come.

I am sure you are aware of what the First Temple, the Second Temple and the Third Temple is, as well as Jesus equaling such to the of another Temple – His body, The Body of Christ.

The Temple of Jerusalem had Treasury Chests. In the ancient history of the Jews, it is said say that these chests and boxes, or receptacles (Treasury Chambers), were in the shape of and/or like horns or trumpets with small openings at the top of it. People donated various donations in them, pieces of coin, copper, etc.. The total amount of Treasury boxes found in such Temples amount to 13 around the walls of the court itself. Among the 13, it’s believed that the temple contained a primary treasury chest/box where the money donations from all other the treasury chests was brought, being placed in the primary one. Granted on how big the Temple of Jerusalem was, it is no surprise that they would have this many. It is very obvious as to what they use the money for, to care for the temple itself, its people, feeding the poor and put into work of the gospel is being spread on to the people, for those who teach travel and do not travel empty handed. It should also occur to us that Jesus never hinted at His needs. Money that was given to Jesus and His disciples was held for the purposes already made known in the last sentence.

Luke 8:1-3 – Granted that in some cases, the disciples had to have some form of currency, as well as food when traveling so this alone speaks for itself. Other times they had nothing at all, mainly when sent out in twos when they had nothing, no money, food, sandals, etc. (Luke 22:35-38). Especially later on in the ministry of spreading the gospel. It is also mentioned that such ones who travel with Jesus, and even Jesus himself is shown great hospitality. Clearly going from city to city, village to village was exhausting at times and you even read that even Jesus and his disciples at times have to rest, eat, replace worn sandals for new ones, etc. Money and food pouches were also carried around with them, Jesus is said to have given such to his followers who were traveling such as a knapsack and or moneybag, and it is clear as to where such resources originated from.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This verse "proving" my view and understanding on Jesus act: -------------But so that we may not offend them, go to the sea, cast a hook, and take the first fish you catch. When you open its mouth, you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for you” and Me.

The fact that you pulled this from Biblehub and not even bothering to look at the commentary for that verse below, further proves my point. You really do not look into the context of the verse. Also you do realize you can go to the verse in question and just pick from a translation, but rather, in your case, you did a top search and manage to get the Greek - understandable, because even the Greek shows you root words and where such words are use, therefore, being able to pinpoint where the temple tax laws originate from.

The thing is friend, your view and understanding cannot be of your own, it has to be of the Bible and anything pertaining to such. You just made the claim you yield upon solely on your understanding and not of what the passage in the Bible says, that of which is the obvious, was this the same thinking that got you tricked by the whole sporting event thing? For if you understood this passages, you'd make mention of the lesson expressed here. Also remember, when you quote a verse, you provide the location of the verse, otherwise it does not sit well with you for some people.

I can say God is the God of the dead as well and not say where it is in the Bible, people will look at me crazy and or do not get what I am saying. Therefore it is always best to mention the verse, quote it, then try to explain it.

Now, the verse of which you speak (since you didn’t even address the location of that verse) is Matthew 17:27

However, not to give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth you will find a shekel. Take that and give it to them for me and for yourself.”

You make another claim and it will be addressed here: Jesus was not voluntary or by obligation participate in paying temple tax.

What you fail to see in this passage is that Matthew 17:24-27 specifically, we read that Jesus told Peter to catch a fish, open its mouth and there he would find money to pay the Temple Tax. Jesus carried no money, as we can already see, hence the early days of his ministry, for Jesus’ man base of operation was Capernaum and there is where most of his disciples came from for it is their hometown. He looked to His Father in heaven to supply His needs and we see the Father doing just that.

We see what this passage is says, there are men, religious leaders, who collect Temple Tax and confronted Peter. These men were trying to accuse Jesus for failing to pay taxes, even to the point attempting to prove Jesus’ disloyalty to the temple or His violation of the Law.

The Law of the Jews: [The temple tax was required of Jewish males over age 20, and the money was used for the upkeep and maintenance of the temple. In Exodus 30:13–16, God told Moses to collect this tax at the time of the census taken in the wilderness. In 2 Kings 12:5–17 and Nehemiah 10:32–33, it seems the temple tax was paid annually, not just during a census. This half-shekel tax wasn’t a large sum of money, but roughly equivalent to two days’ wages. According to the tractate Shekalim in the Talmud, the temple tax was collected during one of the Jewish festivals: Passover, Pentecost, or Tabernacles.]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Jesus was not voluntary or by obligation participate in paying temple tax. His reason for pay tax money was in some sort of strange reason, "to not offend them".

And you have proven yourself to no understand what is being said, let's continue:

They asked Peter as to why his teacher does not pay the two drachmas regarding the Temple Tax.

Now Jesus, back at the house, was already well aware of what has occurred. So instead of just waiting it out for Peter to this matter into conversation, Jesus tells Simon Peter what does he think of whom do the kings of the earth receive duties or head tax from, if either from their sons or from the strangers.

Peter, in response said from the strangers. Jesus, being observant said the sons are tax free. We later see that a fish on a hook with a coin in its mouth for Jesus’ Father is the King of the earth and the One who is worshiped at the temple. He also points out that since the temple was His Father’s House, that he was exempt, therefore, God’s Son is not legally required to pay the Temple Tax because he is clearly part of his Father's House.It should be clear by now as to what Jesus had said long before he was an adult, in his childhood, he made acknoledgment to the House of His Father.

  • Luke 2:48-51 - (48) And when his parents saw him, they were astonished. And his mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been searching for you in great distress.” (49) And he said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?” (50) And they did not understand the saying that he spoke to them. (51) And he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was submissive to them. And his mother treasured up all these things in her heart.

Fast forwarding to his adulthood and early days of his ministry, Jesus goes on to say to him to go to the sea, cast a fishhook, and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth, you will find a silver coin (stater, or tetradrachma) that just happens to be the correct amount for the temple tax. With this silver coin, Simon Peter is to take that and give it to them, the religious men who demanded the temple tax in the first place, not just for Simon Peter alone, but for him also – pretty much Peter paying the tax for the both of them.

The temple tax passage regarding both Peter and Jesus teaches a valuable lesson. Christians are free, but they must sometimes relinquish their rights in order to uphold their witness and not cause others to stumble. True freedom is not serving ourselves but others.

  • Galatians 5:13 - For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Even before this chapter, we also learn about Jesus’ key thoughts on money, which is presented in the Sermon on the Mount. He says to invest in the life to come (Matthew 6:19-24). We do this through giving, not a set church-tax of ten percent of our income like that of what the Pharisees practice and or the Law of the Levites itself, but with an open heart.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In this verse  he did contrary, he support Jew system and not "Lord's work". And as such, religious institutions aka Jew religion (or some other religious institution today), have to be, was been rejected by him and his followers, at the end of a day (or to the end of century in Romans's  siege and destruction of Jerusalem).

1.What is legitimate use of money? (by capitalist view, by socialist view, by particular religious institution view......?)

2.And would you, as beneficiary, accept money, as donation or in other forms, without knowledge and proves how donor/donors made their multiplication of money in legitimate using, way?

This just shows you clearly do not understand the fact that has been quoted

  • [1] The legitimate use of money is by means of aiding in the doings of the Temple. The Jews were in application of a Law that Christians were not suppose to follow, thus the very reason as to why Jesus called them hypocrites. If you missed that point, you clearly did not understand as to why this fact points to this passage.

 

  • [2] I gave you lists to what a Beneficiary is in description and information on such, it would seem you have not even read as to what such information even the investors have put out.

Perhaps this time I will quote it clearly for you:

Quote

What is a 'Beneficiary'

A beneficiary is any person who gains an advantage and/or profits from something. In the financial world, a beneficiary typically refers to someone who is eligible to receive distributions from a trust, will or life insurance policy. Beneficiaries are either named specifically in these documents or have met the stipulations that make them eligible for whatever distribution is specified.

BREAKING DOWN 'Beneficiary'

Typically, any person or entity can be named a beneficiary of a trust, will or life insurance policy, and the one distributing the funds, or the benefactor , can put various stipulations on the disbursement of funds, such as the beneficiary attaining a certain age or being married. There can also be tax consequences to the beneficiary. For example, while the principal of most life insurance policies is not taxed, the accrued interest might be taxed.

Beneficiary of Qualified Accounts

Qualified retirement plans, like a 401(k) or IRA, give the ability of the account holder to designate a beneficiary. Upon the qualified plan holder’s passing, a spousal beneficiary may be able to roll the proceeds into his own IRA. If the beneficiary is a not the spouse, there are three different options for distribution. The first is to take a lump-sum distribution, which makes the entire amount taxable at the beneficiary’s ordinary income level. The second is to establish an inherited IRA and withdraw an annual amount based on the life expectancy of the beneficiary, also known as a stretch IRA. The third option is to withdraw the funds at any time within five years of the original account owner’s date of death.

In the event the beneficiary is either an estate or a trust, the distribution rules are more limited. The stretch option is no longer available and only the lump-sum and five-year rule options are available. Any proceeds left to the estate also make it subject to probate.

A spousal beneficiary of a Roth IRA is also allowed to roll over the inherited proceeds into his own Roth IRA. For a non-spousal beneficiary, the distribution options mirror the same as inheriting a traditional IRA. The only difference is Roth IRA distributions are not subject to taxation.

Beneficiary of Life Insurance

Life insurance proceeds are considered tax-free to the beneficiary and are not reported as gross income. However, any interest received or accrued is considered taxable and is reported like any other interest received.

Beneficiary of a Nonqualified Annuity

Nonqualified annuities are considered tax-deferred investment vehicles that allow the owners to designate a beneficiary. Upon the death of the owner, the beneficiary may be liable for any taxes on the death benefit. Unlike life insurance, annuity death benefits are taxed as ordinary income on any gains above the original investment amount. For example, if the original account owner purchased an annuity for $100,000 and then passed away when the value was worth $150,000, the gain of $50,000 is taxed as ordinary income to the beneficiary.

Also your remark on Jews of today, be it Judaism based denomination is is very broken. I have knowledge in that field also, but the focus is solely on Fearon, Entities of Trust and funds with said owners and the like.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

(Do you have interest to know is such money made in way that no one was damaged?)

Granted how a beneficiary at times is unaware of what people do with a trust and or fund, things of such is evident, only the owner knows very well of what they do with their money, not the ones they donated to. Which was the case with all facts pointing to the Riley Trust where it is revealed of who the real owner is.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

How many people working for one dollar per day or less, for few cents, in one part of a world??? And in different part of the world  other people buy cheap products because of such system? And what is LEGITIMATE in that? Only laws that was product of injustice.

Nowhere have I stated that any working man or woman is one part of the world. Being part of the world requires the intake of Satan's influence itself that contributes to lawless acts and total disrespect to God's Law and the practices of the 1st century church.

As for the cheap product remark, like I said before about lawless acts, how did you miss that one?

That LEGITIMATE is the fact of how the money via donations is being used by the Temple of Jerusalem of where Jesus himself had taught. The practices of how money is handle and or used being vastly different from the hypocrites known as Pharisees and the Scribes. But clearly you do not understand a shred of what the passage is conveying, thus prompt your confusion of said massages and I chose them on purpose just to see if you understood it or not, but luckily you have someone such as myself to explain it for you, ALSO the fact that you use Biblehub, that alone could explain it to you by the number of commentaries expressed on that specific passage alone.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

AND ALL THIS WAS IN DOMAIN OF WHO OWNS THE MONEY :)))))))

Not really because in the original discussion was regarding who is the owner of what said money originates from. The claim by Fearon and his supports makes mention of Watchtower owning said entities (spreading of conspiracy) when facts and information points to them solely being a beneficiary, not the actual owner. As well a bit of Pearl's exegesis on using passages of the Bible, being used to justify a conspiracy that is found out to be 100% false. The owner in question, being Ms. Riley herself, chose to donate the amount of money to the religious group, secondary connections to Riley have donated money to other religious groups, since such were listed in connection with said owner and not the beneficiary.

Trying to make claim that the faith is an owner of said trust and or fund or the idea that somehow the faith is a sponsor and racks in money from a sporting event, which has proven to also be false, is merely secondary.

This also goes with your claims. You try to equal a Business Number and ID via links when if one links, it points to a Registry of parties added into the database and said database is solely in Australia and not globally as you allude to. In fact, there are registries out there that bear the same structural database as others, perhaps some far better than others, example would be Barclay's.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I do not care, at the end, is that devil's money or people's money. It is injustice! This is all about injustice, greedy, lies, manipulation ... 

I guess according to you it is an injustice that somehow the Devil's money allows you to be on the internet, for you make the based logic that money is a product of the devil when the bible does not say so, only you have. If we are to apply your logic on how you view things based on man's understanding of which you make application of.

Why are you using the internet, if everything in this world is of Satan, including the ISP provider, thus giving you access to the internet? The internet is of the devil, no?

Injustice? Hypocritical? Or perhaps the birds that fly near your home somehow surpassed human intellect and manage to provide you said internet on their own over than of what man has brought forth?

You fail to also see the fact that some things we use, buy and sell can be a blessing and or a curse at times, example the internet, one can read the Bible over the internet while someone else shops online, another can be looking to learn a math and or vocabulary problem for school, another guy who plays video games over the internet and lastly you have the type of persons who use the internet to seek out and divulge him in brazen practices, others who use the internet for fornication while some use said internet for crime, most of us are no stranger to what the dark web is. This equals to that of money itself, as with other things, so it is absurd to say money is a product of Satan, moreover, you have defeated your own purpose to claim in regards of those who are wealth and or not wealth on parts of the world.

You really have to think for yourself and look at what you are saying and what you are trying to say. Because right now all I see is a confused man, I really do not see how you got duped into the whole Glasgow thing and for that is shows.

Other than that, the information I provided from the bible in page 2 is accurate on all things money,

since the use of money by Jesus and his disciples was already expressed here on page 3. Perhaps this time you apply context instead doing otherwise.

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please, what in JW theology exist that you do not support?

You clearly didn't get what I have stated, but it is no surprise you are shifting things around, as seen in recent responses.

I said the following: No, but I am very well aware of their Christology and the only reason I speak of them is because there is many misconceptions and things said of them that can and will be addressed

Christology is the field of study within Christian theology itself, which is primarily concerned with the ontology and person of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels Accounts and the Epistles shown in the Greek the New Testament. The ontology and person of Jesus in conjunction with his relationship with that of God the Father. Christology is concerned with the details of Jesus' ministry, his acts and teachings, to arrive at a clearer understanding of who he is in his person, and his role in salvation. The views of Paul the Apostle provided a major component of the Christology of the Apostolic Age. To some extend at times the levels reach to based Apostolic Christology. This also connects with Exegesis and Hermeneutics in regards to Theological studies of both scripture and history of said text.

Such also falls in line with the study of religion, their theology, practices, beliefs in regards to the teachings and or the Church, of which the foundation itself is the Christ.

Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses, I studied Restorationism and Non-Trinitarianism among most, excluding my studies on Judaism, Islam, and a list of others that are not part of the Abrahamic faiths and for various reasons I have done this for nearly 2 decades despite me myself being a Non-Trinitarian Christain, for in how I was brought up is to understand where people are coming from and their conclusions. The Jehovah's Witnesses at their core are Restorationism, in a sense, primitive Christianity that has nothing to do  with mainstream Christianity that is not applying what the early church has done, but of what we see as the end result of the Council itself. This is a known fact even before they became Bible Students because over the centuries there have been Restorationist before the Movement was even executed. Such is traced by tot the early church and the Apostolic Age.

Therefore, those who adhere to the early church and its teachings and practices, I tend to have a focused study of them, and knowing what I know, people will slander and or make lies of such in order to push an accrused agenda, therefore the reason I o what I do.

If someone says a Sunni or a Shia teaches that killing is necessary for salvation, I will refute. If someone says Jesus is God, I will refute. If someone says a JW has guns kept in a church and has poisons ready to use on other JWs, I will refute. If someone says a faith got money from a sporting event, I will refute. If someone says that our Church Father's believed in something else other than the truth itself, I will refute. If someone tries to justify false and or forged bible verses that were not in the original manuscripts and or not in respects to the Strong's, I will refute. In the end it is not about agreeing and or disagreeing, it is about correcting the wrongs and speaking up in the face of misconceptions.

And at times my explanations could be long, and the person you have to thank for that can be seen in the Bible Discussion part of the forum since the both of use were speaking of Church Fathers and about the word Worship.

Out of among many things, the only plague I am in a total crusade against is mainstream Christendom and New Agers, both of which who have dismantled what the first church has established. Those who make a defense on what is seen as accursed, thus a prompt application of Galatians 1:1-11 is due. I am but one person, but since the craziness that took place mid 2015 and onward, people, like me, will refute the accursed and correct the lies and or wrongs people say of others the biggest enemy of them all it Babylon itself, which is clearly in the works since the early 2000s, not counting the whole 1920s Bailey thing for the gathering of religious leaders have not begun until the early 2000s. That being said, I am able to see clearly who is who, who is of Babylon, ho is not, who can easily be mislead by her, who is on the fence and or confused, and most of the time, the unaware ones are the one easily taken, thus my stance is clear and it is a diamond based defense because I am able to prepare myself for what is to come, this also goes in conjunction with my 100% neutrality to any man who attempts to and or is close to doing the same as the early church.

And it is clear to me you yourself is not aware of the present danger of things, mainly to how you based on your logic into the text rather than what the bible professes.

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9 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Other than that, I still await on your response to your claim: "Because money is a product of Satan has the Bible indicates." ~ Srecko Sostar (July 18, 2018)

Your thoughts answer on your expectation: 

-"..the things that are products of Satan are the exploitation of man’s imperfection."

-"That being said, it is no question that Satan’s influence on people and their actions is ever so evident,.."

If God inspired human for good deeds, i am sure you believe in this premise, then satan "influence", your word "influence", or bad inspiration on people is quite logical reasoning how he, devil is very possible source of why human invented and using money. But as i said, this is my understanding  on my way of reading Bible. And because i made my conclusion on this i have no obligation to you or anyone else to "justifies" why i came to this conclusion. That is my reasoning, true or false. Will i change that or not is matter of "inspiration" that will or will not came from "higher source". :))) 

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