reinstatement

[Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης]

My friend wanted to be reinstated last month. The reason of the DF doesn't exist anymore but Elders told him to wait for at list one year. Is that scriptural ?

[Evacuated]

The reason for the wait is what needs to be scriptural. And this a matter between your friend and the body of elders. If you are a baptized Jehovah's Witness, you should not be a party to those discussions. But it looks as if you can both look forward to your friend's reinstatement. Ecc.7:8.

[The Librarian]

@JW Insider Has the one year rule that I have heard about been around for about 10 years or so? Or am I mistaken. I have seen some reinstated in the past within months. 

[Queen Esther]

It does not give a rule for that. Our last Brother has to wait 3 years and 8 months.....  another Brother 18 months....  The last word has the Bethel, after talking with the Elders ! So I know from Germany.

[Raymond Sommerfeldt]

Several factors would need to be taken into consideration. How serious was the sin/offense? Is it well known with-in the congregation and general community? What was the attitude of the person when the person was approached either by another brother or the elders themselves? Circumstances that led up to the sin/act? There seems to be no time quota as such. In one congregation here in Tasmania one brother was re-instated after 3 months and in my own congregation, a brother had to wait for 7yrs 6 months, due to the wide spread results of his actions.  Acts of genuine repentance is the key and Holy Spirit guides the panel of elders dealing with the issue. Jehovah then is the final judge.

[housedoctor]

There is no specific time given before a person might be reinstated, It would depend on a lot of variables which only the person and body of elders would know about. For example, What kind of attitude did a person have during the meetings? Did they speak as if they disrespect the organization and the arrangement? What was the disfellowshipping for? How long was this person engaged in the activity? Were others in the congregation affected be their conduct? Is this person a repeat offender? Even if they stopped the activity, do they seem to realize the seriousness of the wrong conduct? Do they seem to be trully sorry for the misconduct? Are there any actions showing they are sincerely repentant? So to answer, every case is different.

[Joe Smith]

Luke 11:46
Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

 

According to William Barclay, the Talmud describes seven different types of Pharisees; six of the seven are bad.

 

·        The Shoulder Pharisee, who wore all his good deeds and righteousness on his shoulder for everyone to see.

·        The Wait-a-Little Pharisee, who always intended to do good deeds, but could always find a reason for doing them later, not now.

·        The Bruised or Bleeding Pharisee, who was so holy that he would turn his head away from any woman seen in public - and was therefore constantly bumping into things and tripping, thus injuring himself.

·        The Hump-Backed Pharisee, who was so humble that he walked bent over and barely lifting his feet - so everyone could see just how humble he was.

·        The Always-Counting Pharisee, who was always counting up his good deeds and believed that he put God in debt to him for all the good he had done.

·        The Fearful Pharisee, who did good because he was terrified that God would strike him with judgment if he did not.

·        The God-Fearing Pharisee, who really loved God and did good deeds to please the God he loved.

 

b. Whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do: Jesus said that respect was due to the scribes and the Pharisees; not because of their conduct, but because they sit in Moses' seat. They should be respected because they hold an office of authority, ordained by God.

 

i. "Let not the law of God lose its authority with you because of these wicked men." (Poole)

 

ii. Moses' seat: "Synagogues had a stone seat at the front where the authoritative teacher [sat]." (Carson) "The Jews spoke of the teacher's seat as we speak of a professor's chair." (Bruce)

 

c. They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders: The scribes and Pharisees were bad examples because they expected more of others than they did of themselves. They set heavy burdens on others, yet they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

 

d. Heavy burdens: The burden of the religious leaders contrasts sharply to Jesus' burden. His burden is light, and His yoke is easy (Matthew 11:30). These religious leaders were burden bringers; Jesus was a burden taker.

 

i. The first accusation against these religious leaders could apply to many religious leaders today. Many teach as if the essence of Christianity were a set of burdensome rules to follow.

 

ii. The early church rejected this legalism when it insisted that obedience to the Mosaic Law is not a foundation for the Christian life. Peter told the legalists in Acts 15:10: "Why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

 

You shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: The religious leaders kept people from the kingdom of heaven by making human traditions and human religious rules more important than God's Word. This was clearly seen in the way that they opposed and rejected Jesus; if they had opened the kingdom of heaven to men, they would have welcomed and received Jesus as the Messiah and Son of God.

You devour widows' houses: Using clever and dishonest dealing, the scribes and Pharisees stole widows' houses - careful to cover it up in the name of good business or stewardship. [A constant call for donations ...mmmm ]

You travel land and sea to win one proselyte: Their zeal in evangelism did not prove they were right with God. These religious leaders went to great lengths to win others, but they brought people to darkness, not light.

When he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves: Through their great energy they could win some, but to no lasting good to those who were won.

 

"Their business was not to turn men from sin unto God, but merely to convert them to an opinion."

 

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!"

Do you perceive something of your own behaviour in the above??

In this Organisation the RULES .....RULZ !

In the True Christian Way ............................LOVE RULZ !

[Santo Mengoli]

This is not a matter for discussion in this forum, or even between friends.  That is the Christian Way, where love rules.  There are no time rules and no Pharisaic approach.  The judicial committee will discuss lovingly with the disfellowshipped person what he needs to do to be reinstated and the truly repentant person will humbly and lovingly accept the counsel.  Discussing the matter outside of the judicial committee arrangement is not loving to the disfellowshippped person, the elders involved or our organisation.  The elders on the judicial committee, as an act of love, will not discuss the details of the case even with other elders on the body.

[b4ucuhear]

As has been correctly mentioned, there are a number of factors that come into play.  The notoriety of the infraction, the gravity of it, the level of repentance...

There is another point that could be made here that elders in particular may want to be careful over.  I have personally been on committees and know of more than several other cases where the person was wrongly removed or disfellowshipped.  When they moved to another congregation they maintained their innocence and that they were wrongly removed/disfellowshipped.  Since it was assumed that the originating letter was factual, it appeared the individuals were not humbly accepting discipline from Jehovah and remained disfellowshipped for years.  It became apparent however that the brother was doing everything he should and was faithful. To make a long story short.  The originating later was not truthful, it was malicious and we reinstated the brother immediately.  Sometimes removal or disfellowshipping has been used as a club to keep whistleblowers quite.  In one case the whole body that originated the removal/bad letter regarding the whistleblower was disfellowshipped for being involved in some very bad/immoral behaviour - as it was found out years later he was telling the truth - but it had been his word against theirs.  That is not to put into question the scriptural foundation of disfellowshipping unrepentant wrongdoers, but simply to realize that as humans, this is at times an imperfect process and at other times - although relatively rarely, used for nefarious purposes.  For those who do experience the type of things most wouldn't even want to hear about, remember who is the final judge and our dedication and loyalty is to Jehovah despite what well-meaning although imperfect (or at times wicked) men may do.  For those (most) others, remember that whom Jehovah loves, he disciplines.  Appreciate loving scriptural counsel as a gift (even if temporarily painful) that will put you on the path to everlasting life.  

[Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης]

Thank you all for your comments, but since here in Baeria where I live first we examine the scriptures, I made the question again.

http://forum.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/916-reinstatement-no2/

Dear Eoin Joyce thank you for your comment but the scriptures (Ecclesiastes 7:8) you provided was Out of topic.

Dear housedoctor many questions indeed, but you are wrong about the "There is no specific time given before a person might be reinstated". The watchtower is clear : "one year" (Watchtower 1963 Aug 1 p.473).|

Dear  Librarian thank you for your comment but again as a person from north Greece that I am, I would like some scriptural proof.

Dear anke adolphi your name means sister in my language. Nice to know that in Germany Brothers are suffering dearly but my question remains.

Dear Raymond Sommerfeldt nice to know how some Brothers are suffering down under. Since you mention that "Jehovah then is the final judge" I would like seeing you using HIS word for once.

Dear Santo Mengoli, from what you 've said I doubt if you ever read the scriptures.You say "The elders on the judicial committee, as an act of love, will not discuss the details of the case even with other elders on the body." where you found this on the scriptures? are you bringing new teachings? I suggest you to read both the old and new testament where you will find that the "judicial committees" were held in the gates of the city and later in front of all the congregation."Since the local court was situated at the city gates, there was no question about the trial being public! (Deut. 16:18-20) No doubt the public trials helped influence the judges toward carefulness and justice, qualities that sometimes vanish in secret star-chamber hearings." Watchtower 1981 Jan 1 p.17 ....also read the book new Creation pages 289-290....and the Awake magazine (8-1-1947 p 27).

Dear b4ucuhear thank you for admitting that you was an elder and in many cases you wrongly removed/disfellowshipped brothers. in a case like this and because the flock belongs to Christ I think all elders responsible for the lose of even one of the little ones know exactly what to do. (If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea) - Matthew 18:6, Luke 17:2, Mark 9:42.

[b4ucuhear]

On February 22, 2016 at 17:25, b4ucuhear said:

As has been correctly mentioned, there are a number of factors that come into play.  The notoriety of the infraction, the gravity of it, the level of repentance...

There is another point that could be made here that elders in particular may want to be careful over.  I have personally been on committees and know of more than several other cases where the person was wrongly removed or disfellowshipped.  When they moved to another congregation they maintained their innocence and that they were wrongly removed/disfellowshipped.  Since it was assumed that the originating letter was factual, it appeared the individuals were not humbly accepting discipline from Jehovah and remained disfellowshipped for years.  It became apparent however that the brother was doing everything he should and was faithful. To make a long story short.  The originating later was not truthful, it was malicious and we reinstated the brother immediately.  Sometimes removal or disfellowshipping has been used as a club to keep whistleblowers quite.  In one case the whole body that originated the removal/bad letter regarding the whistleblower was disfellowshipped for being involved in some very bad/immoral behaviour - as it was found out years later he was telling the truth - but it had been his word against theirs.  That is not to put into question the scriptural foundation of disfellowshipping unrepentant wrongdoers, but simply to realize that as humans, this is at times an imperfect process and at other times - although relatively rarely, used for nefarious purposes.  For those who do experience the type of things most wouldn't even want to hear about, remember who is the final judge and our dedication and loyalty is to Jehovah despite what well-meaning although imperfect (or at times wicked) men may do.  For those (most) others, remember that whom Jehovah loves, he disciplines.  Appreciate loving scriptural counsel as a gift (even if temporarily painful) that will put you on the path to everlasting life.  

 

5 hours ago, Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης said:

Thank you all for your comments, but since here in Baeria where I live first we examine the scriptures, I made the question again.

http://forum.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/916-reinstatement-no2/

Dear Eoin Joyce thank you for your comment but the scriptures (Ecclesiastes 7:8) you provided was Out of topic.

Dear housedoctor many questions indeed, but you are wrong about the "There is no specific time given before a person might be reinstated". The watchtower is clear : "one year" (Watchtower 1963 Aug 1 p.473).|

Dear  Librarian thank you for your comment but again as a person from north Greece that I am, I would like some scriptural proof.

Dear anke adolphi your name means sister in my language. Nice to know that in Germany Brothers are suffering dearly but my question remains.

Dear Raymond Sommerfeldt nice to know how some Brothers are suffering down under. Since you mention that "Jehovah then is the final judge" I would like seeing you using HIS word for once.

Dear Santo Mengoli, from what you 've said I doubt if you ever read the scriptures.You say "The elders on the judicial committee, as an act of love, will not discuss the details of the case even with other elders on the body." where you found this on the scriptures? are you bringing new teachings? I suggest you to read both the old and new testament where you will find that the "judicial committees" were held in the gates of the city and later in front of all the congregation."Since the local court was situated at the city gates, there was no question about the trial being public! (Deut. 16:18-20) No doubt the public trials helped influence the judges toward carefulness and justice, qualities that sometimes vanish in secret star-chamber hearings." Watchtower 1981 Jan 1 p.17 ....also read the book new Creation pages 289-290....and the Awake magazine (8-1-1947 p 27).

Dear b4ucuhear thank you for admitting that you was an elder and in many cases you wrongly removed/disfellowshipped brothers. in a case like this and because the flock belongs to Christ I think all elders responsible for the lose of even one of the little ones know exactly what to do. (If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea) - Matthew 18:6, Luke 17:2, Mark 9:42.

 After reading your post, I read mine over and can see where it may have been a bit confusing. To be clear, I was dealing with REINSTATING (not removing) individuals who had been wrongly disfellowshipped by men who had something to hide and we reinstated them immediately when we had the facts. There was no mention in my reply that "as an elder you (we) in 'many cases' wrongly removed/dis fellowships brothers."  I believe I expressed that this type of situation is the exception rather than the rule - "relatively rarely."  I say "relatively" rarely because while rare in comparison to the total number, it is far more than most people would be comfortable with and not all that unusual if you've had enough experience.